So you think the USA is ready for EV's ?
 

We often hear the naysayers claim the USA Electric Grid can't support a major conversion to EV's.

& many think that's a load of baloney.

We're converting a 200 Room Hotel, with 20,000 sq ft of event space, to a 300 unit Condominium. It's locate on a major US Interstate, in a sophisticated, wealthy suburb of Boston, less than 20 miles outside the city.

The electric grid/distribution system can't supply sufficient electricity to the site, without a infrastructure upgrade to the property line. They sent us the cost estimate on Friday.

$21,129,000. $70,000/unit. Total cost to provide electrical service, so each unit can run some lights & a toaster, is over $100,000.

How much would you have to price each unit at to make a profit and cover these costs?

Without the details it's difficult to know what work is being done but in general, infrastructure is expensive.

What would have been the cost to run a larger water line or larger sewer line to the property? What about a larger access road to handle the additional traffic? You chose electricity but expansion of any of those would have come with a cost too.

Is the USA ready for EVs? One estimate said there are 10 million on the road today. Either the USA is ready for 10M EVs or there are 10M customers with very heavy, immovable statues in their garages.

Is the US infrastructure robust enough today to support thousands more EV charging stations? Probably not. Will it ever be? Yes, but when that will be and what it will look like is unknown. Who knows how many EVs can the US support with its current infrastructure? We may find out soon.

I'm from Boston. Just curious what town this Condo project will be located?

I don't know that the US will ever have the electricity or infrastructure such as charging stations, enough for the nation. I also don't think that level is necessary and believe a blend of both type vehicles would be best. We strictly drive gas powered vehicles at this point but wouldn't rule out one electric vehicle and one ice vehicle for our household in our younger days. Given our ages, it probably will be more of a decision for the next generations to make since we need reliability. I'm totally against mandating electrical vehicles for everyone since they bring their own bucket of problems and aren't green energy clean either.

The condos are projected to be in the $500,000 range. We're estimating that our "contribution" to the electrical infrastructure will be in the $5M range or about $20,000/unit.

I changed out my 20 year old AC and cut my bill in summertime in half.
All my neighbors still have their original units.
Think of the pressure it will take off the "grid" when everyone has ultra efficient units.
Plenty of room for cars

I think saving the world, one Air Conditioner at a time, is a great start. Try to get your neighbors on the program, in case someone in the neighborhood buys an EV. I think the ratio is about 3 AC's to 1 EV.

Electrical demand is actually increasing after being stagnant for a decade. AI data centers are a big factor. Changing AC's won't help much.

Ahhh but, the immigrants cleaning those rooms is in short supply!

Whatever comes for EV's in the future I can't predict.
What surprises me is people paying $80.000 + for their EV and thinking their saving the planet.

Most EVs are cleaner than most ICE vehicles. Whether that matters is a personal decision.

I wish an EV had been a valid option when I was commuting to workplaces, it would have saved me a lot of money. As it was, we really benefited from the Prius hybrid. Today, we take long driving trips that would be difficult in an EV.

Long distance power transmission over fixed infrastructure is what hurts us today. In order to move more power the infrastructure needs to be improved and that becomes prohibitively expensive. We would have the same problem if we had to move gasoline to the stations via pipelines; it would greatly limit when and where we could build new stations, new cities, and new roads.

What we don’t have today is a means of delivering power any other way, either it’s on a wire from an existing power plant or it doesn’t happen. What we’ll need is a more efficient delivery system or more local power plants. Then we can start building EV charging stations as easily as we build ICE fueling stations. I’ve not kept up with any advances in those areas.

Well then, I guess EV's aren't the problem

And none of this even begins to address the process of producing electricity. We all don't live next to Hoover Dam. We can't cover all vacant ground with solar panels which may be damaged in storms not to mention the cost of charging stations. There is a much larger picture that has never been addressed as to how, where and when will such massive electricity be available.

Really too early to tell. If you google “ are EV’s cleaner than ICE vehicles” plenty of theory’s in long run it may or may not be better? IMO it really doesn’t matter to us over 70 we will be long gone before electric vehicles will be norm. Or something else comes along better?

But, but, I got outlet and it magically produced electricity? So far……

Not sure what this had to do with EV’s but you might create a bond for the condo’s and pass it on, just saying.

Still have that darn rare earth problem.

The frustrating part for me, the road to the production of inexpensive electricity has been available for many years .... nuclear. France generates 70% of their electricity, using nuclear power.

Most of the world doesn't operate like The Villages.

We should be doing much more nuclear power generation

Solar, wind electricity generators for every structure (homes, businesses, government facilities) would take most of the load off the "grid" and could possibly even eliminate a need for centralized generation facilities. Would virtually eliminate effective terrorist attacks on centralized generators and distribution systems. Of course those who control power would fight it.
As for personal transportation an advanced hybrid system, which uses a gas or diesel/electric system where the ev powers the vehicle, and the gas or diesel engine keeps the electricity storage topped up as it is used. Also, other types of engines are being developed as we discuss gas vs electric. Changes are coming faster all the time. Time for converting H2O in your tank into hydrogen to power your vehicle, and oxygen to add to the air around you. It already exists.
Electric vehicles have been around for decades, just like gas. Just needed better batteries. Debating ice vs ev is debating the better option of old technology. Time to look forward to a better, cheaper, safer, more practical technologies, many which are currently available, and others already in testing.

I’ve seen some calculations on this. Essentially, if all autos in the US were replaced with EVs right now, then we would be shy about 1000 TWhs (per year). This is about 25% of the current US electricity production, which has been flat for about a decade. Since the process of replacing ICE autos with EVs will take many decades, we have that long to ramp up production and distribution of electricity by 25% over today’s levels. Smart charging strategies, such as incenting people to charge at night when demand is low, may modify this figure. There are only about 2.4 million EVs in the US out of almost 300 million autos.

