FL school shooting - NON-POLITICAL
 

here we go, yet again. We live in a large free country with many diverse people, and some have serious mental or social issues. As is the case in this latest one.

I am a true Independent and believe in different sides of all issues facing us in the USA. But the gun issue is one that I have steadily moved to the "Something has GOT to be done" side. Seems as if the Gun Control laws in many areas such as Chicago do not work. Perhaps it's enforcement matter or simply the Black Market or purchasing elsewhere and bringing them into the 'war zone'.

What truly saddens me is the easy availability of semi-automatic weapons and mass lethal ammo. How these weapons can be obtained at gun shows etc without checks or such is maddening. No idea where this perp got his weapons - or how he afforded them. But he did and apparently many knew he had them.

Then we come to the Social ills. Mental issues. Little family structure. The violent video games. And more..

Apparently this young man has had multiple run-ins, friends knew of his issues, social media postings and such.

We can protect our schools and buildings just so much. If they want to get in they will. And now - the fire alarm matter - what to do now...how to have students obey an alarm or not??? How can students concentrate on classes?

Sad for our country and the people that were impacted by this and other events. But one thing for sure this will be a big topic for weeks....then a memory....then another. repeat - UNTIL SOME PEOPLE CAN MAKE REAL CHANGES THAT HAVE SOME IMPACT.

Will be a topic for far less than weeks.........

Unfortunately, so true. As a nation we have become immune to violence even when it comes to killing children! Sad commentary on our country!

I couldn’t disagree more.

No event stays in the forefront forever. That doesn’t mean it is forgotten. Our country sincerely grieves and mourns greatly every incident. And tries like heck to do something about it.

But it’s a very difficult problem with no easy solution. And no solution will eliminate all acts of senseless violence.

I don't think any of us reading this have become immune to violence. WHAT to do about it? We cannot lock up all mentally ill people. If we start removing guns from people who own them, we would get those from people with ethics. Only.

I think assault rifles should not be sold anymore. There is NO WAY we can remove them from the hands of people who have them. As for mental illness? That is the hardest problem to solve, not only who are mentally ill, and how sick are they, but who are a potential threat and who are not. I find this man Nicholas Cruz had a lot of things unusual happen to him. He was put up for adoption by his birth mother and he and his biological brother were adopted by Roger and Lynda Cruz. They had just moved to Florida and never had children. Roger Cruz died when Nicholas was six and Lynda died just this past November from Pneumonia at 68. Nicholas had been identified with an Autism Spectrum disorder as a young child. In November Nicholas went to live with friends of his family and they were aware he had an assault weapon.

He will be held accountable by the law and he should be, in my opinion.. I wonder what could have been done to avert this disaster? What could we do differently? I think the answer lies in how and who are raising little humans and how they are doing it. People often turn over their children to people who they would not give their car keys to. Children are taught right and wrong when they are under the age of five, or they absorb it from the people who are with them. Parents are assuming the role of indulging grandparents because they are not with their children as much as our generation was.

But that is MY opinion and it is only one factor in this worrisome, heartbreaking mess.

I personally believe we need to be more responsive to individuals who exhibit, or proclaim to commit violence.
As I read this morning the FBI was made aware of this individuals claim to become a professional school shooter....plus other inputs from students and teachers.

I also believe we have progressed to the point of being so litigious about anything and everything to a point where enforcement has far too much potential to become compromised as a result.

The issue is not just gun or mental illness... enforcement intimidation is a serious contributor.

When you look at ALL our politicians news media I mean all everyone.
They set no example for today's youth.
They conduct themselves like bullies with demeaning and demoralizing conduct and when an incident of this magnitude occurs they say .
They look at each other like deer in a headlight and say
What could possibly make an individual act in such a manor ?

Too many questions would take a book but
 

Under our legal system, you cannot be arrested because someone thinks you might commit a crime. In this case the perpetrator was 18. Some of you seem to think we should arrest all 18 year olds. In reality, if I recall most violent crime is done by people under 25-an easy solution. YES, it does get ridiculous.

As to stated ASSAULT RIFLES. Sadly, this term is MISUSED by people lacking in knowledge. It is not the fault of the people but the fault of the press OK THE LIBERAL PRESS with an anti-gun bias. PLEASE LOOK IT UP. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD. An assault rifle, a word a phrase that many will parrot, is by definition an automatic weapon. You pull the trigger and it keeps shooting. IT IS ILLEGAL TO OWN ONE AND HAS BEEN SINCE ABOUT 1920.

