Newell AED Program- Different View
 

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

An AED is an "automated external defibrillator". A lot of posters seem to think that everyone is familiar with the same acronyms that they use. They are not.

I wouldn't pay $100 unless every resident agreed to pay the same amount, and actually paid it. Also, why should a single person pay $100, but a couple only pays $50 each? What about a larger household? I doubt that they will be able to collect enough money to buy 25 AEDs. My opinion.

Neighborhood AED programs are usually established in coordination with VPSD. The AED program coordinator from VPSD will look at the number of houses and the layout of your village and determine the number and location of AED’s. They help establish an amount needed to fund the purchase and maintenance of the devices for the first four years. Our village has 19 AED’s. Our group also started on Facebook. It was the easiest way to communicate. We also had a presentation from VPSD on how the program works. That gave any of our residents a chance to voice any concerns or ask any questions.
We also went door to door asking for $100. That seems to be pretty standard. If someone wasn’t interested we just moved on to the next house. We had several people contributed well over the $100 ask. If the people in your village are trying to shame people into contributing that should be addressed with your coordinator.

Very ballpark figure would be $2,000 to purchase, some amount to install, then about $500 after three years for batteries and pads.

For 25 devices that comes close to $63,000 or 630 homes each contributing $100. By 2027 you would need to collect again for the next set of batteries and pads. Are there than many homes in the neighborhood?

We don't have any in our area. I'm told it was discussed some time before I bought here but with the great response times of the VPSD it was determined to be a lot of money, training, and coordination for possibly no return.

Thank you
 

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Just to address some of your concerns. And I can only tell you how our village did/does things.
We had a retired nurse spearhead our effort. She asked for volunteers and established an AED Committee. We printed and distributed flyers with information about the program, so if someone wasn’t on facebook they were still initially informed. Since then our AED Committee has established a stand alone facebook group. If someone has questions and aren’t on facebook they can contact our coordinator directly.
We had tremendous support from the beginning. We have over 100 people trained in CPR and the use of the AED’s.
We also have a Maintenance Committee. We check our AED’s monthly, filling out a checklist and keeping it on file with the Maintenance Coordinator.
We’re in St. Catherine. That’s a six minute drive from Station 47. Add in dispatch time and the time it takes to roll, figure a minimum of eight minutes for first responders to arrive. And that’s if our closest resources are available.
We hold monthly communication tests and quarterly live dispatches. Our average time on scene is around two minutes with AED arrival around 2.5 minutes. As you might know every minute that the brain goes without oxygen reduces the chance of survival by about 10%. If we can get there in two minutes vs eight, it seems like a no brainer to have a local AED program.

Great post.. The pros and cons should be weighed in an informal meeting at a rec center.

Those who take the initiative to start the program usually are the "boss"...

That is typically the first step in purchasing the devices...

Then don't participate now...

My neighborhood has had the program for years. While I'm not yet a full time resident, I paid my initial $100 (as I believe it's an invaluable program that could possibly save my life when I AM there) and also pay for tickets to the yearly fund raisers we have to maintain the project, even when I cannot attend...

CPR training and AED training typically go hand in hand. I know our AED responders are also trained in CPR.

I plan to join the program when I become a frog (there until I croak), as I'm already trained in AED use and CPR.

Batteries need to be replaced. Hence the yearly fundraiser.

And I'm pretty sure that EMS or the Fire Dept helps with checking the machines...

This is exactly how the program works. If someone calls 911, they immediately send EMS help, but the next call goes out to the AED team (who undergo training), who respond, as well. They all receive a text and whomever is nearby can respond. Is it perfect? Obviously not. There may be times when no one is around. But it is an excellent adjunct...

Having all the facts helps...

This is the best answer. Get VPSD involved no need to reinvent the wheel. They have done this many times.

Here is the program: https://districtgov.org/departments/...DHAED_0124.pdf

The AED program for our neighborhood consists of 2 units for ~70 homes, and once a year training for 12 responders. The requested donation is $100/per home every 4 years. This will cover training, pad and battery replacement as well as a reserve for AED unit replacement. As others have indicated this program can get a CPR trained person to the scene of a heart attack in a very short time. EMS and paramedics typical arrival time Village wide is in the order or 7 to 8 minutes. Add at least another minute for the EMS folks to start CPR. So one can conclude the "AED Program" can make a positive impact on a person who has a cardiac event. $100 per 4 years is very cheap insurance - especially if YOU are the one in need.

Thank you to everyone responding to my post. Great to hear some "facts" and honest input on the program. Great that its connected to TV EMS. Mad respect for EMS! I wonder what the OP has to say after all these posts?

I need to add how important prompt, effective, CPR is to a chance at saving life. Circulating blood and oxygen means a lot more than... "No Shock Advised" stated by an AED. Don't think an AED, by itself, will provide a chance at life with a functioning brain. I again say that CPR should be your first thought to save a pulseless life. I again urge everyone to be competent in CPR, AED, and Heimlich for choking. If it happens to you or someone around you, you're best bet is having trained people around you. Having people afraid to initiate CPR due to lack of training and waiting for EMS is not conducive to positive outcomes...aka survival...in the Emergency Department when your body arrives. The reality is that the resuscitation chain has to be perfectly initiated to get about a 12% survival rate, outside the hospital. Fast to start and effective CPR gives the most chance.

I'm beginning to see that there is a huge reliance on these trained neighbors in the existing Villages with AED groups. If I'm drunk at the Square.... I'm not oncall. Eight minutes for EMS to arrive? SMH... Better know CPR yourselves because paying $100 every few years doesn't substitute for knowledge of how to be able help yourself. Again I'm realistic....harsh reality...but real.

Last time I renewed my CPR certification the instructor clearly stated that CPR is the worst case scenario. AED's are more than twice as effective in saving lives.

You're CPR instructor clearly is a mass murderer. Please do call the American Heart Association and PLEASE GIVE THEM YOUR INSTRUCTOR'S NAME....so they can ban him. I will gladly give back all my certifications if CPR is not your immediate response

First off, I’m violating my own rule for not reading the whole thread before I post so my apologies in advance.
That said, I would think in this day and age, that the AED would be ‘standard equipment’, especially in an over 55 community. The costs, while somewhat pricey, will never outweigh saving a life. Not a big learning curve with this device as it is voice directed....step by step, usually fool proof. The pads are nominal to replace but as stated before, they do have a shelf life. All that said, maybe if the units were expanded in deployment to other districts, a cheaper per unit cost could be achieved but honestly, I think this is a no brainer for the developer to absorb. In a perfect world obviously. On this one i guess I just assumed they were already in place...

So in this day and age....how do you circulate blood carrying oxygen? An AED does not circulate blood and your body dies without oxygen. An AED used on arrival after CPR was started can increase your chance of a positive outcome. CPR is the first thing you should do on a pulseless victim

Medical and life saving advice on TOTV? It's unfortunate that Phife has passed away and can't join in. Perhaps Lil Durk will come offer some life-saving tips?

Yeah I’m only addressing the OP query about AED purchases and deployment. How it devolved into flexing about First Aid/CPR street cred.....I guess I missed a few posts! ;)

Ha! You're funny and your posts are appreciated. The only flexing I want is if I go down and need CPR to have a chance. Don't want neighborhood thinking the AED is like Jesus and gonna rise me from the dead

I haven’t heard that AED joke in years, but it’s still scary to think some are a believer.

Have seen in older neighborhoods that 2am call, groggy (2minutes get dressed) then over to the box, (1-2 minutes to unlock grab unit) then to the house, (1-2 minutes in the dark) carefully placing pads, Waiting for the warm up. Yet nobody has checked for a pulse, starting CPR.

After 45 years of training to resurrect the dead, I know my limits, of how long I can maintain compression depth and length of time before need of help. that limit used to be 20 minutes, now 10-12. But I expect that will dwindle as time goes on, and have zero issues admitting that fact. But after 45 years of trauma call, I still can be alert and fully functional at adrenaline rush in less than a minute.

Average TV response from EMS is around 3-8 minutes given experience in TV, since 2010. In our home we are good doing CPR, until EMS comes through front door. Just remember as you are calling 911, unlock front door, turn on lights that only takes less then 5 seconds. Then start CPR


It’s not hard to ask your highly trained coworker to step aside because they are in need of relief. But I found volunteers get a little testy when someone says time for switch.

My wife and I left the bubble for dinner, the cost with tip was $98.00. The following day that enjoyment was just a memory, the day after it was gone and we moved on to the next expensive memory. For 100 bucks you might help someone live....and that is the better buy. Our neighborhood has 7 units. Not everyone contributed, and that was ok since there were enough of us that felt the benefit was worth it so we got it done. That was 7 years ago, and as people move in and move out we continue to get dontions from those moving in when they know we have the AED's in the neighborhood. And yes, 2 bucks a week is a lot of money :)

Thank you all the years of caring you have given to people. CPR is exhausting and we all need help to back us. Guess that sums up my little campaign to encourage training for everyone that cares about people

From Harvard University:

“It’s theoretically better than CPR because it can restart the heart, whereas CPR is merely a stopgap.” One study found that a defibrillator-CPR combination improved the survival rate over CPR alone (23% versus 14%).

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

A simple question:
 

What prevents these from being stolen?

One more perspective: our village has had AEDs for around 20 years. I believe not a single one has been used in 20 years. But batteries must be replaced every few years and maintained etc and a plan of action must be in place to use and find the AED and who is the main person, who is the backup etc etc. Are they really worth it? CPR= fast and no cost and is the most effective way to revive a person. This actually just happened to one of our fellow villagers who stopped breathing on a pickleball court. CPR saved his life, not an AED. I am not seeing the value of the AED. It’s not a perfect world and we are all going to die at some point. Maybe it’s better to have a village CPR class instead of buying a bunch of AEDs?

There's a need for both because they treat two different conditions. (I'm not a medical professional, but have received training in both CPR and AED use.) A very common condition is when the heart is weakened, but still beating, by a "heart attack." It can't pump enough blood and CPR is essential to maintaining life. The other condition is when the heart has lost the electrical signal which keeps it beating. An AED shocks it back into action.

Yes, CPR is more often an effective remedy. But there are rare times when an AED is really needed to resume the heartbeat. In BOTH cases, CPR is essential and should be started immediately while someone else fetches an AED.

BTW, the AED can also do the diagnosis to determine if a shock is needed, but DON'T wait for that. Always start CPR immediately.

I can only say that a similar effort was conducted in Monarch Grove several years ago. Those who contributed were asked for $85. I’m not sure how many AED’s were purchased but they are in every neighborhood here and if myself or my husband ever need it, I’m glad it’s there. It’s a small investment to try to save a neighbors’ life.

By the time new batteries are needed there will undoubtedly be some new people that will have the opportunity to contribute then if they choose to.

My previous post focused on the very different conditions that CPR and AED devices serve. CPR is needed in all cases and is frequently enough to save a life. But there are those rare cases where CPR won't restart a heartbeat. That's when the AEDs make a real difference.

The REAL VALUE of the AED programs hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread. That value is the building of a team of responders in your own neighborhood, along with making available an alerting system for those responders. When a 911 operator alerts EMS teams, a "PulsePoint" alert system is notified at the same time. It sends "CPR Needed" alerts to all trained responders within 1/2 mile of the person who needs attention. That alert system, and a network of trained and willing neighbors is very often able to get to the victim before the EMS teams.

In neighborhoods some distance from a fire station, this makes a huge difference. I live in Chitty Chatty and we have a fire station literally "across the street." I've responded to several alerts and in every case there have been multiple neighbors responding and in every case someone has been there to start CPR before the EMS team arrived. Every second counts and the earliest possible CPR is the best remedy.

THAT, in my mind, is the value of the program. Without those neighbors, a victim is left waiting ... and probably not spending their fading moments whining about a $100 contribution.

Just curious…. Where is the closest fire/rescue station to the area of Newell, Dabney & Lake Denham?

I’ve heard Don (GoldWingNut) mention on his videos about the TV’s goal of having a station within 2 miles (I believe) of every home.

There has been more than one life saved by these devices in the Villages. So are you saying $100 isn’t worth a life except maybe unless it yours. Pretty shorted sighted for so little money. I am sure if they go ahead with this and you need it they won’t ask if you contributed or not.

Agree with this sentiment. We have contributed to the project but with resistance the project is bringing something is very wrong. Refund the money and move on

I appreciate the tone and content of your message.

I am the administrator of one of the three Newell FB pages - and also a member of the AED committee - I understand your concerns. These two functions have NOTHING to do with each other, however. Other fundraising events have been on the page. The page's main function is to share with very few exceptions agreed to by members.

The program is vital in my opinion - I paid in Citrus Grove and paid again after I moved to Newell. We kept the fee the same as Citrus Grove. We have NO idea how many people live in a house, so the fee - like Amenities Fees - are per household.

I agree with you 100% that there should be no strongarming and no one should EVER be asked why they are not donating. We had a meeting recently and this exact topic was discussed at length. Hopefully we are taking steps to correct this, and we are focusing on VPSD stats and information on the benefits of AED from outside sources (The Daily Sun did a recent article, for example).

As the Facebook admin, I have seen a couple of posts the asked why they were not supporting and posted that is not an appropriate question or I removed the reply.

The VPSD tells us where the devices go and how many we need. Newell is approximately 9 minutes from the nearest Fire House. There is an AED at Franklin - when it is open. But AEDs in Rec Centers can only be used on Villages facilities. While CPR is ALWAYS the first and most important step, AEDs are vital to increase the chance of survival.

I hope this was helpful. You see my name here and can message me.

Well said sir!

In the group of courtyard villas where I live, there are at least two AEDs, and perhaps another one I don’t know about. One is a hundred feet from my door. But I don’t know who has the key. I don’t know who to call. I don’t know if the person I called actually knows how to determine if my heart is beating. The person might be shopping or playing golf or on the phone. I live alone, and my doors are locked. If my heart stops, I’m not able to call anyone. If I have a heart attack but my heart is still beating, will I be able to call 911 and open the door?

Most people don’t realize that even if an AED is used within a couple minutes, there is a high likelihood that there will be temporary or permanent mental impairment, even if the heart stops in a hospital. I think most people don’t know that there is very little chance that even if I had a spouse who knew who to call and the person was home, that the person could reach me in under five minutes, and it would probably be longer. In that case, I am almost sure to suffer brain damage. Where these AEDs are most useful is in places like restaurants, stores, and sporting events. I think having them in neighborhoods is mostly the manufacturers trying to make money.

Over-thinking
 

My respectful suggestion is to simply avoid over-thinking the issue.

On a yearly basis the cost is less than $20. If you can’t afford to pay then don’t.

If you would like to be involved in the organizing committee or as a responder then do so. If not then don’t.

If you were to have an event in your home, most likely a firefighter or EMS professional would be the responder. Both are pretty seasoned in gaining entry. If you live alone, maybe consider investing in an alert system especially if this is of concern to you.

True but unless you have that AED in your closet, the minutes waiting for the unit should be used to do CPR. In any setting immediately shake for response, while checking for pulse, or breath. Begin CPR.

One doesn’t sit and watch a non breathing human waiting for a unit. Stopped counting after 100 events, and not once did anyone wait for those pad to be slapped on, even with the unit just outside the door.

So even with a full cart with drugs and opened unit ready to go CPR is first, waiting for that CLEAR announcement.

There are thousands of retired medical people in TV. It’s a bonus when someone has experience or steps away because they have had enough

25 AEDs? What a deal. Linden Isle has 2, supported by a $60 donation. How many AEDs per person did they plan for?
Who ever decided to run your project is an autocrat/poor communicator, forcing their priorities on you. You have a right to make noise.

If you don’t donate, do they withhold services to you? Is this a one time donation? These devices need maintenance. If they didn’t tell me what we are purchasing and how the program will be run, I would hesitate to donate. Needs better organization and leadership.

Actually the fire department has program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry.

We have fall alert on our Alexa and yes it was activated when a was alone and took a bad fall. Calls went to my contacts, within seconds. Since they are all medical each responding appropriately to their task

There is an app for your phone called Pulse Point. Next time you hear sirens, open that app and look for the call. Note the time for when that call initiated.
I am about 1 mile from a fire station, and the typical amount of time that passes is longer then 8 minutes for 95% of the calls. And they are still in route to the call. That's not very good. IMO, it's awful for a paid department. Even subtracting 2 minutes drive time, 6+ minutes to get out the door leaves a lot of room for improvement.
Someone having a heart attack needs help a lot faster than that. The "golden window" of less than 4 minutes is the goal to have CPR started if there is any hopes of a good outcome.
The AED program also gets trained help moving asap. Not one, but many people. Some will start CPR. Some will grab the AED. Nearly every time these neighbors arrive well before EMS. It's more than just buying a machine.

The AED program also trains about what is the right thing to do. That made up example is NOT how people are trained.

EXACTLY !!

But please remember that CPR + AED is not a miracle cure for a heart attack. Even with both on scene, survival rates are very low, but there is a chance a life can be saved. Hovever, without them, they will die 100% of the time.
Somebody having a heart attack has several factors that caused that to happen. Those conditions don't vanish when help arrives. The goal is to keep the patient viable until advanced life support can intervene, and get them to a hospital with all the modern life saving equipment and medicines are available.