I worked in the office that managed the .GOV Internet domain back in the mid-to-late nineties. Common knowledge back then was there wasn't enough bandwidth to handle the load of PKI authentication for websites and probably never would be. Today, there are orders of magnitude more websites and 99% of them use PKI for secure connections, including this one (see the https:\\ when you click in the address bar?).

Never mind the electrical grid to charge cars, which it can’t do now, but imagine just one companies fleet of semi trucks. Power companies and municipalities are laughing at them.
Next, consider the environmental impact of just what it takes to manufacture a car/truck battery. That alone is another huge environmental problem.
Now we haven’t even got to the infrastructure yet. Roads, bridges, parking garages are NOT designed for all the added weight.
So yeah, you THINK you are doing well driving ev. But it’s just the opposite when you look at the big picture.
You have been snookered by something we can’t mentioned on here, lest we get kicked off.
Green it is not.

California regularly has rolling blackouts yet they want everyone in electric cars. The grid cannot handle the load. It makes no sense.

Hopefully their estimate of time and money for your electrical infrastructure upgrade is closer than the famous Big Dig.

Monopoly pricing

"..ready for EVs?" .............NO!

Not for a primary means of transportation. Urban use, okay. EVs have been around since the 1800's but have never developed into a viable means of primary transportation. On the other hand, subway systems are EV and golf carts work fine for golf courses.
In my opinion, there are other alternatives that might be more suitable replacements for gasoline, such as hydrogen for example.

Unfortunately, the US is falling behind year after year in modernization in technology. We are still doing things like the 1970’s when we could have built up our infrastructure. You travel to other countries that have kept up in modern infrastructure, like Dubai, and it’s shocking how behind we really are because our government doesn’t want to modernize. I sometimes wonder if that’s due to the average age of congress members. Older ways of thinking wanting to take us back to “good ole days” instead of moving forward.

Yes, I own an EV and love it. I didn’t buy it “to save the planet”. I bought it because I like the lifestyle…no more oil changes/maintenance, no more needing to always go gas up, better technology. The first time my new EV needs to go to the dealership for maintenance is in its 3rd year and it’s just to run diagnostics. I like that. I also like that BMW has batteries that have individual cells, so if at any time in the future there are battery issues, you don’t replace an entire battery but only those cells that are faulty (80 cells). Much lower cost replacing individual cells. The US will be prepared when our government decides it wants to join countries with advanced infrastructure instead of old technologies. I’m sure young people will be pushing us into the future with many kicking and screaming.

Duke Energy encourages EV’s. They just started a new program that they will reimburse you (by a check) for up to $850 to install your 220 plug in the garage for charging your EV. My total bill for install was $875, so Duke paid all but $25. Obviously, with that perk they are encouraging EV’s.

Tesla has the solution with their solar roof, power wall, and the best selling EV on the planet. Of course, you can do part or all of that.

Mandates gone
 

In case you didnt know the California EV mandates are gone. This means Americans can decide if they are ready to buy one. One thing that no one talks about:the level of emf radiation that the cabin of an ev puts out. This would be the first thing I would ask if I was considering buying one.

I purchased my 2024 Tesla M3 for $34,000 last Oct and have yet to use a super charger. I enjoy using FSD and need to charge at home about once a week. We also have a Honda CRV hybrid that my wife drives:smiley:

The marketplace is the best decision maker for EV demand. I don't agree with government mandates or subsidies. For some people EVs work, for others they don't. I am a concerned thar EVs will be much harder to dispose of when they are worn out.

There will be more than enough power for EVs, as long as there is a profit motivation anything can be done. I'm sure most people thought gas power cars were impracticable how could you have enough gas to supply a nation full of those tin box's and who needs it anyway we have horses.
My first computer was an Atari, I was impressed I could write programs and make it do things, now I look back and I think what a joke.
Look once the infrastructure is put into place and some improvements are made to the cars themselves people will start switching over. Less expensive to maintain and operate, convenient you can wake up in the morning and the EV will be full charged and when on the highway you won't have to pull off there will be charging unit along the way.
Just look around today and look back 50 years ago and all the things you probably did not believe would have existed.

DARPA has created wireless power transmission. It should just be a few years and it will arrive.

DARPA smashes wireless power record, beaming energy more than 5 miles away — and uses it to make popcorn | Live Science

How do people without garages or driveways charge their cars overnight? Think apartments, condos , street parking, etc.

It looks like this person is buying (or bought?)a hotel in a particularly tricky location. Presumably the building is getting power now (?) but they want more. Which definitely means EV's are a hard NO forever and ever. It's obvious logic.

Joe

Elon Musk doesn't agree with your assessment. We are 30 years away from accommodating even a 40 % conversion to EVs.

We had an oxygen genorator on my submarine. It split pure water into hydrogen and oxygen. We affectionately called it "the bomb" because of how dangerous it is to have oxygen and hydrogen together by an electrical source. If something goes wrong, it will explode.

A lot of work will be needed to make such a thing safe during a traffic accident.

The other issue is the increased in oxygen would cause insects to grow larger and larger. Many have size limitations due to their method of obtaining oxygen. In the Earths past, when Oxygen levels were much higher, some dragonflies grew to be 17" long with. 28" wingspan. Now, that was with a 50% oxygen level. But what would it be if a billion people (about 10%of the world's population), produced excess oxygen?

Wildfires would burn hotter, but people would find all activities easier, helping many.

The vehicles would need to burn off the excess oxygen or do something to prevent its release into the air.

The other issue is getting pure water for the cars. Pure water has to be made, it does not exist in nature. Even rainwater captures impurities from the air, dust and whatnot.