Union Value??
 

The latest strike is a great example of the lack of value.

Yes they wanted wages but they want job security thru the lack of automation.
That's nuts.
Of all these striking ports, "represented" by the union........none of them are in the Top 50 efficient ports in the world.
What's that light in the tunnel??

Pretty sad the USA labor is not a leader, it's not even close.
The cost of labor protectionism.

The vast majority of people don't want or need union representation.

Don't understand people in unions.

As the world passes us by.

I saw Harold Daggett also complaining bitterly about SunPass/EZPass, truly a Luddite thug.

His salary is +$700k, $1mil house in FL & $2mil house in NJ.

& the silly members are okay with this.

:faint:

The Choice to Exploit……
 

There are companies where perhaps a union is/was not needed. Many years ago I asked someone who worked in the manufacturing part of a huge, well-known company if they had a union. The response was, “We don’t need one.”

Also, said company made a lot of regular people very comfortable through profit-sharing. Can you imagine if companies like Walmart, for example, would have made profit-sharing available to ALL employees. Not only would there have been a lot of loyal employees on those cash registers, etc., just think of the learning experience that would have come from owning stock.

But a lot of companies plan to earn huge profits on the backs of employees and never consider how effective company stock all-around can be in moving a company forward with loyal employees. For companies that do not have stock, there are other ways to keep loyal employees and keep unions at bay. The employers’ choice to exploit is what brings in unions.

I am not saying all unions are perfect. But if unions are stomped into non-existence by those who have motives that risk our future overall economy, we will turn into another country.

This thread is going to turn into union-bashing. I can feel those wagons circling already.

Of course, most of those circling up will be the same people who expect teachers to devote their lives to working for basically nothing.

My point is — the middle class has been the backbone of our economy. Unions were instrumental in creating a strong middle class. If we lose our middle class, we are done. Unrestrained greed is bad economics.

Boomer, former union prez

I don’t have a problem with unions. But I don’t think unions should have a monopoly where one union controls all the ports on the east and south coast. We should have separate unions for each port and they should not be allowed to collude with other union in the other ports.

That way, 45,000 workers can’t impact the entire country.

The monopoly laws should apply to business and to labor.

Concentrated power is usually bad whether it is business, labor, or government.

I disagree. I am here because of a union. I had fair wages and a nice pension because of a union.

Saw this in my newsfeed. Seems to be an impartial article.

Why the dockworker strike was really an aging-workforce issue | Morningstar

Instead of trying to fly to the dead rock of Mars, Musk needs to create a US deep water port full of automation and non-union labor. This would put the existing stuck in the 1970's ports on notice that their days in the US are numbered. I'm sure he could find a place in Florida he could do this.

Bezos should do it to, as he stands to lose millions if he can't import his Amazon stuff. But he's too beholden to his masters to go up against them.

The world is not passing us by. That's just plain false. We are by far the most affluent country in the world. We have the best economy in the world, by far.

Unions will always be a target by those who prefer that profits go to corporations, their CEO's and senior management and shareholders, rather than working people. The middle class was strongest in this country when unions were strongest. This is indisputable economic facts.

These workers just got a 61.5% raise over the next 6 years. I think the union just did a great job. This one the heels of the UAW getting 40% increase over 4 years and Shawn Fain doing a great job. The folks who run these ports have seen their profits soar 350% over the last 10 years. I am glad the working man and woman is getting a fair share of that in this latest negotiation.

It's pretty simple. Unions are created to help the union members. If automation hurts the union members, they are going to be opposed to it. If school choice hurts public school union teachers, the union will be opposed to it even if it hurts students. The union exists to represent the union members. Period.

the union exists to represent the union members so we don't get screwed over by the company, period. ibew member for 40 years and proud of it.

1/2 of the membership is public...........nothing to do with "the company".

I'm proud of representing myself & not paying dues.

:eclipsee_gold_cup:

Yes, corporations are in the business of making money and maximizing shareholder value. There is nothing wrong with that. Hard working and productive employees, who contribute to that goal, are taken care of and workers who don’t shouldn’t be protected. Corporations aren’t evil and against their employees, they absolutely need good employees. If someone is a good and productive employee and their company doesn’t take care of them, their competitors will be more than happy to hire them. As far as the 61.5% union raises being good for the average working American, how is that? The average working American will be paying for those wage increases since that expense will be added to the cost of the goods they purchase.

I couldn't have said it better.

I also have an issue with some teachers unions in this day and age. I don't like the direction they take. Teachers are invaluable, but one can become a teacher, a good teacher without climbing as difficult an education path as a doctor. It is also a job that is somewhat more flexible than others. Good teachers ARE more valuable than diamonds. I realize because of the behaviors of children that teaching has become dangerous as well. I know so many people that teach for the vocation of teaching and that still makes me so proud.

The rest of the country should be more like Florida - crappy wages, crappy benefits, crappy pensions.

& Ur point??

Hey! You and I go back a long way — even if we have never met and have no idea who each other is.

Usually, I respect your opinions, but this time I must say when it comes to teachers’ unions, you have no idea what you are talking about. (I also know you will not report me to the admin as being a mean girl trying to scar your psyche. We’ll be OK.)

I must assume you have no problem with private money taking your tax money to promote their private agenda and run schools as a money-maker.

My guess is also that you do not know anything about how tenure works. All tenure protects is the right to due process.

AND I can tell you right now, and in no uncertain terms, that nobody wants to see bad teachers gone more than good teachers want bad teachers out.

IF (some) school administrators would get off their butts, get out of their offices, go into classrooms, and evaluate teachers on a regular basis, tenure would not be an issue if firing would be needed. Get that paper trail going and GET RID of the bad ones before they get to tenured status.

But nope. Lazy-azz principals love to holler, “TENURE!” and claim their hands are tied. NOT SO! It’s just that pesky due process they have to be ready for if they let a bad one go on and on and on. Tenured teachers can be fired, but principals have to do a little work if they have allowed tenured status to be reached. Due process. That is what tenure protects. But teachers cannot fire other teachers. Administrators need to do their jobs from the beginning.

Maybe I will return later and patiently explain how being an excellent teacher but having reached the top of the salary scale could bite one in the azz if it were not for tenured status. I bet you can figure that one out, anyway.

Well, enough from me. I am scheduled to go hang out with people I can actually see. Retired teachers will be among them.

Boomer

I have known both of you for some time.

He is making more sense here. Much more sense......

I don't have any issue with corporations making a profit, since I am a capitalist, and have invested in them and those investments enabled me to retire early. However, I am under no illusions of grandeur when it comes to how they treat their employees.

The poster who said that corporations want good employees and are willing to pay them is mostly correct, up until a point. Check out the number of folks who make it to 65 with their companies. You might be shocked. There used to be a social contract in this country that an employee would stay with a company for life, and you would be good to them and they would be good to you. In my opinion, this was contract was broken by corporations in the 80's. This is when layoffs and off-shoring began.

As you approach your late 50's in corporate America, watch out. Two things happen at around this time....you are at or near the top of the salary scale, and you cost your company the most for health insurance. Once again, the numbers of folks who make it to 65 are on record....many years of working for a company could mean nothing when it comes to replacing someone at 1/2 of their salary and 1/4 of their insurance cost. Employees rarely see this coming, yet it happens to many of this age group.

That's the kind of thing that unions do prevent. There is no question that our middle class was stronger when unions were stronger.

As for the longshoremen increasing costs for everyone, this is not necessarily so. Maybe instead of a 350% increase in profits over 10 years, the ports will be happy to share some of those profits with their employees in the form of higher wages and they will be content to make 300% increase in profits over the next 10 years and have happy employees as well.

My point is that when you have a state that is rabidly anti-union, you get the employee paradises that are Florida., or Alabama, or Mississippi, or Louisiana. /s

Hey, Wilson, your pot-stirring is a success. Responses are numerous and transparent and predictable and entertaining — for a while.

Out now. Bye.

Boomer

And I don't claim "to have known you (or anybody else) for a long time," but this is very well said and makes much sense.
I suppose many don't choose to remember robber barons (wealthy, powerful, and unethical American industrialists and financiers in the 19th century") as the reason unions came into being in the first place. Robber baron | Definition, Significance, & Captains of Industry | Britannica Money

I was never in a union; I'm just appalled at what's been happening to the middle class.

Nobody here actually knows me either, except through my words.

Just want to say I agree with you. History does repeat itself.

Boomer

Not pot-stirring.................just don't think there is value to unions.

Union supporters talk out-of-date fearmongering information.

An union supporting posters aren't saying anything new and are marching right in line.

It's not even close...................90% of employees are non-union.

Not seeing the direct relationship.

Facts:
Here are the states with the highest union membership rates in 2023:
Hawaii: 24.1%
New York: 20.6%
Washington: 16.5%
New Jersey: 16.1%
Connecticut: 15.9%
California: 15.4%
Alaska: 14.8%
Vermont: 14.3%
Oregon: 14.1%
Minnesota: 13.3%

In contrast, the states with the lowest union membership rates in 2023 were:
South Carolina: 2.3%
North Carolina: 2.7%
South Dakota: 3.6%
Arizona: 4.8%
Louisiana: 5.2%

As UAW produced vehicles become more and more unaffordable. They will need that 100% tariff on Chinese EV's to survive.

Interesting conversation about values
 

Values that you have established and no one will change your minds. Those who are union members are easily identified and those who worked for a corporation that actually paid and provided benefits and no fear of lay-offs can be identified. I grew up in Baltimore near Sparrows Point Bethlehem Steel Mill and the Dundalk Marine Terminal. Everyone around me worked there.Think Francis Scott Key Bridge getting knocked down. Was there and could hear the collapse from my house. Everything was good until blue gave away American know how. Unions quickly became unnecessary and only a minority cling to unions because they don't want to or can't get a job with an actual company. Drug testing comes into play for many in my "neighborhood" nowadays. Speaking of my "neighborhood" I can say without hesitation that the Longshoremen are terribly overpaid and work second jobs or ride one of their motorcycles while they are on the clock. Unions provide their workers with too much protection that they routinely abuse their system and brag about it. No longer the people I grew up with, but all diversity and equity hires. Of course they demand more money to not work because that is exactly what Unions represent. Many collect welfare while getting paid 6 figures. I know this for a fact. Unions are selfish and not for America. Unions are the modern Mafia. You know where I stand

Yet there is a strong correlation between states with the lowest union membership, and highest number of people on some kind of government program, the lowest salaries, the lowest life expectancies, the worst health coverage, the highest rates of uninsured, and the highest poverty rates.

This is indisputable. The numbers don't lie.

Well...
 

You just described the entire nation. Outside the bubble is a dying economy and nation. I still have to go out there and it's very scary

So you believe it's solely union membership related and not the demographic makeup of the population? Would you expect these populations to be conditioned to actually work for a living after Johnson's Great Society Program??? I'll answer for you..absolutely not. They get paid to stay home and the more babies they make, the more they get paid to stay home. This leads to multiple fathers that don't raise the child which leads to misdirection and a life of crime and a vicious cycle...need I go on?

Just look at Publix
 

Publix has given employees ownership since the very first store was opened. Even ******* get stock after a year as a bonus. Stock has made most very comfortable at retirement. Today employees or ex-employees own over 50% of the company. Must work there to buy Publix stock. Sell it and you sell it back to the Publix.

This country was founded by a union. 13 colonies, remember? Organized labor. Or do you prefer self checkout while the person who was at a register is now unemployed? Union Ironworker for 40 years, I have what I have because of it. Proud of it!

I have held jobs that were unionized and not unionized - unions are a way to stifle midernatiin because they only think of having more members so the union. Oases can suck the life out of the members!!!

Why don’t the Unions ever start a Company? After all, they know best how to make and share profits.

The monopolies in unions, specially the public unions where the customer has no alternative choices is a big issue. In private company unions at least you have a choice, if for example a car made by GM gets too expensive you can buy another brand. In public unions such as schools or federal workers unions there is a lot of unfunded liabilities in many States due to the defined pensions that decades ago the private sector also offered but not anymore switching to 401K contributions.
It is the one reason that the public unions vote 95% for the democrats as they pat each others backs. Basically the public unions don’t want themselves and their jobs and compensation be subject to market forces as much as in the private sector. The same market forces of outsourcing blue collar and then white collar jobs by both parties egged on by Wall Street.
That’s what led to the 2016 political shakedown by Trump on the right and Bernie Sanders on the left.

I’ve been a union member since 1986. I paid 1% of my salary in union dues. My union is responsible for getting me the investment options that allowed me to retire comfortably and move here. I only needed union representative help once, but it was there when I needed it, and it helped me get treated fairly.

If you read scholarly books about the history of labor unions, you can see that they came about because so many company owners treated workers as little better than slaves. They didn’t care if their workers were in poverty. Collective bargaining is responsible for generations of poor workers leaving poverty behind, getting better housing, sending their kids to college.

A lot of us in The Villages are here because labor unions fought to get us or our parents or grandparents health care benefits and pension benefits and higher wages. If not for unions, the many thousands of us who are here because we have pensions or were able to invest part of our salaries wouldn’t be here. We’d be trying to scrape by on Social Security.

Lots of factory workers from past generations saw their jobs disappear—from the mills of New England and Pennsylvania to North Carolina and Georgia, but then off to China and Mexico and other places. Union membership didn’t stop that, but it helped forestall it for a few years and get better treatment. Sometimes, though, the union managed to keep the factories running.

Can you say Mafia!

LOL, sounds more like a public sector union in NYC or Chicago.

Wow, they did do a great job. Trying to remember when the last time I got a raise even close to that large....Oh, ya, NEVER. So either they were previously grossly UNDERpaid (Did the union bosses not do their job previously?) or they are asking for an exorbitant raise which no one else in the work force anywhere sees.