We all, including me, have after the event from the safety of our homes have all kinds of suggestions. TRUTH is that it is after the fact in a state of safety. LIFE IS A RISK.
The good news is that the crime rate is actually down since the 1920's. The crime rate in the US is actually going down. Laughing a bit but since young people commit most violet crime, what we know is that our population is aging.

Unfortunately, too many politicians are beholden to the NRA to make a needed change.

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These shootings happen in gun-free zones. Teachers and school staff should be allowed to conceal carry in schools, after they obtain the proper training. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. My thoughts and prayers are for all those affected by this horrific event in Broward County.

This may not be a political post but this needs to be addressed to your politicians since they are the only ones who can do anything about it. We can discuss it ad nauseum but it is not going to change anything.

Very debatable.
What’s your point?

Making more laws is ineffective. Laws don't prevent crimes, they define crime and provide for punishment if the perpetrator is caught. This guy violated many laws including having a firearm on school property. Making the school a gun free zone did not stop this crime. More laws will not stop other crimes. Making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain firearms that they want to have for personal protection won't stop criminals from obtaining firearms illegally. Limiting magazine capacity won't do anything as mags can be changed in a second or less. Banning "assault weapons" was tried and was ineffective, especially since there is no real definition of an assault weapon. Should we ban all semi-automatic weapons? That would involve banning 95% of all the guns that are out there. Then criminals would find a way to get them illegally and law-abiding citizens would be at a disadvantage.

If these killers can't get a gun legally, they will get one illegally, If they can't get a gun, they will find a way to make homemade bombs.

My solution would be to make it mandatory that all teachers, be licensed, trained and armed while at work.

It's a requirement for the police who protect us elsewhere. Why not make it a requirement for those entrusted with protecting our children?

In the case of yesterday's shooting, there was an armed officer at the opposite end of the school. There is no way for one or two officers to be everywhere and it's not often not possible for them to get to a scene in time. In this case, the shooter was familiar with the school and might have selected the location because he knew that the officer would not be close by.

Semi-automatic handguns can also fire 45 rounds a minute. Should we ban those also?

It might help when talking about gun laws that one knows a bit about guns. Do you think that banning AR-15s will prevent criminals who want one from getting one?

Reports in the last few hours indicate the shooter was involved with a white supremicist group.

Alleged Gunman Nikolas Cruz Was in White Supremacist Group | Time

Florida school shooter belonged to white supremacist group, leader claims | TheHill

While I endorse making it more difficult to buy guns, I do agree that we should be looking more "inward" to address the hate that preoccupies our country, and certain of us that have a need to express our hate for groups, etc.

Social media is giving a platform to so many "haters" among us, who in a hateful manner simply reject other human beings. Many have, and will, take that hate to the next level.

Gun control..sure. Hate and visicious conversation is a refelection of what is happening in our country.

There has been immunity to violence around for a long time.
Many years ago I used to drive into Chicago from the suburbs daily.
I would listen to the news on my car radio,
and one monday morning a newscaster said there
were seven shooting deaths
over the weekend.
The thought occurred to me that this happened so often,
that people just accepted it as a way of life.
And sadly it still goes on!

Sadly these types of incidents have been on the rise and I fear it will only continue to get worse. I see two key reasons that back up my statement. First off, these sick individuals are attracted to the possibility and power of inflicting mass casualties. Doing so gives them a very powerful feeling, gets more media coverage, makes a bigger impact, and drives their own infamy. Secondly, our lax gun laws essentially make it very easy for them to purchase the very tools needed - semi-automatic, fast firing weapons with high capacity magazines. Firing 45 rounds a minute has the potential to inflict much more damage than 6 or 8 rounds a minutes or a small clip that requires reloading after a few shots.

I question the real need in a public realm for semi-automatics (rifle OR handgun) and don't consider sensible limitations any infringement on 2nd amendment rights. It just seems that if you take away the ease with which someone can carry out a mass shooting then it's reasonable to think the number of these will go down. Could an alternate arise, such a s homemade bombs? Sure but I think this is harder to carry out and also the damage potential is likely more limited and may even be more likely they'd be caught before carrying it out.

