The Lady Lake meeting to discuss the Paradise Dr. Cart Access
 

For those of you who plan to attend the meeting tomorrow evening regarding the Golf Cart Thoroughfare to/from Paradise Drive, below is my letter to Mayor Richards regarding my opinions on the matter.

I urge my fellow Stonecrest neighbors as well as other open minded neighbors to print this out and bring it to the meeting in an effort to ensure that these issues will be discussed.

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Dear Mayor Richards,

Attached please find a copy of the letter from Gary Moyer to Janet Tutt regarding the removal of the recently erected wall and recommending approval by the VCCDD to take ownership of the golf cart thoroughfare that was approved by the Town of Lady Lake in 1998. It further indicates that they intend to install an access gate on that thoroughfare that would restrict access to Villages Residents only.

I believe that regardless of whether or not ownership of that thoroughfare is transferred, the Town of Lady Lake must deny any request to install any such gate that will restrict access to only Villages residents, for the following reasons:

1. Resolution 98-106 requested approval for construction of a golf cart thoroughfare, not a restricted access gated entryway.
2. The approved engineering plans do not show any such gates.
3. Paradise Drive on the eastern end of that thoroughfare is a public access road and the property on the western side is a public access parking lot.
4. The proposed gate would provide access to medical, retail, and restaurant facilities by Villages resident seniors while at the same time denying access by Stonecrest and eventually Spruce Creek South resident seniors to similar facilities in Lady Lake and beyond. And it should be noted that some of these seniors do not own automobiles and this has been their only way to access those facilities (including the Lady Lake US Post Office) for many years now.
5. The VCCDD is a Community Development District that is a public non-profit unit of local government. As such, any roads, throughways, or multi-modal cart paths under its jurisdiction must be accessible to the public.
6. The multi-modal paths (not golf course paths) used by carts for transportation throughout TV are an integral part of the public access roadways within TV and are not private recreational facilities as some have suggested. They were built to provide golf cart access where travel on the regular roads by carts is prohibited due to safety concerns. Their primary function is transportation, not recreation. Furthermore, they were built with tax free municipal bond funds. And although they are maintained with VCCDD amenity funds, that does not empower the VCCDD to declare them private any more than a city or town with a local tax can declare some of their streets for resident use only.
7. Access through this cart thoroughfare by non TV residents does not in any way compromise the exclusivity of the numerous private recreational facilities in TV any more than access by automobile does.
8. This golf cart thoroughfare has been available as approved in an unrestricted manner for the better part of fifteen years now. If the intent was to create a TV resident only golf cart access to and from Paradise Drive, it should have been clearly stated as such in the 1998 resolution. But it wasn’t.

If the proposed change requires installation of a gate for security or safety reasons, it must not require an access card and any such addition should require submission and approval by the Town of Lady Lake.

Respectfully,

EdV
Stonecrest Resident, Summerfield Florida

Your point #6 is WRONG. The multi-modal trails are private property. Say what you want - it is a Constitutional right of yours - but the multi-modal trails are private property. END OF DISCUSSION.

And some people just can't handle the truth!

Interesting thought, but what's in question are cart lanes on public roads, and their access.

What is the difference between the paths. There are paths that run behind the houses and interconnect with Golf Cart Trails and there are paths that run parallel with the roads. Please define the official definition of each.

Ed - please provide us with the Moyer-Tutt letter. I do plan on attending tomorrow night and will use your post. This is not a case of us (TV) versus them (Stonecrest) which, unfortunately, it seems to have degenerated to. It is a case of a wall going up without a permit and in violation of a 1998 resolution. And yes, I live in TV and have for almost ten years.

Click on this link for a great interactive view of the multi-modal paths throughout the villages. They're not golf cart paths but the paths used for transportation throughout the entire area.

Carting The Villages -Home

EdV, why did you change your opinion about the path being blocked?

