What the GOP must do
 

I think the government is too big butWhat the GOP needs to do is stop calling Government workers parasites on the tax dollars.

I would never support abortion butWhat the GOP needs to do is stop calling Pro-choice people baby killers.

I believe in our higher power butWhat the GOP needs to do is stop stop asking GOD to fix the problems and come up with solutions that will benefit enough Americans to get elected.

What the GOP needs to do to get elected is find a candidate that speaks for Americans and not just a hand full of special interest groups. When we support the likes of Perry, Palin, Bachmann, we are wasting our vote and fragmenting the party into oblivion. But at least the Liberals love it, so some good comes out of it.

All of the above is good, but all that WE THE PEOPLE need to do, is actually make the government follow the Constitution.

Finally!!!! Someone from the right that makes sense. :icon_wink:

Imagine if God answered some of those - might He say "I sent Jesus and he showed you what to do but you have no charity for the meek!"

I am heading for the golf course right now, but will take this thought with me for afternoon posting.

Great posting, Villager II.

Just curious to what Jesus would think about aborting babies?:mad:

:ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear::ohdear:

We'll never know.

Really?; you can't figure this theological question, in keeping with Christianity, out? C'mon, you know the answer.

Well, I'll say it. No one who believes in Jesus as Lord can, in keeping with their faith, be pro-abortion. End of story.

I have worked with many families who felt like you just stated until their young daughters got pregnant.....and NO I had nothing to do with abortion clinics or Family Planning.

I know what you're saying. I have a family member who is an every Sunday going to church lady, and lives a normal Christian life. Yet; she's pro-abortion (she would say pro-choice; but it means the same thing), for all the reason's people have. It does not jive with any serious teaching or practice of a devout Christian to believe in the aborting of a human life.

I don't want to get into a whole social consciousness discussion here; I'm just speaking as to the practice of Christianity.

My departure from strict Christian teaching is in the prevention of conception, as in "birth control". I think the Church needs to rethink that. I don't think Jesus would have much to say to that, either. Pre-conception is not life, in my way of thinking and the Church should step back on that teaching.

Not in my opinion. I am firmly against anyone having an abortion, however, I would vote pro-choice over and over. I say it is far to serious of a decision for one person to make for another. And I especially have a problem with men telling women they are wrong. The law of the United States deems it legal, so abide by the law or change the law, but stay out other peoples business.

Pro-choice and pro-abortion are two entirely different beliefs. I am a Christian and I am a citizen of the United States. Our laws respect both the rights of the mother and the rights of the infant. As an American, I must respect these laws providing liberty to others just as I respect those laws that provide freedom of speech.

Christ was very clear when he said, "Render unto Cesar that which is Cesar's and render unto God that which is God's." I do not favor abortion, but I also do not have the right to impose my views on others.

I agree with you, but the Church has it's stand on the issue, so it is a sin whether you agree with it or not. I am always fascinated by people's religious beliefs versus what they tell themselves to make the things that they do, which do not jive with the their religions teachings, to make it OK. I think most people do this, regardless of their religion. I do it; you do it and I think most everyone does. For heaven's sake, how many folks break the no premartial sex tenet?
I went to Loyola University and got to know so many priests and nuns and was "shocked" at their private beliefs versus the "party line." I was young and foolish then...LOL. Nothing much shocks me now.

amen

Agree, and anybody who says pro-choice is different then pro-abortion is only fooling themselves. Your either for abortion or against it.

:confused:I hear alot of you saying that you are against abortion and yet you support pro-choice. I am curious to know why you are against abortion...eh? :confused:

I am against abortion because I personally would be to weak to handle the mental part after the procedure was completed. Also, I love the process of pregnancy, birth and child rearing through adulthood. I guess that means (for me) that abortion is just wrong. Thats me, but I do not have the right to raise the flag of condemnation on someone else for doing what they believe to be the right thing. We have far too much state and federal government interference in our personal lives right now.

Me too:laugh:


You, a mature grown man, close to retirement age, are too weak to handle the mental part after the procedure was completed! I can thoroughly respect that...Me too! I just wonder how much stronger is a young lady who has no idea that there is even going to be a mental part after the procedure is completed. It is not a requirement in most states to inform the woman of these post abortion difficulties. See the Virginia Abortion Law thread, where I recently posted the "after procedure" data as researched by federal agencies. The statistics aren't pretty. Shouldn't we at least pursue legislation to protect them and give them that information as part of their choice?

here ya go...information taken from this link-http://afterabortion.org/post-abortion-review-index/



Over 90 percent are done in freestanding abortion centers. With almost no exceptions, these abortion mills have no supervision, are not state inspected and are not required to have emergency resuscitation equipment. They have inadequate ambulance facilities, often have no RN’s on duty and, most importantly, no qualified surgeon to do the work.

The only requirement to do abortions in almost every state is an MD or a DO degree. You can be a dermatologist and open an abortion facility. You can be a hack, denied surgical or even admitting privileges in any hospital, and still do abortions.

In fact, many abortionists are these kinds of incompetent doctors ~

When confounding factors are eliminated, a picture has emerged of a broad spectrum of problems resulting from abortion. Let us list some:


Maternal Deaths: Compared to childbirth, women who have abortions have an elevated risk of death later from all causes. This persists for at least 8 years. A higher risk of death from suicide and accidents are most prominent. Projected on the national population, this effect may contribute to 2000-5000 additional deaths among women each year.1


Psychiatric Hospitalization: A review of the medical records of 56,741 Medicaid patients revealed that the women who had had abortions were 160 percent more likely to be hospitalized for psychiatric treatment in the first 90 days following abortions, as compared to those who delivered. Rates of such treatment remain significantly higher for at least 4 years.


Clinical Depression: Compared to women who carry their first unintended pregnancy to term, women who abort their first pregnancy are at a significantly higher risk of clinical depression, as measured in an average of 8 years after their first pregnancy.3


Substance Abuse: Compared to women who carry to term, women who abort are 5 times more likely to subsequently abuse drugs or alcohol.4
Outpatient Psychiatric Care: Analysts of California Medicaid records show that women who have abortions will subsequently require significantly more treatment for psychiatric illness through outpatient care.5


Effect on Children: The children of women who have abortions, have less supportive home environments and more behavioral problems than the children of women without a history of abortion. This finding supports the view that abortion may negatively effect bonding with subsequent children and disturb mothering skills. It may not only have such negative effects upon the children, but in very significant ways impact women’s psychological stability.6


Substance Abuse During Subsequent Pregnancies: Compared to women delivering their first pregnancy, women with a history of abortion are five times more likely to use illicit drugs and two times more likely to use alcohol during their next pregnancies. Besides the negative effects on the women, these substances place their unborn children at risk of birth defects, low birth weight and death.7


Long Term Clinical Depression: Analysis of a federally funded longitude study of American women revealed that women who aborted were 65 percent more likely to be at risk of long-term clinical depression, after controlling for age, race, education, marital status, history of divorce, income and prior psychiatric state.8


Placenta Previa: After abortion there’s a 7 to 15-fold increase in placenta previa in subsequent pregnancies. This abnormal development of the placenta is due to damage to the lining of the womb from the abortion. It can be fatal for the women. It also increases the risk of birth defects, stillbirth and excessive bleeding during labor.


Premature Birth: Premature birth is a well-documented after-effect of induced abortion. This is due to damage to the cervix, which results in an increased incident of premature births. Preemies die more often than full term babies and have more frequent disabilities resulting from the premature birth. Such problems obviously have continuing negative emotional impact on the women.


Ectopic Pregnancy: Women have an increased risk of subsequent tubal (ectopic) pregnancies. These can be life threatening; they also reduce future fertility.


Other Post-Abortion Problems: Thirty to fifty percent of such women report experiencing sexual dysfunction such as promiscuity, loss of pleasure from intercourse, increased pain and aversion to sex and men. Women with a history of abortion are significantly more likely to subsequently have shorter relationships and divorce more often.

Women with a prior abortion are four times more likely to have a repeat abortion in the future than those who have no abortion history. Note: 45 to 47 percent of all abortions are now repeat abortions.

The significant increase in breast cancer among women who have had abortions is well known. With a higher rate of Human Papilloma Virus (HPV) infections, they also have a higher risk of cervical cancer. Since smoking is sharply increased among post-abortion women, one could anticipate a possible greater incident of lung cancer.

And finally, one cannot overlook the fact that 10 percent of women suffer immediate complications. These include infection, hemorrhage, cervical injury, blood clots, anesthesia complications, chronic abdominal pain, Rh sensitization, gastro-intestinal disturbances, vomiting, fever and occasionally, endotoxic shock.

Note that while many of the above complications fall under the sequelae included under “Post-Abortion Syndrome,” there is much, much more guilt, distress and heartbreak not directly reflected in the above.

Conclusion
We now have enough definitive studies about women who’ve had abortions to totally refute any attempt by pro-abortion zealots to claim that abortion is safer than childbirth. The above complications are an incomplete list, but space prevents further elaboration.

Our thanks go to Dr. David Reardon, Director of the Elliot Institute, who is the author of most of the studies quoted above. To contact the Elliot Institute for more documentation, visit www.afterabortion.org.

1 Southern Medical Journal 2002
2 Pregnancy Associated Deaths in Finland 1987 - 1994, M. Gissler At All Acta Obstet. Gynecal. Scandi 76, 1997, p. 651-657, graphs from Elliot Institute.
3 British Medical Journal 2002
4 American Journal of Drug and Alcohol Abuse 2000
5 American Journal of Ortho Psychiatry 2002
6 Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry 2002
7 American Journal of Ob-Gyn 2002
8 Medical Science Monitor 2003
[By J.C. Willke, MD, Life Issues Connector, April 2006]

I'm not arguing about that. I know what the law is, but that don't make it Christian. If you want to hedge on your faith and approve the practice of abortion, that's between you and God.

What I'm saying is for a Christian to approve of abortion is hypocritical and against the teachings of your religion. That's just a fact.

If you can face Jesus and tell him "I've supported the right to abort human life"; that's is your prerogative.

Information from this link in reference to Christian Bible-The Word of God http://www.bible.com/bibleanswers_result.php?id=211....In Exodus 21:22 God gives a specific law regarding social order for the Israelites. He stated that if two men were fighting and hit a pregnant woman, thus causing her to give birth prematurely, they must be fined according to any damage done to the baby. The fine must be paid in relation to the amount of damage inflicted upon the child. If God would make a law specifically referring to the rights of the unborn, then surely the unborn must mean something to Him!

In Jeremiah God said to the prophet Jeremiah, Before I formed you in the womb I knew you. Before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations. Jeremiah 1:5 God knew this man before he was born. As he was forming in his mother's womb God gave him his personality, talents, and temperament. If his mother had gotten an abortion, the "fetal tissue" she aborted would have been a real person named Jeremiah; a mighty prophet of God and the gift of God's voice to the nations, though she would never have known.

The Lord hath called me from the womb: from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. Isaiah 49:1 KJV

Did not he who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same one form us within our mothers? Job 31:15

For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Psalm 139:13-14

Bravo Katzpajamas.... Your response was very detailed and well reasoned out. I am against abortion because it lends itself for allowing people to avoid their responsibility. I also believe it is wrong because if forces taking power prfer pragmatism over ethical application of our laws they will have no problem making a logical progression from abortion to claiming they can alleviate the suffering of people with diabilities and continue on to undesirables, etc. It is simply a dangerous mind set. I believe we should spend our effort and our resources on working for more civil and human oriented solutions such as adoption.

I do not wish to get political but look closley at what % of the women who have abortions have more than one and who they are.

I believe pro choice should mean that a woman has the choice of getting pregnant or not getting pregnant

:agree::agree::agree:
WOW rubicon. You are SPOT ON! I recently read "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) She strongly advocated the sterilization of the less desireable "feeble minded" and ethnic cleansing to perfect our society. It's pretty gruesome stuff that she wrote about and I personally equate most of it with the views of Hitler. Link to eBook-The Pivot of Civilization by Margaret Sanger http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1689/...h.htm#2HCH0009

Thus sayeth Richie. :cus:

What does that mean? Is this some form of Flaming? Cannot you write a complete sentence that has some form of meaning? All you do is write remarks and never contribute anything coherent. You must be proud.:ohdear:
Are you on that train that VillageII talks about all the time?

Witty comeback.

Do you take issue with what I've said. Feel free to dispute what I said and we can discuss it.

Or continue to post nonsense. It only demeans one person, and that isn't me.

The midnight train follows the rain....we all wear our own thorny crown. :cus:

I have not seen any statements from the pro-life posters here about abortion in the case of rape or incest. Should that woman (or even a young girl) be forced to give birth to a child spawned by rape or incest? Before jumping on that answer, how would you react personally if the rape or incest victim was your wife, daughter, or grand-daughter?

Wow, what a mind. You must have a book of quotes by your side.

Again let me try to explain Buggy. We're talking Christian theology. We're discussing Christian teachings, their faith and their covenants with God.

Do you believe in the teachings, the word of Jesus Christ or not? If not, what makes you Christian?

I am stating no opinion here on abortion. I personally do not like abortion but I can see where someone might consider it necessary.

However, what would Jesus do? Jesus was a Jew. He grew up as a Jew. If he was a Talmud thumping Jew, he probably would have called for the death of the abortionist be it a midwife or the mother. Who ever caused the death of the fetus. An eye for an eye.

Would this justify running around killing abortion practitioners? The women who request abortions? It is God's law perhaps we should let God enforce it.

I firmly believe that we should discourage abortion. But in the end I think anyone who has an abortion will have to stand before their God in final judgment.

Just a thought

Superior factual posts by Katzpajamma. I can surely respect the post by Richielion showing devout spiritual loyalty and faith. Now I would love to see what Katz has to say about this post since I fall into this type of thinking. If I am wrong, put me on the right path. CMANN has pitted Old Testament against New Testament and hits my way of thinking right in the bullseye. If I am wrong in my thinking, I believe the answer is in this very post, I just can't break it down. Please give a response to CMANN Katz.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste. :cus:

Rape and Incest-In the case of rape, I am assuming that the rapist would not be sticking around to raise the child nor care for the needs of the mother. Jesus had this to say ...James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. It is our responsibility to speak for and protect these little living souls per the directive of our Savior.

Killing of the abortionist?-Jesus, who we Christians believe to be God in the flesh, said in Exodus 20:13 "You shall nor murder." I think that we already have laws in this country addressing the crime of murder. Life begins at conception as I have addessed in previous threads, the Virginia abortion law thread comes to mind. In Ohio if you take a life, you quite possible could find yourself on death row. It is a matter that must be handled by enforcers of our laws.

If I understand Katz, she says that a 12 year girl rape victim and gets pregnant - should be forced to give birth. Quoting some scripture does not do that 12 year old girl any good, Katz. Shouldn't it be up to each person to do as they feel right?

Richie did not answer my question but tried turning the table by asking me my religious viewpoint. Sorry, Richie, that did not work. Will you answer my question or just decline - which is your right to do, of course.

I think you meant to quote (or misquote) the words of Jesus not Katz...

The forgotten victims of rape are also children....http://www.righttoliferoch.org/nforgotten.htm

Tell that to the victims of rape...like they had a choice.