We must put politics aside and in some case make compromises for consideration of safety in this crazy world. There are many, many responsible gun owners out there but availability and accessibility to these mass casualty weapons, to me, are a simple place we can start in trying to reduce the number of children and innocent people that are getting slaughtered. How those guns are restricted or limited is open for discussion but more guns doe not equal a safer world. It just doesn't work that way and countries all around the world have already proven that.

OK so how do you feel that this can be resolved without legislation?

I have also read that he READ things from Militant Islamic groups too. I don't know if that means he was involved and I am not defending him.

I have never, ever, in my entire life met anyone who was a KKK supporter. The Southern Poverty Center says that there are less than 5000 of KKK people in the United States and that is 5000 too many.

When we exaggerate any fact, we add fuel to hatred and become part of the problems of the world.

Obviously I was not clear with my post.

While I read nothing about any Muslim groups ever...my post has NOTHING to do with Muslims or the KKK at all, as you turned it.

I simply was pointing out that our country is so involved in hate, no it matters not who you hate, but the key is our society has become...let's say..."NOT TOLERANT" of anyone who might not have the same feelings as others

Social platforms allow an outpouring of this hate, and if anyone is "on the edge", the constant "hatespeak" will effect them and perhaps move them to this kind of action.

My mind NEVER went to any specific group as yours did, and whether you were "defending" anyone or anything means little.

We are a country that just have stopped understanding or even trying. We just verbally show hate, and some WILL take it to more than just words.

That was not my point. Heck, more kids have been killed in school shootings than by terrorists, BY FAR. I am sure I am not verbally qualified to get my meaning across, but let's understand...our country is filled with hate...we need to recognize those who show signs of turning the hate into action.

Again, my entire purpose was to agree with those who say that reducing guns alone will not solve the problem. These are children....we, as adults should show some qualities that they should aspire to. These children have no knowledge of politics BUT they sure can identify hate.

Firing 45 rounds a second

Uh no

Nothing will change anything. Mental illnesses and mental disorders will never ever be erased from this earth. We cannot arrest anyone unless a crime is actually committed so identifying predictors would be only useless.

Other countries have had good success with addiction, mental health and gun violence. But people in our country are more interested in rights than responsibilities.

Obviously i disagree. Only one post even ventured near political talk.

Killing our children is NOT controversial, or at least I do not think so. If those who make the laws will not discuss it, and we are told it is "controversial" then where are we.

Some think is all about guns....others think it is all about mental health, and others, my self included, feel it is a combination of the two, but if where are going to ignore it and bury our heads, more children are destined to die.

Words will never solve this problem, but based on our history, once the words stop, it all stops.

Why even take a chance at having your grandchildren go through what those kids went through yesterday ?

Everyone gets all "bent out of shape" when americans take to the street to march for a cause yet they refuse to even entertain the idea of, in this case, a discussion of and modification of gun laws or mental health laws, BOTH OF WHICH by the way are overwhelmingly supported in all polls I have ever seen.

I still believe that our society has become blind and deaf to anything and any disagreements are not discussed but simply met with more "hate speech" defined as "speech expressing hatred of a particular group of people"

Our young kids deserve better. They look to adults to provide some kind of structure.

I, for one, am sick of seeing kids suffer like this. I think there should be a national conversation and if "gun control" is an offensive term to some, make it a conversation on "protecting our children from death AT school"

The frustration is building in this country. Lots of Americans are simply ignored and dismissed. This is an important issue in this country and to simply say, "lets not talk about it" is not something we want to pass on to our kids. The young kids will learn history in school. They look to the so called adults.

This can be discussed without poliltics and if it cannot then perhaps those who cannot should examine themselves just a bit.

Thus far this year, 18 school shootings and in this short century we have lost to bullets over 300 children simply because they went to school that day.

THAT is not political nor is it "controversial" in my opinion. Children, not at war....Children, not in a war zone....some how it seems we need to have this conversation.

I agree that perhaps TOTV is not the proper place, but it is NOT political and every forum in this country should be talking about it, not in a political way but with real feelings for our precious children.

Philip Mudd, last night had to leave the set because of his tears.

He is former national director of the National Security Branch, and the first ever, and that only means he has "been around the block" a few times.