Your response from a previous thread about the closure: "But regarding access by Stonecrest residents, let me give you my thoughts. Stonecrest has around 2000 homes, but unlike TV where there are roughly 40,000 golf carts, Stonecrest has at most 500 carts. And of those, not many of them would be using that dusty cart path and the narrow golf cart bridge to Spanish Springs very often. The importance of Stonecrest in the golf cart path into TV has been grossly exaggerated.

"Clearly there is something else afoot and time will tell as we sort it out. But I haven’t seen this much excitement on TOTV in quite a while.

"Buckle Up as Bettie Davis once said."

I never have changed my opinion. It's wrong.

You know what I meant. I am not being confrontational with you. I was hoping to gain insight into your thinking and I was hoping your answer would be informational to me.

EDIT: And for the record, I meant your opinion about the impact to Stonecrest residents.

Here you are.

Moyer-Tutt letter.


I wish I could be there but I on top of a mountain with a busted kneecap.

Honestly BK I'm not sure what you meant. But it is getting late and my neighbors up here insisted that I join them for a happy hour gathering so please understand, I'm a bit fuzzy at this point.

Well, have fun. Be safe. Don't get eaten by a bear. Heal quickly. I love those beautiful Smoky Mountains.

EdV, have you gotten a legal and professional opinion from a local lawyer on this issue, or are your posts your own personal opinion? I am just curious as to where you got your facts which seem like they are somewhat legal sounding.

EdV, why don't you explain to The Villages residents how a determination in favor of Stonecresters using The Villages private golf cart paths by the powers that be, sets a new precedent for accessing The Villages.

If this access that Stonecrest is insisting upon is allowed in The Villages, more lawsuits would most likely ensue from abutting properties claiming entitlement to public access to anywhere in The Villages on Village private cart paths.

Villagers, that sucking sound you would be hearing is lost value of your property. Public access to your private cart paths through our neighborhoods by surrounding communities such as Stonecrest, Wildwood, Spruce Creek, perhaps Fruitland Park would devastate The Villages as our community was never meant to handle the volume of traffic from neighboring golf carts.

I stated earlier that you can't un-ring a bell and EdV, I think you're very aware that a ruling in your favor could not be upheld for Stonecresters only.

Here's my opinion for what its worth and a whole bunch of years in engineering that I'm trying to forget. Those paths were designed for safe transportation by Golf Cart and are an integral part of the existing road way system. If Tax free Bond money was used to build them they fall into the same category as the road way. You can scream all you want about private property but I believe you'll loose the argument. If I was in the Villages I'd be pushing for some sort of Trail Sticker that you can purchase to aid in the maintenance fees for these paths. I also believe the Villages would have the authority to put that into effect. Just like Fruitland Park has a similar system. If they were private property you could use gates along the path to limit access into the individual neighborhoods which don't exist.

Again, I will say with all this talk about outside access your eyes are being taken off the original problem. I have a real good idea what this is about. Remember after the resolution surfaced 98-106 the wall came down pronto. But Murray Construction tried to get a permit for demoing the site and building a house. That's because the powers in charge who ever they are knows that Lady Lake will most likely not a allow restricted access gate, if a gate at all. They want this gate closed. Look at the whole picture and follow the money. Work together on this or you all will loose the fight.

I'm pretty much done with this as I believe this horse has been beat to death. Send me a direct message if you wish to discuss this with me but I'm done after this post.

My concern is at the Wal-Mart end and keeping that open because I like going to all the stores on the North East side of the gate. As for going into the villages I think going over that bridge is an accident waiting to happen. I'll drive my car its safer.

Good luck to all.

Villagers Access?
 

Can a Villager with a golf cart access Stonecrest or Spruce Creek without being a resident of either community?

Yes, if you go through the front gate and get a gate pass. Access to the Restaurant and Golf are open to the public. No one will stop you if you cruse the neighborhood.

So far, none of you have addressed specifically the numbered items I have listed, other than rhetorical pot shots.

If you'd like to debate the issues, that's fine but let's do so intelligently shall we?

How do you get a gate pass?

I politely asked you if you have gotten a professional legal opinion from a local attorney, or are your posts solely your own opinion...There was no rhetoric or "pot shot" involved. Again, are your opinions and statements based on a lawyers professional opinion, and if so, please name him or her.

