Good Nucky. What might work in some school in Texas in a rural area might not be a good solution in a New York City public school. Local gun culture should also play a role. I had a 12 gauge shotgun by age 12 or so while growing up in Reno, Nevada and one of my "friends" shot me in the left pinky with a BB gun after he had been pointing it at my eye. I asked him to try shooting between my fingers. He missed. That was the end of that "friendship".

And where do we stop? Do we arm the bus drivers too? And the shoppers as many shootings up north take place in malls. Should we arm everyone, go back to the old West style? What kind of society would that make, armed and fearful?

What if it was your child or mine, your grandchild or mine who was the “bad” guy?

I understand the fear that drives a parent to protect, I just think that we have to do better.

Old west style?
 

The old west style existed only in John Wayne movies. The hero would shoot a hangman's rope from 1000 yards away mounted on a horse with his trusty colt 45 pistol. Pistols were expensive.
Most people were armed with shotguns.

Like most things my view is freedom of choice and responsibility for your actions.

I agree with a whole lot of what you have shared. You have a lot of background in the system. My background was limited. I was a Vendor, not an Educator but I did observe what went on inside various schools. The OP'S question didn't make a sweeping observation like this last post of yours did. It asked about Teachers Carrying. I Fully Support that.

I said what I said and said what I meant a Grandfather's Faithful 100%.

I also respect the views that oppose mine.

Sure, let the teachers and the custodians and the guidance counselors and the lunch ladies all carry their weapons. Heck, let the 18 year old seniors bring their guns too. Especially if they were in the Junior ROTC program. /s
But also, make them responsible for any outcome. You take down a bad guy in an active shooter situation, big bonus for you, in the millions. But if your gun harms an innocent person, or is "lost" and used in a crime, or goes off accidentally you are personally liable, not indemnified by the school system, but you the gun owner are responsible and you cannot bankrupt yourself out of that financial risk. You may get insurance if any company would insure you, at your own cost. The idea that 150 hours of training makes a person qualified to competently handle a school shooting is foolish.

And the "Old West".. read about the vigorous gun control in the "Old West" where you had to leave your weapon with the town sheriff if you were within the city limits.

Good question
 

As usual, Bogie comes up with the best question in this entire thread. :ho:

From your post
 

You probably should have gotten some gun safety instruction. Before getting a BB gun let alone a shotgun.

In my day, every boy had a BB gun... It was as common in the small town I grew up in as a pocket knife. :popcorn:

I will refer that post back to the Second Amendment,
But that's a discussion for another day.
Steve

No doubt a great question. I have another one. How would the Officers who show up first know the Victim from The Villan? I'll leave that to those who risked their lives their entire lives for the protection of our lives. Maybe some I.D. they could flash to the Officers? Just a thought!

I like evening the playing field. Instead of the Bad Guy preying on the Weak maybe, just maybe he or she would think twice if they knew they could be harmed by an unknown person in the target school.

Teachers will put their guns down.

They taught us in the academy, you never shoot to kill, you do shoot to stop the threat.

If it was my child or grandchild and they were the bad guy I would support the actions taken. This sounds much like a lot of attitudes today, do what you need to do UNLESS it is my kid, my property or any of my relatives. When I grew up our parents put our teachers in charge and trusted them to make the right decisions and sometimes that included getting our butts kicked by teachers. Today, discipline is not permitted. If a problem exists we need to send them to counseling. Parents don't accept responsibility for discipline and they won't delegate to those they entrust their kids to for up to 8 hours a day. Then when something happens, it's someone else's responsibilities. Arm the teachers, bus drivers and anyone else whose life can be in danger. That's why I carry.

I’ve seen that happen a lot in those news videos....right after they have been shot.
Your answer makes sense if the shooter is dead, what if he/she is still active? And all hell is breaking loose?

Carrying a weapon is self defense.
Last resort.

I don't see teachers running up and down the halls shooting.


As self defense, teachers would be in classrooms with students, behind closed doors.


As police clear the facility, they are announcing and identifying.