He said..."“A child of god is dead. Can not we acknowledge in this country that we can’t, we cannot accept this?”

"“We refuse to accept that we can learn from other countries,” he added. “It’s not that complicated.”

This is NOT political, or at least should not be, and again....I am not speaking of GUNS ALONE....but....

Protecting our children in school and help in providing example.

This sounds eminently logical to me. But the NRA will tell you that more guns in more hands will make us all safer. You can't predict when somebody who is OK today may go off the deep end in the future. That's why you have to be reasonable in what tools are available to the citizens to do harm.

The poster that shows how weapons have evolved over 200 years makes a good point. Add to that there are many more citizens now and we've become an urban society, and the situation is totally different than when the bill of rights was written. But I suppose we'll just continue to send our thoughts and prayers because that's easier than having a mature, logical analysis and perhaps making some changes.

Seriously? You need to re-read your first post. (post#15) You specifically brought up white supremacists. That is a group, right? Unless you are referring to something else, your statement in bold above makes no sense.

To Gracie's point, I also read where the gunman's social accounts showed a fascination with Isis/Islamic extremism, but to be honest I just glossed over it because I don't believe enough evidence is available yet to prove anything regarding any affiliation with any group.

Well stated. :thumbup:

The other important thing that some people have a problem grasping is that the KKK is only one....of many hate/white supremacist groups.

In fact, the SPLC has identified almost 1,000 different 'hate' groups.

And the focus of these groups hate, runs the gamut from religion to skin color to yes...even politics (regardless of which side of the aisle one stands). :ohdear:


Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center


In this latest atrocity, one has to ask how someone who is three years away from legally purchasing alcohol...can legally buy a weapon that is primarily meant for only one purpose? :shrug:

One big roadblock to an honest discussion....NRA $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Please point me to the post claiming..."45 rounds a second."

Thank you. :ho:

And as you know, the same thing has been said about sending 18 year old's to war.

It is confounding - too young for one thing but not the other?

My point was and still is, that blurb about that group shows interest in hate, and to me represents what is happening to our society. It could have been ANY HATE GROUP involved, but our children being interested into hating is, TO ME, symptomatic of the societal differences.

I never indicated anything else but his interest in hate groups.

You guys want to make politics...I want our children to be safe, and frankly how that happens, as long as it does, will be fine with me.

I certainly can pull my references if that would have people worry about the kids and drop the politics.

That is absolutely at the heart of the problem. :thumbup:


An old colleague that I am still in contact with on Facebook and whom I never realized felt so strongly on the matter until about 6 months ago...told me that he believes people should be allowed to own ANY weapon.

He specifically said..."even bazookas/RPG's/Etc."

The saddest part, is that he is far from alone in that view. :ohdear:

I heard this today, not sure where....

If there were 18 Cessna plane accidents killing people since the beginning of the year, there would be instant investigation and discussion.

Why cannot adults talk about protecting children in school ? No finger pointing, no politics.

Why is that difficult ?

I think we're all worried about the kids. It doesn't have to be and shouldn't be about politics in any way, shape, or form. But unfortunately, because it deals with laws, that's where a discussion like this will probably end up. And I don't think either side of the debate is all right or all wrong. There is much to be considered along that line when terrible situations like this happen.

In the meantime, I think we can all agree that this gunman committed an evil act and he should be dealt with in the most severe manner possible.

Unfortunately the subject cannot appropriately be addressed in full without airing the political impacts, that most definitely define where we are and are not on the subject of appropriate gun ownership and use.

Hence, confined to NO POLITICS...no real progress can be made in any discussion.

To a large extent you are correct, but I just got to thinking what could be discussed is the heroes in all of this. As the story unfolds, we are learning more about the selfless acts of some real heroes.

Also found it interesting on one radio show that I was listening to this morning, the host of the show stated that he would not say the gunman's name. He said it was in an effort to NOT give him any publicity or notoriety on his show and that he would only be spoken of as the gunman who murdered 17 people today.

Two of the cable news networks will also not mention the shooters name.

I haven't gotten around to any television watching yet today so wasn't aware. Good to know - thanks.

Good for him. They should ignore the gunman and speak of the heroes. They are like piranhas dissecting every detail and sticking their microphones in the faces of those traumatized.