[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Shane Lowry's ball movement was very much less egregious than Windham Clarke addressing his ball, and tamping down the grass next to the ball with his club.

After controversy, Wyndham Clark calls for simpler rules

.

Wyndham Clark is well known as a POS.

5 days ago, Oakmont banned him from the golf course, based on his destruction in their locker room, during the US Open. Wyndham still hadn't apologized to the club, nor offered to pay for the damage.

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Curiously, Kevin Kisner mentioned the situation during BO coverage this weekend and is getting pummeled for his stupid comment.

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[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Wyndham Clark is well known as a POS.

5 days ago, Oakmont banned him from the golf course, based on his destruction in their locker room, during the US Open. Wyndham still hadn't apologized to the club, nor offered to pay for the damage.

Your browser is not supported | usatoday.com

Curiously, Kevin Kisner mentioned the situation during BO coverage this weekend and is getting pummeled for his stupid comment.

Access Denied

I do however agree with the previous post. It seems more and more common for players to bring 2 clubs over to their ball and then place (or press one down) behind the ball, and then the other, sometimes 2 or 3 times. I can only imagine that it improves their swing path, if only slightly. Maybe not as much as Reed in that waste area at the Hero, but to some degree. (Unless they are using that new memory turf grass )

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I do however agree with the previous post. It seems more and more common for players to bring 2 clubs over to their ball and then place (or press one down) behind the ball, and then the other, sometimes 2 or 3 times. I can only imagine that it improves their swing path, if only slightly. Maybe not as much as Reed in that waste area at the Hero, but to some degree. (Unless they are using that new memory turf grass )

Gary Player was the KING of improved lies, throughout his career. He was would set up behind a ball in the rough with a fairway wood ... tamp it down a bit, then switch to an iron. If you recall, Tom Watson called Player out at one of the old Skins Games, for cheating. There's also the story (& likely true) of how he won the 1974 US Open. Golf: The paradox that is Gary Player | The Independent | The Independent

Reed has always been cheat, going back to his days at Georgia, when he was thrown off the Golf Team.

I spend a few minutes with Reed and he's great with golf fans, at least in my experience ... but he is a cheater.

[Rainger99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Shane Lowry's ball movement was very much less egregious than Windham Clarke addressing his ball, and tamping down the grass next to the ball with his club.

After controversy, Wyndham Clark calls for simpler rules

Should have Clarke been assessed a penalty for improving his swing path? or does improving one's lie only include moving the ball or remarking a ball in any other location than the original? One cannot improve swing paths with branches or other natural impediments, except tamping down grasses??

These are the inconsistencies in the human judging which are blamed on the rules, and yet, it's the appearance of inconsistent application of rules by humans which is the cause of the confusion/blame?

definitely a first world problem for us, nonetheless. .

The infraction??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJjYZqGswA

[justjim]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

At the end of every round, I assess myself a two stroke penalty just in case I missed something.

I get it. Great satire!

[Badger 2006]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The rule is the rule. Personally, I agree with the ruling. The video is very clear that the player caused the ball to move. It's a game with rules.

Not if all of the field does not have cameras watching their every move. You can’t “protect the field” if camera scrutiny is selective.

[Badger 2006]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

The answer is to get rid of marquee groups. The pairings should be selected randomly. That is how you treat all players equally.

But the player caused the ball to move. What difference does it make how it was reported?

The players and officials should be the only ones to call infractions. The camera coverage is selective and in golf terms does not “protect the field”, which it must.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Badger 2006

The players and officials should be the only ones to call infractions. The camera coverage is selective and in golf terms does not “protect the field”, which it must.

Please clarify.

The officials did call the infraction. But, without a video, the officials would never see an infraction.

When you say players should call an infraction, are you just referring to the player who hits the shot, other players in the group, or players who are not in the group?

Are you saying that, if the camera clearly shows an infraction, it should be completely ignored? I don't think that approach would go over well with the spectators and television viewers.

[Old Traveller]

In match play, hitting your opponent's ball results in a loss of hole penalty. Player A loses the hole.

In medal or stroke play, Player A takes a two stroke penalty for hitting the wrong ball. Player A then takes another penalty for hitting his first ball in the water. If they deem Player A's ball as lost than stroke and distance in addition to the 2 stroke penalty. Player B then drops his ball as close as possible to where Player A had hit the wrong ball.

[Old Traveller]

I was under the impression that a camera view was no longer admissible evidence. I also thought that either the player, his caddy, opponent, opponent's caddy or an on the course rules official had to witness the infraction, otherwise no penalty. Maybe the R & A has a different rule.

[JGVillages]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Please clarify.

The officials did call the infraction. But, without a video, the officials would never see an infraction.

When you say players should call an infraction, are you just referring to the player who hits the shot, other players in the group, or players who are not in the group?

Are you saying that, if the camera clearly shows an infraction, it should be completely ignored? I don't think that approach would go over well with the spectators and television viewers.

So you’re wanting to “unoprotect the field to keep spectators happy. In the NFL if every “non call” that was caught on camera had to be reviewed to satisfy the spectators you’d play the first half one day and the second half the next day.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Old Traveller

I was under the impression that a camera view was no longer admissible evidence. I also thought that either the player, his caddy, opponent, opponent's caddy or an on the course rules official had to witness the infraction, otherwise no penalty. Maybe the R & A has a different rule.

See rule attached

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by JGVillages

So you’re wanting to “unoprotect the field to keep spectators happy. In the NFL if every “non call” that was caught on camera had to be reviewed to satisfy the spectators you’d play the first half one day and the second half the next day.

Apple and oranges. In golf, players are responsible for enforcing the rules and assessing a penalty on themselves. In football, the players are not responsible for enforcing any rules. The officials are charged with watching the game and enforcing the rules.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Old Traveller

I was under the impression that a camera view was no longer admissible evidence. I also thought that either the player, his caddy, opponent, opponent's caddy or an on the course rules official had to witness the infraction, otherwise no penalty. Maybe the R & A has a different rule.

Then why was there a penalty? Apparently, the video is the only evidence.

[Old Traveller]

Shane Lowry agreed to assess himself the penalty so as not to ever be called a cheat. I'll bet in his heart he knows he didn't do anything wrong.