Traffic controls in the tri-counties
 

TRAFFIC CONTROLS IN THE TRI-COUNTIES
Let’s begin with my admitting that I am an impatient son-of-a-gun and if things don’t go my way I have a hissy fit.

I have some terrible issues with the traffic controls in Tri-Counties. I have lived in North Carolina, South Carolina, Virginia, California and Florida (Miami, Sarasota, St. Pete, Tampa, Jacksonville, Tallahassee and now The Villages) and I have never experienced the traffic controls like the ones we face daily….if we’re out on the highways.
In most other locations, the traffic engineers time the traffic signals to have an orderly flow of traffic. The primary issue is, of course, is SAFETY. The flow of traffic traveling at the posted speed limit should be able to continue through the traffic signals without having to stop. But not here. If you drive on US 441/27 you are lucky if you can get through two traffic signals without stopping and I mean lucky. Most of the time, you will have to stop at every stinking light. We drove through Leesburg this morning and every….EVERY light caught us.

And, I have never experienced the left turn arrow as we have here. In most locations, other than the tri-counties, you may have a left turn arrow, which gives you total right of way against opposing traffic. When that turn arrow goes to caution (yellow) you know that your right of way against opposing traffic is about to cease and you need to prepare to stop. But, then after the caution light goes off, you have a green light….in most other locations; but you also have opposing traffic, so you have better wait until you have a break in traffic before your turn left. Here, in the tri-counties, the turn arrow goes to red and you sit and sit and sit, even though there may not be any traffic coming at you. And that’s compounded by some wonderful driver who will not pull out into the intersection so that they can turn left when the traffic has a gap or when the light turns red. AAAARRRRGGGG!!!

Another wonderful bit of timing frequently occurs and the intersection of Buenos Aries and Hwy 466. Those lights are so timed that there may be no traffic at all allowed through in any direction. Cars on 466 in both directions just sit. Traffic on Buenos Aires just sit. Ain’t nobody goin’ no where.

Now can somebody explain to this growly impatient pain in the #$$@ what is going on?

I realize that I can rationalize my feelings with the justification that all that idle time you are just sitting in your automobile is a terrible waste of gasoline, polluting the environment, but I admitted that I am impatient and I am, but my greatest area of impatience is stupidity. You can’t cure stupidity and the traffic controls around here are just stupid.

And….I might add….I love our seasonal neighbors, aka, Snow Birds. They are great people and make great friends and neighbors. It’s those other idiots that come down here and don’t know how to drive around The Villages that get on our nerves. The are arrogant, abusive, antagonistic, rude and just down right nasty and they give a bad name to our wonderful seasonal neighbors whom we love so dearly.

Incidentally, I do not moan and groan about “the developer” making money and increasing prices. They must make a profit. It’s their investment of time, money and resources and they damned sure should make a profit. Do you want to live in a community that was created and controlled by a bunch of idiots? If they didn’t make profits, they would go bankrupt and leave us high and dry to fend for ourselves. But the traffic around here stinks.:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

I am one of those wonderful drivers.

I don't pull out into the intersection until I am confident I can turn left without pausing.

I guess you have lots of company. I am somehow programmed by something in my past NOT to let this bother me, although I am usually not patient. When in a car, you do not allow stuff like this to make you mad. Came from a long line of non-honkers. It is practically a sin to honk at someone where I grew up.

Everyone is different. I am so sorry this upsets you.

I agree that sitting behind those who stay behind the white line when making a left turn is frustrating. The practice might even be considered obstructing traffic in some jurisdictions.

Your complaints are totally warranted. It is ridiculous that they can't time those lights. It's also ridiculous that they can't put right turn lanes at the majority of intersections. I can't count how much of my life has been wasted sitting at a red light behind a car that is going straight because they refuse to put in right turn lanes even where there is plenty of room to do so. Then when they do have a turn lane, you spend countless minutes waiting behind that ass clown who won't pull up enough to let you get in the turn lane.