Just show up in your car or golf cart and say you're going to the golf course or the golf course restaurant. That's all. Our by-laws mandate that.

I'm so very tired of this too, Steve.

But EdV is fanning the flames to keep a public gate into and through a private Village neighborhood. It's EdV's perogative as Stonecrester to fight for a ruling that would enhance his community and others but I really don't think The Villages residents are fully aware of the ramifications of a ruling in favor of removing the gate from that area.

They are my opinions based on many years as a resident in this tri-county community. If you see things differently why not address each one with your own view of it?

I'm willing to discuss it. Are you?

Yup. A few folks have brought up that concern throughout the various threads, but they've been ignored. Hopefully this post will get the attention of all Villagers, including those who don't have a problem with a "few Stonecrest" residents having golf cart access.

Drive to the Stonecrest front gate and just ask for a pass and tell them where you are going. The restaurant, golf course, and sales center all open to the public. There is also a garage sale once a year that the general public is allowed to come into and buy some one else's junk. The pass will have a date. With autos I believe they take the license number. I don't have the front gate number so you could call them. If you have friends that live in Stonecrest you can be put on their list and then you can come in anytime to visit otherwise they need to call the gate to give them your name so they will be expecting you. We've had a change in the security company so I'm not sure what else they may or may no be doing. I'm up here in Ohio for the summer and will be back in September. Hopefully to a a more peaceful area neighborhood. Life is just to short to get all upset about the little things.

EdV, which are the rhetorical pot shots and not addressing the issue at hand?

I truly believe that the WALL had nothing to do with Stonecrest & everything to do with the new Harbor Chase facility being built.

Since your opinions are stating "legalities" without the benefit of legal training or professional legal opinions, there is no reason to debate with you. The law and the lawyers will prevail and determine what will be done regardless of anyone's feelings or opinions of a non legal nature. That is typically what always happens. I think you need to be careful of quoting legalities without the knowledge or training to do so. But good luck to you as well as TV'ers tommorrow. I am sure a legal and just solution will be accomplished.

Villagers access?
 

So its a gate community and you have to get a PASS to access your community. "Access to the Restaurant and Golf are open to the public." So The Villages is a gated communtiy and your need a Village residents pass to access through the gate. The problem sounds to me that the residents of Stonecrest/Spruce Creek have more to lose than The Villagers. You have access across 441/27 at a certain location that we don't have. We have the golf cart bridge over 441/27 build by the developer. Sound to me like Stonecrest/Spruce Creek want a free ride without paying the bonds/amenity fees. Correct me if I'm wrong!

newcomer - anyone can pass thru a gate in the villages by pressing the red button on the visitors side of the gate. the villages is not a gated/protected community in the true sense of the word and as stonecrest and spruce creek south are.

the golf cart crossing at spruce creek south has been authorized but not yet approved as it has not yet finalized sufficient revision to meet the requirements of florida dot. so residents do not have access yet.

In #4 of your letter, you mention the lady Lake Post office. Are you referring to the little post office behind the Circle K? My understanding is that was set up so that the residents of OBG, Country Club Hills, and Silver lake would have a place to pick up their mail. Do Stonecrest residents have PO boxes there as well? Don't they have their own PO boxes in Stonecrest or is mail delivered to them at their homes?
ARe you talking about the Lady Lake Post Office on Route 25? That is not accessible to golf carts by anyone.

Where can we see a copy of Resolution 98-106?

I have a copy tell me how to upload it?

Resolution 98-106
 

I hope this worked????

It worked perfectly. Thank you.

Your welcome and good luck tomorrow.

What does it mean BK? I can't read all of it. Does it mean that the gate must remain open or that the other areas are thoroughfares through people's property?

Or something else entirely? Who found it?

didja click on the image to enlarge?

this was orig published in the ************** - was research they did

Lady Lake Commissioner. It means the property is to be used for Golf Cart access. I'm not sure which Lady lake Commissioner. Now you know as much as I do.