Training, not the wild west.

First of all what is adequate training? I received many hours of training but that did not make me comfortable to point my weapon at another human being.

Look back on many of the school shootings. What we really need is for the parents of the shooters to be held responsible for the firearms in their homes and then in the procession of a child. How many parents of the shooters have been held responsible? None, they all had such difficult children...….bull......they were bad, nonresponsive parents. So much of todays problems steam from the home environment.....but the blame always shifts elsewhere.

When you only have a hammer, every problem is a nail.

If a Hammer was coming at one of our Collective Grandchildren I would hope the Teacher that is fully TRAINED would just like the children to turn from a Nail to a SledgeHammer! We are just going around in circles. I get your point, I don't agree but I get your point.

Which is center mass, over and over..

Scott Beigel, a geography teacher at Majory Stoneman Douglas High School, probably wished he had a gun when he was shot and killed while trying to protect students from Nikolas Cruz.

The untrained, mentally ill shooters taking anti-depressants don't seem to have a problem hitting moving targets, with all due respect. The first step is to repeal "gun-free zones." There is a reason mass shootings take place in schools and not in banks, police stations, gun shows, etc.

I agree. But, treating schools, churches, etc. differently from other locations will not really reduce the violence. Just enforcing the second amendment consistently everywhere is the best way to go. If you harden certain areas, those who want to kill will just find another target.

I understand people wanting to “harden” certain areas. What I would like to say is that if we live with a bunker mentality, we are dominated by our fears. Please look at what happens in societies that are run by guns.

I propose a gentler, safer, freer and more disciplined society. One that is adequately guarded by its police and military.

In my years as a teacher I have seen a great reduction of discipline, both in school and at home. Loving, enabling, misguided parents are often shocked by the self-absorbed, entitled kids that result from their efforts.

I remember a student in our gifted program (in a public school) whose very established parents were having a meeting with our principal. They were planning his grade 7 math program. The parents brought their own lawyer to the meeting to make sure the curriculum presented to Max, their son, would be up to their satisfaction.

Several years later, my daughter who was the same age as this gifted student, was enrolled in the same high school. One day I asked her, “How’s Max doing?” She told me he dropped out and became the local drug dealer.

In the transition phase to my ideal society we could have police assigned to be in the schools. They would be trained to get to know the kids and the parents. Be a resource and a friend. And they would have their guns too.

I believe that society will not change until the parent/s of babies stay with them most of the time for three years, like it was in our memory. Manners, morals, values and attitudes are helped during that time, but more importantly a real thing called bonding occurs which is biological and involves the hormone oxytocin.

The difference is the way a grandparent loves a child and a parent loves a child. And what happens if a grandparent raises a child or a parent raises a child.

Just my thoughts. People turn their infants over to people they would not trust with their car keys or their credit card.

Once you pull that trigger, whether right or wrong,be prepared for a law suit. Plan on spending a minimum of $100,000, or losing everything you've worked for. There is insurance that covers that kind of thing, but probably very expensive. I wonder how many people in TV actually have it? Speak up.

Not as expensive as you might think.. Best Concealed Carry Insurance Comparison [2019] | Sniper Country

I am on the fence, but if you qualify for concealed carry, I would support open carry in a holster for all. I believe anyone that would kill an unarmed person is a coward and would be deterred from doing so if they thought their victim could defend themselves.

Allow me a different approach. Your 4 year old is going to school for the first time, scared, afraid to let go of your hand... the teacher greets your child at the door. Would you prefer the teacher carry a gun on their waist or carry a live size teddy bear to greet your child? Second scenario, we are in high school geography class. The white haired old lady at the desk is looking around for her glasses before she starts her class. Third scenario, we are in university, the professor at the front is deeply engrossed in a macro econometric equation. He apologized earlier to the students for putting on his capris this morning instead of his pants because he was in a hurry to get to the lecture hall. All of these are real situations I have experienced.

One more thing to consider; the principal hiring the kindergarten teacher, what will they be looking for in a primary teacher? How well they can shoot?
The high school principal hiring the geography teacher, what will they be looking for in an educator?
The university committee in charge of deciding which candidate will bring prestige to the university (usually based on the type of research you have had published and how often your research is cited by others) do you think they will be interested in how well you can shoot?

Ya think that might have something to do with the fact that the scumbag, gun-nut school shooter's have semi-auto's with typically high-capacity magazines...and extra loaded magazines?

I would bet the majority of school shooters have missed more people with each bullet they've fired...than they've hit.

But a teacher, is going to be more accurate with a handgun...and with less bullets? :oops:

So what's next, letting teachers have military-style assault style rifles also...maybe just propped against their desks so they're handy?

And baloney on the attempted deflection by calling them "modern sporting rifles," (as the NRA would like)... they are 'military-style assault rifles,' period. :ohdear:

Obviously this will not matter to CNM, but others might be interested, and at least use this as fodder for thought. It's also very obvious we differ in our thoughts on firearms as a whole, so I will not debate the issue any longer.
Modern Sporting Rifle: Introduction • NSSF
Steve

Interesting & Educational...........thanks for posting.

THE OP ASKED**Should trained teachers be able to carry a gun in schools???**

My views are in line with your's anothersteve. The link you provided was great. Thank You. Keep an eye on where this fantastic thread is headed now. Should be interesting. Train The Teachers and Strap 'Em Up. Times Are Changing, Get With The New Program. Protect the Children At Every Age!

There are always two or more sides to every issue. Sometimes it is the children you need to be protected from and bringing more guns into the school just makes the guns more available. The teachers now need to teach while at the same time worry about being attacked for their guns. It is never a simple answer.

And your assumption...would be dead wrong.

I've owned firearms, both handguns and long rifles (.22 to .30-06), plus a shotgun of course...since I was about 13.

Since I no longer hunt (got tired of venison a long time ago), I will rarely use them and usually just use my Ruger 10/22 (10-round rotary mag)for plinking...somewhere safe in the woods.

I also know how addicting to some people, the 'sense of power' a firearm conveys and how rabid some people get, when you talk about guns...ANY guns

I've simply never been one of those types.

So sorry, reading a link from "The Firearms Industry Trade Association" whose primary existence is to sell more guns (especially since sales have gone down, when the screeching of "Obama is coming to take away all your guns," which was never even an issue, has now gone away) ....doesn't exactly change my mind on military-style assault rifles.


US gun sales down 6.1 percent in 2018, extending '''Trump slump'''

I never owned a gun.....do not want to own a gun....did my shooting, etc while in the military.

My only comment to this post and specifically to this sentence..

"Train The Teachers and Strap 'Em Up. Times Are Changing, Get With The New Program. Protect the Children At Every Age"

That sentence sounds like the old west and getting together a posse.

I hope I am wrong but seems to me the accent on allowing more to carry, spells for ultimate tragedy in the future. The two bills passed in the US congress will obviously never even get voted on in the senate, and the Florida law is eventually going to be up to the local school district.

I hope and pray I am so wrong but the entire thing sounds like a sure fire recipe for disaster.

Believe me, my heart simply cries out for protecting our children at all costs from every kind of harm imaginable, but expanding their "world" with surrounding with more guns just does not feel right.

Seems to me that common sense is taking a vacation for some reason.

Ok...sorry to interrupt, but sort of tired of everyone on every issue just being macho instead of reasonable and listening instead of pounding of chests. My experience that usually brings more violence, not less.

What about metal detectors? Seems to work at the airport.

Some good reading here.. 5 reasons metal detectors in schools are a bad idea, according to security expert - masslive.com

And here..
School Metal Detectors - School SecuritySchool Security

K, I read that article. ”Invest in people” in particular resonates with me. If it means guns, hire school police for each school, if it means education, train for tolerance and understanding and if it refers to bullying, train for conflict resolution.

Who was that OP???.............I think we should Strap 'Em Up!!!

Haha. Sometimes it's easy to read into sarcasm.
Steve