Guns in Schools
 

Not sure how long this thread will last, but here I go:




Should trained teachers be able to carry a gun in schools???




Hate to at this point, but I would support trained teachers carrying to protect my children / grandchildren.


:popcorn:

I've thought about this a lot and am very hesitant.

Training sounds great but to actually become proficient in a combat situation takes a whole lot more than sending someone to a weekend class. How much training is the school willing to provide? How much training are the teachers willing to go through?

Will the teachers be indemnified for their actions when they screw up?

Most of the schools in the area I live have been somewhat hardened. Meaning you have to go through a door or gate to gain access. They also have at least one Sheriff Deputy on campus during school hours.

I think in some cases where a teacher might be a vet or former LEO it might work. But I'm still skeptical on whether teachers can actually receive adequate training and maintain the level of competence required to perform when the SHTF..

I don't see any reason to modify the gun laws for schools. Just enforce the laws equally for everyone throughout the state. Creating gun free zones or special rules for schools is a mistake, especially creating "gun free" zones.

My fear would be keeping them away from the kids.

In the words of those that want to take guns and the Second Amendment away;
"if it saves the life of just one child".
The same can be said for arming teachers and faculty.

As to this;
"They also have at least one Sheriff Deputy on campus during school hours."
How'd that work at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School?

As per the new Florida (passed) legislation;
"Under the program, teachers would need to pass a 144-hour training course before they could be armed. Employees at schools in 40 of the state's 67 counties have already either enrolled in that course or plan to do so."

"By law, school guardians must undergo a psychological evaluation and complete at least 144 hours of training, including 104 hours focused on firearm use. The remaining 40 hours are split between trainings on diversity, legal issues, defensive tactics and active shooter situations."

104 hours focused on firearm use............... that is very extensive training.
Oh yeah....I am for arming teachers and faculty......if it saves just one child............
Steve

Sounds like a comprehensive program. I hope it achieves what they want it to..

The arming of teachers won't be involuntary, they will have to be willing volunteers. I'm sure there are going to be psychological evaluations to determine their fitness to be entrusted with a firearm in the classroom. I don't believe there is any intent by anyone to allow wannabe Rambos turned loose with firearms. The amount of training required is pretty extensive and should provide a good basis for a teacher to be effective and safe. Our grandchildren went to high school with over 2,500 students in a very large building that would have taken many police officers to properly secure. I doubt there is any school with a budget that could pay for that level of security and neither do the police departments.

As a teacher for 30 plus years and a competitive member of the hand gun club of my university I say; No! Guns, grenades and bombs have no business in the classroom.

With all due respect, why?
Steve

Edit to say I agree with the grenades and bomb thing. That's just silly to let teachers and faculty have those.

I've talked to a few teachers, not in Florida but friends that still live up north. If they had the choice they would carry. It's not only the kids in danger, it is also the teachers and being the adults in the room they feel an obligation to protect their kids and that could mean getting between the shooter and the kids. I think we sometimes forget about the teachers in those situations. I'm in favor of allowing those that want to carry and go through the psychological testing and the extensive training should have that option.

Dangerous for many reasons. A teacher concentrates on teaching, they are trained to educate. They are not security guards, they are not army or police. We have had education in many countries for centuries. Can you name one place that arms their educators in their school system?

You better be trained very well and in constant training. Do you know how hard it is to hit a moving object? We used to compete with our local police in training. And the probability of hitting a child in the shoot out...

I'll vote no. Should be active or retired LEO's.:boom:

Yes, unequivocally. But, as I was trained as a LEO in the use of a firearm, they should also have extensive training to include quarterly qualification in the use of the weapon.

See my post above.

Extensive training is a prerequisite.
Also...who shoots up schools? .....kids....wacked out kids! No military training,... well...no training at all....just screwed up kids with serious problems..
First responders, well trained teachers, faculty are the the best and first line of defense.
Steve

Again I ask....why?
Steve

Teachers are there to teach and not to guard the school. Anybody who thinks this will solve violence in the school is just “barking up the wrong tree.” IMHO. In short, I think it’s a bad idea to put that type of responsibility on the teacher even if they volunteer for the task. Best that money be spent on other things like mental health, counseling and professional trained police.

Nobody said arming teachers and faculty will "solve" violence in schools. We are talking about eliminating and maybe avoiding the casualties in the case of an active shooter in the school. I would love to hear viable options, of which I am hearing none.
Steve

And again I ask....how well did that work at Majory Stoneman Douglas High??
Steve

The answer is education. Anti-bullying. Teaching tolerance understanding differences. Guidance counseling, social outreach.
My SIL taught “alternative” kids in high school, the homeless, the drug users, the lost ones. She’d take them home sometimes teach them how to do laundry, how to make a meal. Several of her students became very successful, one is a well known film director in Hollywood. She gave them an alternative.
What I am trying to say is the answer is not to shoot the shooter, but to give a reason for the shooter not to want to shoot in the first place.

Sounds good. When someone is standing there with a gun to harm you, you need more than education.

So what are you supposed to do when
that "one" falls through the cracks and starts shooting? You shoot the shooter...
eliminate the threat....period.
Steve

Guns are not the only way. We had an incident at my school several years ago. Our librarian was from Israel and she had Mossad training, she didn’t need a gun or a knife or anything else to disarm anyone. She solved our problem without incident.
You can train people in other ways besides guns.

I would love to hear more of this "incident"

Steve

Like that suggestion. You are also putting a teacher and her students into a combat situation with no idea how anyone will actually perform.

Have more trained maybe ex-service people who have actually been in combat in some form or another protecting schools. That also might deter some shooters.