Bet you get honked out quite a bit.

Wow. There is a lot in your post. And you make some decent points. But I must point out that your frustration is partially due to your expectations….

The part of your post I quoted above is basically impossible to achieve. The goal is too minimize overall delay, not give one direction unrestricted flow. With cross traffic (thus the traffic signals) and variations in traffic flow, there WILL be delays. Minimizing those delays is the goal of the traffic engineer.

FWIW, I spent my career as a Professional Transportation Engineer in the State of Florida. :)

I agree with the original post. Most major streets in cities I have lived in are timed to give traffic successive green lights for traffic going the speed limit. In my experience here in Florida you get successive red lights if you drive at the posted speed.

Drives my husband nuts!

kathy

In PA and NJ if you pull pass the white line and then turn left when the light turns green you have gone through a red light. I have the ticket to prove it. I discussed with my insurance carrier and they confirmed that is the law and the resulting accident was my fault. That happened in 2004 so can't speak to any change. I suspect that is the law in many States or there would be no need for the white line.

They are not talking about pulling out into the intersection when the light is RED. Pull out into the intersection when the light is GREEN. Then when there's a gap in the oncoming traffic or when the oncoming traffic stops, you can make your left hand turn, even if the light has now turned RED.

That's perfectly legal because you ENTERED the intersection when the light was GREEN.

Welcome to over crowded Florida, it’s only going to get worse.

You didn’t even mention the left turn lights that are on a timer and turn on even when there is nobody in the turn lane. Don’t these intersections have sensors to detect someone waiting for a left turn light?

I am a native Floridian and even back in the fifties, my Dad would say they want the tourist to stop and spend money.

Yep, this bugs me too...
And the gazillion STOP signs in TV that should be YIELD signs because hardly anybody stops for them anyway.
:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

All the comments are the reason I very rarely drive my car, unless I'm forced to go outside TV. I always drive my golf cart, and am in a much better frame of mind for doing so. It may take me a few more minutes to get to some places, but it's worth it for my mental state of staying calm. Everyone moves mostly the same rate of speed, it's easy to pass a slower cart, almost no stop lights, and very short delays crossing streets with auto traffic. If you plan your life correctly, there is almost no place you need to go that you can't get to by golf cart.

Grill Master.....don't sweat the small stuff. This is not important at all. You are going to give yourself a heart attack.

If you hit the first light and drive at the posted speed and the lights are timed for the speed limit.......logically you will hit every red light wouldn’t you?? Just asking

It’s all relative
 

Being that I’m use to driving in LOs Angeles traffic, bumper to bumper in 6 lanes on the “expressways”, traffic here seems nonexistent and haven’t noticed that many issues. Being retired, every day is Saturday, so not that worried about how long it takes me to get from point “A” to “B”. Not worth sweating the small stuff....

If you look up, you'll see cameras on the cables connecting the traffic lights. There are also trip-wires under the road near the stop lines. There is also a timer.

This is so that people moving on the main road (such as 441) don't get stuck having to stop when no one is actually trying to cross the road. Unfortunately, if the camera misses you at the wrong moment, you're stuck in the left turn lane for an extra cycle.

The trick to tripping the light, that I've experienced so far:

Look at the lights up ahead when you're far away. Are they red? Well - you're going to miss that cycle then, no matter what you do. Are they yellow? You have a chance. Are they green? If you scoot along at a steady quick clip and make it into the left lane before they turn yellow, it's POSSIBLE you'll get that extra left-turn signal before the next cycle. But you might have to wait til the next cycle anyway.

If you see you're going to miss the signal, then move SLOWLY into that left lane. Do -not- go all the way up to the line. Stop a car-length away. And then, as soon as the side-road gets THEIR left turn, slowly move up to the line. That'll trip it.

And by sitting behind the intersection while you have a green light ....and waiting .....instead of proceeding into the intersection, you prevent others behind you from following. As far as I know it is legal and safe for a driver to move into the center of the intersection when the light is green and wait for an opportunity to torn left against oncoming traffic. The light is green!!! Use it! Please!!!

Turning Left
 

It's conceivable that unless the traffic light has a left turn arrow, you could wait at the stop line for several cycles before traffic approaching from the opposite direction clears. I believe that at an intersection where there is no left turn arrow, you are allowed to enter the intersection on green, wait for traffic from the opposite direction to clear, and then make your left turn. Perhaps a call to a Florida Highway Patrol Post would clear up any confusion.

No. The lights have both a timer and a trip. If less-travelled side-roads suddenly have a car at the front line, it will trip the cycle and reset the timer. If you happen to be approaching the light on the main road when this happens, you are likely to get stuck at the light.

Ride a bike instead. They dont stop

Traffic circles
 

I can add two additional frustrations:

The traffic in the rotary has the right of way. Some drivers from one particular unnamed state are apparently taught that traffic entering the circle has the right of way. Result? Traffic in the circle slows and bunches up to allow the incoming vehicle to enter. WRONG.

Next: Rotaries here need some getting use to. Once you have been here awhile this isn’t a problem since you expect it. For newer residents or seasonal residents, this may be an issue. Some of the rotaries have two marked dotted line exit lanes from the rotary both going into some village entrances. It is possible for traffic in the right lane which is proceeding STRAIGHT past the exit to cross with traffic in the left lane attempting to leave the rotary to enter the village. The road markings show a turn possible from the left lane. The issue might. be resolved by somehow changing the road markings to reflect only the right lane may leave the rotary.

I never leave a rotary from the left lane regardless of how the lanes are marked

State and local traffic engineers in Florida are definitely not on the same page. Bad driving is often the result of bad traffic engineers. Let that sink in.

...and the unseen person, perhaps on a motorcycle, traveling in the opposite direction will hit you when you’re turning.

Left turn accidents are the worst! Stay out of the intersection until it’s safe to make your left turn

I really have to laugh at your comments about traffic in Leesburg and the signals. Maybe you should realize that the lights are synchronized exactly so you cannot go through two of them! Leesburg has only two lanes each way and it's done this way specifically so you don't go 55 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone. Unlike the villages area of 27/441 where there are three lanes each way, Leesburg has many many more intersections per mile on its main thoroughfare going north south and it's done for safety meaning your safety. It's bad enough everyone trying to get in and out to go somewhere fast just remember you're retired and you don't have to get there fast. And really if you don't like it take one of the East-West routes to 301 and see how you like that.

5 minutes of your life I feel sorry for you

While I've been coming to and owned in TV for years and finally just got my NJ house on the market, I have pretty good handle on the way FL vs NJ handles traffic. This is probably the _ONLY_ thing NJ does better than FL.

Traffic flow.

Every trip on 441 in either direction, you will catch every light. The length of the lights on the main highway are ridiculous too. The Yellows are not long enough as well, they need at least another second and yes, that is a _PROVEN_ way to reduce collisions and save lives.

This applies to any major road. Side roads are given way too much priority. You stop 200 cars so 3 cars can get out? Dumb. Make the 3 cars turn right if they don't want to wait and get turned around further down the road.

In college, one of my senior level courses was GPSS which is a time and traffic simulation program. While I was only peripherally involved(I built the module for a low volume intersection), one of the really good programmers put together all our modules and simulated the entire campus traffic system. He submitted his recommendations to the prof who took it to the board who submitted it to the city who in fact changed all the lights. The result? It eliminated two major bottlenecks.

I have to think that FDOT has some talented programmers and engineers, do they just ignore them?

As I was discussing just last night, the rotary is here are very poorly designed as their diameter is about 1/4 of what they should be for proper usage. I will never ever get into the inside Lane whether or not I have to go exit the first second or the third turn. The only time I answer the rotary is when there is nobody to the left of me in the rotary or to the right of me in the rotary at least one quarter circle behind. In other words it has to be damn empty for me because there isn't enough time to make a decision when you're doing even 25 miles an hour and there's only 50 ft to decide to go left or right or turn. Whoever allowed the rotaries at the state level did a very poor job PS I'm from New Jersey and New York and I damn well know how to drive

You do know however and it's hundreds of thousands of dollars to put in a right turn lane and that right turn Lanes do back up the other two lanes 50% of the time

The traffic lights that have left turn arrows and then left turn red arrows are intersections that have had a history of left turn accidents, due to the impatience of us crabby old drivers. If you notice, there is even a 2 or 3 second delay when one light turns red and the other turns green. This is for all those impatient grumpy old people who know they can make that light, even though it turns yellow 100 feet before they get to it. Saves lives when they adjust the lights to make you wait a few seconds before you can race to the next light.

You might want to review proper rotary driving yourself. The reason 2 lanes "exit" the rotary is that 2 lanes enter the rotary and can go straight through 180 degrees. There are 2 ways that some bozo will cross in front of a car exiting from the left (inner) lane.
1) They entered alongside you, but were going 270 degrees to the 3rd exit (ridiculous, but drivers do it all the time)
2) Someone entered the right (outer) lane from the 1st exit while you were coming around and then went straight (also prohibited, vehicles entering the RB MUST yield to traffic in EITHER lane, but it also happens daily)

There are some rotaries that have 2 lanes but a single lane "exit", but those are easily managed as well. All in all, the RBs work pretty well if drivers would learn to navigate them properly

Just for the record. Its illegal to pull into the intersection while you wait for a break in traffic to make your turn. I know. Iknow. Everyone does it and so do I BUT those people are just obeying traffic laws

Your fault
 

If you make a left turn in a round about from the right hand lane, any accident in the round about will be YOUR fault! Open your eyes and look for the BIG green signs, 100 feet before each one, showing which lanes to be in if you want to turn or go straight. Maybe you should give up your license and sell your car if you can’t safely navigate the traffic.

I’ve lived in Virginia (DC area), Southern California, Pennsylvania, Colorado, etc., and driven when I can’t avoid it in NYC and Philadelphia. I’ve been in a lot of traffic jams in cities and on freeways. I hear your frustration, and I also get annoyed by lights that change when there is no need. However, I don’t consider the traffic signals on 441 unusually bad. As happens most places, if there is no road construction and no traffic, cars can zip right through with few stops. When traffic is heavy, the system doesn’t work as well. Still, I can usually drive from Total Wine to WalMart in about five minutes, I think. Maybe ten at the worst rush hour. I can live with that. Lights that don’t change unless there is cross traffic from small roads can be great, but they don’t work as well when there is a long string of synchronised signals in a business district. Too complicated, and they break the flow pattern. Still, signals have come a long way since we were kids. I admit that I’ve often sat on Morse at 466 at 9 pm for two minutes, the only car in sight, and wished I could just proceed with caution.

What annoys me is people at a light who are texting and decide to finish the text before starting, so only three cars get through the signal instead of ten.

As for traffic on roads in The Villages, apart from unavoidable heavy traffic at times on Morse north of 466 (two blocks from my house), I consider it a miracle of traffic engineering.

Are you seriously stating that you INTENTIONALLY stay in the right (outer) lane even if you are going around 270 to the 3rd exit?????? If so, you are not only part of the problem and not part of the solution, but EXTREMELY DANGEROUS as well to the rest of us who know what we are doing. Please stay off the road or learn to drive a RB!

Traffic Lights
 

I can't speak for the lights on 441/27, but there does need to be a break in traffic on 466. The "one & only one" entrance from my village is on 466. Without a break in traffic, we are trapped in our village. As more and more apartments are built on 466, the traffic is almost non-stop.

One of these days, one of my neighbors or myself will get killed trying to access 466!!!