Originally Posted by JamesLove (Post 2312155)

My respectful suggestion is to simply avoid over-thinking the issue.

On a yearly basis the cost is less than $20. If you can’t afford to pay then don’t.

If you would like to be involved in the organizing committee or as a responder then do so. If not then don’t.

Originally Posted by SusanStCatherine (Post 2312275)

There are Villages supplied AEDs at the rec centers and on some Villages owned property. A neighborhood needs committed residents to form a response team and The Villages cannot dictate that.

Originally Posted by Blueblaze (Post 2312280)

It just strikes me as a scam to sell AED's. But when the AED guy down the street showed up at my door a month after I moved in, $100 seemed cheap to avoid becoming an outcast in my new neighborhood. I paid it and that's the last I ever heard from the guy again. He doesn't even wave if he's in his yard when I walk my dog past his house . Oh, well... I guess that's the price we monkey's pay to live in the troupe.

I don't doubt the noble intentions of the the guy with the AED in his yard. I just can't imagine the scenario where it would save anyone's life but his own. So, what are we saying? I grab my shoulder one morning while trimming the shrubs, and some guy in a golf cart happens by who just happens to know CPR, and the phone number for the guy with the key to the AED just happens to be one of the "favorites" in his phone? Luckily, the AED guy two blocks away happens to be home, and moments later, here he comes screaming down the street with the gadget to save my life? And while the gadget is shocking me back to life, he pulls out his phone and dials 911 to fetch the EMT's from the fire station three blocks away?

I dunno. Seems like a stretch. But never accuse me of challenging monkey customs! Just pay it and quityerbichen!

Originally Posted by Kenswing (Post 2312283)

A little understanding of the program can go a long way. There’s no calling the guy with the combo to the AED. As soon as someone calls 911 and reports a cardiac arrest, the AED responders are sent an alert simultaneously to the fire department being toned out.
Our village is broken into zones. When the call goes out the trained responders in the zone where the incident is gets a text alert along with an automated phone message. In most cases the two adjacent zones to the incident will also be activated just to ensure an adequate number of people respond.

Originally Posted by jayteadunn (Post 2312285)

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

Originally Posted by CarlR33 (Post 2312389)

Yes, I would agree. With any effort a (cost) benefit analysis must be done. Before you say a life is priceless has anyone realized that you would need to have a minimum of three people to utilize one of these AED’s, the victim, the spouse or responder who now has to now call 911, the third person to go get the AED or will the spouse just let the person wait there without administering CPR because getting the AED is more important? Lastly, I have not seen one of these at the community pools? Is there one at the community recreation center buildings or pickle ball courts, etc.? Sadly, what if one that was promised in a location is missing, not working, etc?

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham (Post 2312090)

I'll be nice and point out that's exactly what I said....but also you must in exact detail tell us what you will do, after waiting around the most precious moments in someone's life, when the AED says..."No Shock advised". I would appreciate it immensely if you would also explain why you waited for the AED to tell you what I've been saying all along. Tell us how you've contributed to a brain dead victim that you witheld CPR from? Lack of knowledge kills people. Also....you really want to represent Harvard?....

Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2312427)

You sound like a candidate for "Life Alert"...

Pushing the button will call 911, which will initiate the AED process.

Now, if you can't get to the door to open it, sorry, but that's a major problem. You'll have to wait for EMS to arrive and break in...

Originally Posted by Retired55 (Post 2311860)

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

Originally Posted by CarlR33 (Post 2312389)

Yes, I would agree. With any effort a (cost) benefit analysis must be done. Before you say a life is priceless has anyone realized that you would need to have a minimum of three people to utilize one of these AED’s, the victim, the spouse or responder who now has to now call 911, the third person to go get the AED or will the spouse just let the person wait there without administering CPR because getting the AED is more important? Lastly, I have not seen one of these at the community pools? Is there one at the community recreation center buildings or pickle ball courts, etc.? Sadly, what if one that was promised in a location is missing, not working, etc?

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham (Post 2311894)

Thanks for posting this perspective on Facebook groups. I have wondered "who appointed them boss?"....obviously themselves. It's wonderful that people take initiative to do stuff, but your ideas are valid. I along with you am not chastising any group and I believe them to have good intentions.

That being said, the same thing is happening in Lake Denham and I believe my neighbors want AED's but the only thing I know is.....they're collecting money.

Why I don't know more is purely my fault because:
1. I don't use Facebook
2. I'm a Snow Flake and I'm rarely at my TV home at this point,
but soon to be there full time
3. I haven't sought out the person spearheading the initiative
4. I can't commit to do anything at this time

Here are my thoughts on an AED program:
1. The best why to give an unresponsive person with no pulse is
IMMEDIATE INITIATION OF CPR...so teach everyone CPR
2. There is a good chance that the pulseless victim is in an
UNSHOCKABLE RYHTHM AND THE AED DOESN'T HELP SO
TEACH EVERYONE CPR
3. AED's do not provide CPR
4. AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000
disposable equipment. Are you purchasing replacement
batteries and who is funding that over the years? Who is
routinely checking for proper functionality? A dead AED is
worthless

I would think that someone wanting AED's would first talk to the entire neighborhood and rally the troops. Find out who knows ACLS and CPR. Who has done CPR. Who has used defibrillators to shock people into a survivable rhythm. Get a team of folks that are in the know and not afraid to help in an emergency. Have a phone list of folks that can and will help. An AED looking nice in a weatherproof box may give you warm and fuzziness but is worthless until properly utilized.

Again I'm not being mean.....I'm being realistic

Originally Posted by Retired55 (Post 2311860)

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

Originally Posted by vinnytalk (Post 2312352)

They have the right to organize whatever they want ,your option is to either join or not, but if you don't they may not come to your aid if you need it one day.

Why is this troubling you?

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2312277)

Maybe you should take the AED training to find out how it’s really done.

Originally Posted by Retired55 (Post 2311860)

This is a different view on an AED program that a group on Facebook is implementing, for the Village of Newell. It is a view no one on Facebook in the Group will comment on for fear of being outcast or attacked. That’s why its being posted here. This is not meant to attack the organizers or anyone who supports or has donated to the program. The organizer has mentioned to the group that some people where opposed to the Program but they do not understand why.

The group wants to install 25 AED devices throughout the Village, and is asking $100 per household.

First, the AED devises are a great Lifesaving tool and I think they are wonderful as I am also certified to operate one. But the program itself is not the issue.

Simply said, a Facebook group should not be making decisions for the entire Village, no matter how good or well meaning the project is. It is just a Facebook group; no one voted anyone in for this. It has created a situation where you are making people uncomfortable and pitting one side against another. This should not happen. The group is aggressively collecting money by going door to door, setting up tables at the mail and rec centers and other ways. Some people do not appreciate that and shouldn't have to explain why they do not want to contribute.

The Village of Newell is a beautiful community, with friendly neighbors who look out for each other and enjoy each others company. While this program is very thoughtful and well meaning, please understand that there may be some neighbors who do not agree, for their own reasons.

I'm sure money can be an issue with some people, and they shouldn’t have to explain that to anyone, or be made uncomfortable because of it.

There are lots of questions about the program itself but that is for a different conversation and is not really relevant to this view.

Please, this is just a different view not an argument.

I am curios what others in the Villages have to say on the issue.

Retired

Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2312577)

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2312577)

What knowledge might I gain that would make a difference with the points I raised? What is it that I've led you to believe that I don't already know? TIA

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2312620)

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com (Post 2312509)

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2312620)

[/U][/B]

Because you asked the questions..............................

Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2312666)

Might want to read what I posted again if contributing is your intent.

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 2312628)

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

Originally Posted by HORNET (Post 2312713)

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com (Post 2312509)

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2312656)

Good questions. The thread has sent me googling for additional info. 3 minutes looks to be an important cutoff level for successful outcomes. There are unsuccessful outcomes other than death. This makes me suspect that having them at places like Rec centers is a fine idea with plenty of potential for benefit.

*If* having them in less accessible areas with fewer folks in the vicinity and/or likely to be able to utilize them in time would mean a greater chance for having more folks surviving with brain damage, then that debate might be worth having. My wife knows *my* preferences for such a situation. Even has it in writing.

On another note, just read that a patient with ventricular fibrillation or "pulseless" ventricular tachycardia might still be breathing. While it's not likely to be "normal" breathing, I certainly don't feel trained enough to decide whether one's "level" of breathing, if present, is suitable for even initiating CPR. Heck, even a patient in fibrillation can have a "pulse" of sorts. Might even retain some level of "consciousness" (I just read) - however *that's* defined. Any handy "rules of thumb" on the subject out there to share?

One last rather disturbing statistic that turned up was that 7% of those suffering SCA - sudden cardiac arrest - survive without CPR or defibrillation. No clue how *that* works. But, CPR "only" (no defibbing) jumps that number up only to 9%.

Finally, the "kind of interesting" thing I learnt was that defibrillator "shock" is for *stopping* the heart and its electrical activity. Apparently this "pause" gives it a chance to "reorganize" itself electrically speaking. Way over my head, as is fine vs. coarse ventricular fibrillation.

Oh, one more that I hadn't ever understood but had kinda wondered about! A "heart attack" (enough blockage of a coronary artery) can lead to a shut-off of normal electrical activity of the heart and SCA.

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2312673)

///////

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com (Post 2312509)

I have always feared that having a complete 'AED' program would be a barrier for anyone to actually learn and practice CPR-The mention in another reply about a Village having had AED's for 20 years without ANY use is eye-opening-Are we able to gather any facts from VPSD about the existing programs? And how do we educate people to ensure CPR is the initial response and ensure we have a neighborhood filled with residents trained in CPR? I'm just a 'little dawg' in Lake Denham-but your posts are making sense to me-How do we engage and redirect now before it's too late? Noone is ill intentioned-but maybe ill-informed?

Originally Posted by asianthree (Post 2312543)

As mentioned earlier The fire department has a program for entry to homes without breaking down a door. Box with a key is added to outside home. No major problems involved.

Originally Posted by G.R.I.T.S. (Post 2312588)

I don’t think they are necessary. My call to 911 had EMTs in my kitchen in 5 minutes. Not enough time for a neighbor to be dispatched with an AED. We declined years ago to participate and haven’t been disparaged.

Originally Posted by HORNET (Post 2312713)

Sounds like a money maker for someone. Why not let each individual Village do their own thing!

Originally Posted by jayteadunn (Post 2312285)

I wanted to add some info to this. I've been in the fire service and ems since the mid 80's.

Most importantly the chance of survival diminishes by 10% for every minute it takes to get an AED physically on the patient. The fire dept has a goal of a firehouse within 2.5 miles of a home. With the 911 call, getting on the engine, and driving to the call its 5 minutes. 50% chance. The neighborhood groups add 20% to 30% to the chance of survival.

Absolutely early CPR is the key BUT imagine you rearranged your spark plug wires on your car in the wrong order. You can try to start that car all day and it will never run. A heart rhythm is like those spark plug wires. You can do CPR until the cows come home BUT if the heart is in the wrong rhythm the cpr isn't going to help. Shock the heart into the right rhythm and you are ready to have cpr start than engine.

I read a lot in this thread about the fire dept arriving first. The Villages Fire Rescue is BUSY. They do tons of medical calls every day. You don't need to believe me. Download the pulsepoint app to your phone. Choose sumter county and watch the calls. The unit numbers for the vehicles are shown for each call. Look how many do call after call. While the villlages wants firehouses every 2.5 miles to each home realize your unit can easily be on another call and now your waiting for the one 5 miles or 7.5 miles away. It is what it is. Look at the app and see how busy they are. You will be surprised.

Someone said "AED's run on batteries and in some cases are $2,000" I think they meant the brand new AED is $2,000. The unit the FD recommends now is a little under $2,000 which includes the battery which often is good for several years.

Someone said "what prevents these from being stolen?" many have padlocks and are keyed the same for the AED program and the rescuers are issued padlock keys.

Someone said "Actually the fire department has a program that a box holding a key can be placed on your home to gain entry" this is called a knox box and the villages fire rescue has keys which open the knox box. All of the knox boxes in the village are keyed alike so they can open it in an emergency and pull out your home key. I installed one, it was easy. With sales tax and shipping it was under $230. The vendor is VSC Fire & Security in Orlando 407-679-3332. You want the residential one. here is a short video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N-xXB2510o

Originally Posted by Ponygirl (Post 2312910)

Thank you to Big Dawg and others for talking abt the importance of initiating CPR immediately

I am a Red Cross certified BLS- CPR/AED/ first aid instructor trainer and high quality CPR is critical High quality CPR means using the correct
hand position and correct depth and tempo for compressions.

The manikins that we use for training have lights that indicate the correct depth and tempo to help students understand how to do the compressions correctly

So some referred to Hands Only or Compression Only CPR - no rescue breaths Keep compressions going without stopping until the area is unsafe or some relieves you or EMS arrives

If using rescue breaths The ratio is 30 compressions to 2 rescue breaths

We recently had a class at First Responders rec center

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 2312628)

I agree with Bogie. But more importantly, if you do not believe that you can accomplish a lifesaving activity, then simply don't volunteer. But why question a program that has saved several lives over the years here in TV? The neighborhood EMT programs here terrific. I am proud to be a volunteer responder. And yes, that includers coming to your aide if needed.

Originally Posted by BigDawgInLakeDenham (Post 2312787)

Mntlblok....the AED decides if it should give a shock based on VT/VF and say "SHOCK ADVISED". I guarantee you will seldom hear those words stated by the AED and why I keep saying CPR. You would not want to shock a person that is awake because you could stop their heart. You will learn about helping in certain scenarios and it's designed so everyone can learn it. The more trained help on scene the better.

I was on the receiving end in the ED as the RN doing CPR, pushing ACLS drugs, and running the defibrillator. We only saw positive outcomes when EMS was activated and CPR was immediately started. We're lucky to have Healthcare professionals amongst us bringing decades of know how....but it's on all of us to know what to do and how to do it because EMS and the ED are TOO far, at this point in time.

I just re-read all of the posts in this thread and I am disgusted by some posts that I can only assume are male Physicians claiming that no one is getting out of bed and that all Nurses are female, and the AED costs less than getting our nails done. Let me assure you than Nurses are not weak, they are all not female, and don't confront me about this post, if you are the male chauvinist pig, if you value your orbital bones.....think Laforte 4....I jest somewhat but please don't discount my female coworkers. Looks really bad on you

Originally Posted by mntlblok (Post 2312971)

I have all the respect in the world for first responder programs and their volunteers. That stuff is not easy and often not convenient for those doing the work. I presume that EMT programs are a version of that, but am unfamiliar. A two week hospital rotation with a couple of over-nights in an emergency room demonstrated that such things are most definitely not for me. Had an AED in my office for many years and was prepared to use it, but *really* hoped never to need to.

My pondering is about the practicality of this particular type of AED program. I have no problem with rational discussion of such subjects. But, I would be interested in hearing here about those lives saved to date, as well as maybe how specific situations have played out - especially "if ever" over 20 years as has been reported in specific programs. Googling for such information has not yielded much so far.

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 2313017)

I really don't understand your purpose. The neighborhood emergence response program has been in place for quite a while now. You seem to be looking for flaws in it. Why not take the training and get your answers firsthand? You will see for yourself that it is designed, implemented and overseen by the pros.