And the the use of none lethal force is also a good idea as suggested by another poster.

More peer-to-peer counseling and anti-in person and cyber bullying approaches to preventing violence.

A person was seen arming himself in the boys washroom on the second floor by a student. The PA immediately gave the school wide signal for lockdown. All students had to get away from doors and windows and stay under tables etc The doors were locked, the lights shut off. Everyone had to be silent.

I was at the end of the hall 2 doors from the boy’s washroom. I watched through the window of the classroom door as the slight librarian walked from her library at the other end of the hall bare handed and enter the boys washroom. I remember I said a prayer. My students were silent and still. I reassured them. What seemed like a long time later we were given the all clear.

I heard stories later how she disabled him but no other detail was given. She did not talk about it. I always thought it had to be a combination of talking him down and possibly use of martial arts.

Due to the national teacher shortage, there are many many adults in classrooms "teaching" with no educational background...
no child psychology courses; no pedagogy courses; no training on how to actually teach. Yet they "teach" on a daily basis.

Starting teacher pay and benefits in most states equal approximately what a manager at a fast food restaurant earn (with no college degree). The Villages Charter school pays teachers $40,000 a year.

Why on earth would anyone WANT to go to college to teach AND carry a gun?

What kind of person will teaching attract?

A compassionate one who looks out for students best interest or Rambo looking for his next fight?

I am 100% for safety and security for our most precious and vulnerable citizens (children), but arming teachers is not the answer.

Hire more security. Bring in professionals who have made it their life mission to serve and protect.

Let teachers teach kindness and problem solving and teamwork and Math and whatever subject area they excel in.

Leave the police work for police.








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What is not understood by some here is.....
If there is an active shooter in the school....what are you going to do? What are your options? If you have a firearm on you person, what would you do? Would you fight or flight? Me? Even without a weapon to minimize the threat, I would fight until my last breath to save as many children as I could, that's just my training. .........what would you do?
Steve

What would I do? At the very least, the same instinct as a mother would have.

Fight? Till your last breath? Even if it meant deadly force with a firearm, if available?
Steve

I'm done with this conversation for tonight.
Good night all.
Steve

Especially if the armed individual is one of my students (and I consider every student in my school as my student) I do not see them as someone that I would kill, but I would do whatever I could to stop the person from hurting my other students.

Steve, spend more money on more school counselors and professional law officers as opposed to arming the teachers who are hired to teach and hopefully be role models for the students. I see all kinds of problems and issues. Where is a teacher going to keep his weapon and ammunition locked up safely somewhere in the classroom? It’s going to take time to get the weapon. Is this going to be a hand gun vs. an assault weapon or is the teacher also going to have the same type of weapon? Better background checks? That ship sailed . Perhaps ban semi automatic assault weapons for sale and what is the chance of that happening? The majority of Americans are in favor of banning certain Weapons for sale but the majority has lost that fight. The “bad guys” are likely to have one anyway or maybe even a bomb or two. Can you imagine a scenario when children are accidental injured or killed by friendly fire from a teacher. No, let teachers do the job that they were hired and trained for and trained Officers do the job they were hired to do. :ho: My hats off for both teachers and law officers.

:agree:

For a teacher, or anyone with a CC............the gun is the last resort.



It's not a fix-all, one more level of protection for teachers, staff & students.


I assume there is a representative percentage of teachers/staff who CC permits already. Still, more training.........but there is a level of comfort already.

I'll break this down piece by piece.
More money for counseling? I agree.
More law officers? I agree.
As for where would teachers keep the weapon and ammo? Concealed on their person and easily accessible. The students would never know who or where. I carry on a daily basis, concealed and easily accessible, no one knows.
A hand gun vs. an "assault weapon" (which is a misnomer, it's actually a modern sporting rifle). Better something than nothing.
I personally do not believe the stats on "the majority" of Americans wanting to ban certain firearms. Where does the "banning" stop?
Please tell me a viable option if there is an active shooter in the classroom, where there are no "professional law enforcement around.

I'm going to skip out on this conversation for now. I've made my feelings well known here and I would just be beating a dead horse.
I do value everyone's opinion. You will not be able to satisfy everyone's feelings when it comes to the safety in the schools.
Steve

The specifics are open for discussion, but every law enforcement agent that I've ever spoken with says that the only way to solve the problem of school shootings is to harden the targets.

IMHO, having one or two armed guards on campus won't do it. Some schools are very large and by the time an armed guard can go from one end of a campus the other is too late.

Having armed personal at every location whether they be teachers, administrators or outside people will first of all deter many would be shooters from attempting a shooting. In the case of an attempt they would minimize the damage.

That is definitely a good idea. They should try everything and anything that might reduce the number of these school shootings and keep teachers/students safe.

Go at the problem from every conceivable angle.

How will the first responders to a school shooting be able to tell the bad guy(s) from the armed teachers?

Very Controversial Subject but very important. I fully support the idea of Trained Teachers Carrying in School.

Many people haven't been back in any school since they graduated. I remember East Side High School in Paterson N.J. where the inmates took over the High School. Joe Clark was a tough guy who liked the camera but was in love with the idea of security. I wonder what he would say to this question? I have no doubt it would be Pro Security. That was many years ago and things have not gotten better since then. I was in that school almost every day, it wasn't good.

A person's point of view can and will be skewed dependant on the environment they are thinking about. Are they envisioning Mayberry, Little House on The Prarie or the reality of the Inner City and Schools like the ones in Connecticut?

If you're betting my families life on Gun or No Gun, Strap Up The Teacher! Train Them The Best You Can! Hope for a Positive Outcome in a Bad Situation. :pray: