[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Where in the rule book does it mention clothes you cannot wear???? Its the elitest mentally at stuffy golf clubs. They dont want golfers looking like working class smucks.

I'm with you.

This is the 21st Century. Having a dress code for a non-private country club, is ridiculous and elitist ... without justification.

[Rich Iwaszko]

If he had a 4 and signed for a 5, he would not be disqualified, he would have to take the 5. If he had a 4 and signed for a three, he would have been disqualified. They will give you more but not less, bigger penalty.

Originally Posted by Singerlady

As a former scorer, this is what happens. Your playing partner is your official scorer and vice-versa. At the bottom of each score card is a perforated strip for me(your official scorer) to score FOR you, and on your card, you (my official scorer) to score FOR me. The scorer is a check for the scores. She/he is not the official scorer.
Once the round is done and all are in the scorers tent/building, the players exchange the perforated strips with their scores on it and compare their official score (from their playing partner) to the score that they wrote on their card. They then ask the scorer to read the scores he/she recorded. That’s how it’s done.
The only way I think Spieth could’ve been DQ’d is if he signed the card before the scorer read his scores. Not smart.
I actually had a situation at the Western Open on Chicago where I caught the player in a wrong score. I said he had a 4, he had written down a 5. I reconstructed the hole for him (where his ball was on the hole) and his partner said “she’s right”. Saved him from being DQ’d.

[Rich Iwaszko]

It is the 21st Century and private clubs are private for who they can keep out. Its not America today. If you can afford it you should be able to get in. The days of black balling should be over. Augusta has been the face of prejudice from day 1. We need those days to be over......I remember when Hyannisport Golf Club wouldn't let Bill Russell join because he was too tall........................

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I'm with you.

This is the 21st Century. Having a dress code for a non-private country club, is ridiculous and elitist ... without justification.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

It is the 21st Century and private clubs are private for who they can keep out. Its not America today. If you can afford it you should be able to get in. The days of black balling should be over. Augusta has been the face of prejudice from day 1. We need those days to be over......I remember when Hyannisport Golf Club wouldn't let Bill Russell join because he was too tall........................

There's actually more to it, than you may think.

Private Clubs enjoy certain tax benefits and more importantly they retain a level of protection from ADA compliance and some other accessibility regulations.

In order to maintain those benefits as a "private club", the membership has to be "selective" per IRS Regulations. If you are not selective and allow anyone with enough money to join, you will lose your protection as a private club.

Obviously, you're not entitled to discriminate on the basis someone's "height", unless your club is limited to "short people" and you can't use selective criteria that is discriminatory on its face, against a protected class.

The fact that you mentioned Hyannisport CC and Bill Russel, leads me to believe you might be from Massachusetts?

The link below is to the seminal case on the protections offered to and requirements to be a "private club". You may remember Bob Lobel, a Boston Sportscaster (& 1st class jerk). he sued Woodland Golf Club. In relevant part, the decision says:

For the reasons stated below, the undisputed evidence shows that Woodland has all the basic characteristics of a private club, including genuine selectivity of membership and exclusion of non-members from regular or indiscriminate use of its facilities. It is therefore not subject to the requirements of the ADA, and Lobel's motion for summary judgment will be denied and Woodland's motion for summary judgment will be granted.

Lobel v. Woodland Golf Club of Auburndale, 260 F. Supp. 3d 127 | Casetext Search + Citator

If you're really interested in the subject:

Private Clubs Under the Americans With Disabilities Act | ADA National Network

When Is a Private Club Not a 'Private Club'? | ACLU Pennsylvania

https://nr1st.org/ada-requirements-f...ate-businesses

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Rich Iwaszko

Where in the rule book does it mention clothes you cannot wear???? Its the elitest mentally at stuffy golf clubs. They dont want golfers looking like working class smucks.

Unless you play for LIV where you wear shorts and have a shotgun start, just like a church fundraiser!

[Rich Iwaszko]

thanks for the info...........why they get any tax benefit is the bigger question...........

Originally Posted by BrianL99

There's actually more to it, than you may think.

Private Clubs enjoy certain tax benefits and more importantly they retain a level of protection from ADA compliance and some other accessibility regulations.

In order to maintain those benefits as a "private club", the membership has to be "selective" per IRS Regulations. If you are not selective and allow anyone with enough money to join, you will lose your protection as a private club.

Obviously, you're not entitled to discriminate on the basis someone's "height", unless your club is limited to "short people" and you can't use selective criteria that is discriminatory on its face, against a protected class.

The fact that you mentioned Hyannisport CC and Bill Russel, leads me to believe you might be from Massachusetts?

The link below is to the seminal case on the protections offered to and requirements to be a "private club". You may remember Bob Lobel, a Boston Sportscaster (& 1st class jerk). he sued Woodland Golf Club. In relevant part, the decision says:

For the reasons stated below, the undisputed evidence shows that Woodland has all the basic characteristics of a private club, including genuine selectivity of membership and exclusion of non-members from regular or indiscriminate use of its facilities. It is therefore not subject to the requirements of the ADA, and Lobel's motion for summary judgment will be denied and Woodland's motion for summary judgment will be granted.

Lobel v. Woodland Golf Club of Auburndale, 260 F. Supp. 3d 127 | Casetext Search + Citator

If you're really interested in the subject:

Private Clubs Under the Americans With Disabilities Act | ADA National Network

When Is a Private Club Not a 'Private Club'? | ACLU Pennsylvania

https://nr1st.org/ada-requirements-f...ate-businesses

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Singerlady

As a former scorer, this is what happens. Your playing partner is your official scorer and vice-versa. At the bottom of each score card is a perforated strip for me(your official scorer) to score FOR you, and on your card, you (my official scorer) to score FOR me. The scorer is a check for the scores. She/he is not the official scorer.
Once the round is done and all are in the scorers tent/building, the players exchange the perforated strips with their scores on it and compare their official score (from their playing partner) to the score that they wrote on their card. They then ask the scorer to read the scores he/she recorded. That’s how it’s done.
The only way I think Spieth could’ve been DQ’d is if he signed the card before the scorer read his scores. Not smart.
I actually had a situation at the Western Open on Chicago where I caught the player in a wrong score. I said he had a 4, he had written down a 5. I reconstructed the hole for him (where his ball was on the hole) and his partner said “she’s right”. Saved him from being DQ’d.

That's the current process, I am not questioning the current process steps, but the need for that process to continue when you, the scorer, are sitting there with the official answers.

just more paperwork, which is what a player doesn't need to worry about after the day of golf. . . You think that the players sign for their card at the Ryder Cup?

The process should be that the player confirms the official score kept by the scorer, and has the opportunity to challenge / disagree with the official scorer (throws a red flag)

The situation with which I disagree, is when someone on the rules committee tells a golfer that hitting out of the bunker in a flying pile of sand, that he double hit the ball. The player, maybe named John Cook, says "I didn't feel any second hit, but if you say so!", then the player is not keeping his own scorecard, the scorer is, and you can't disagree with him. Again, you are just signing the card to confirm that the official score keeper is correct, nothing more. .

[Marine1974]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

Why in today's world, with every group having a scorer, the camera men watching every hole, with web sites posting the scores, do the golfers themselves have to sign a card for their score?

So evidently they had the correct score from the scorer, so that they can compare the players' signed card against the scorers tally. . . and disqualify him. Otherwise, how would they know so quickly?

Seems like the old fashioned pre television, pre media blitz everywhere, rule that the traditionalists don't want to change, is really out of date. The rule about signing for yours and your opponents card is left over from the very old days when golfers went out alone, and the sport had to impose such rules to prevent dishonesty amongst the players.

That scenario doesn't exist in today's world, so maybe the rules of PGA tournaments need to be updated to the scorer keeping the score, so the players can focus on playing and not paperwork!

paperwork sucks

It’s more about keeping your own score so you know how to play your next shot . Without the player knowing his or her score , the player should not rely is allowed a camera man from tv , spectators etc . It’s about keeping your own score to determine your course management.

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by Marine1974

It’s more about keeping your own score so you know how to play your next shot . Without the player knowing his or her score , the player should not rely is allowed a camera man from tv , spectators etc . It’s about keeping your own score to determine your course management.

LOL! uh, no . . its for the purse, and fedex points. .

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

That's the current process, I am not questioning the current process steps, but the need for that process to continue when you, the scorer, are sitting there with the official answers.

just more paperwork, which is what a player doesn't need to worry about after the day of golf. . . You think that the players sign for their card at the Ryder Cup?

The process should be that the player confirms the official score kept by the scorer, and has the opportunity to challenge / disagree with the official scorer (throws a red flag)

The situation with which I disagree, is when someone on the rules committee tells a golfer that hitting out of the bunker in a flying pile of sand, that he double hit the ball. The player, maybe named John Cook, says "I didn't feel any second hit, but if you say so!", then the player is not keeping his own scorecard, the scorer is, and you can't disagree with him. Again, you are just signing the card to confirm that the official score keeper is correct, nothing more. .

A wrong scorecard on the PGA tour is pretty rare. You are given a scorecard for a fellow-competitor which also has a line for your own score. There is also an official scorer as well. At the end of the round you compare the score that you kept with the person who kept your score, and vice versa, then sign it and turn it in. There is also a comparison with the official scorer. This is exactly the same process we use on the Golf Channel AM Tour, and a problem is rare. I suspect that the pros have gone through this so many time that they occasionally get complacent and make a mistake. And even at that, if they hung around the scoring area until their score was officially posted, it could still be corrected.

BTW, as of January 2019, there is no longer a penalty for a "double hit"

[Rich Iwaszko]

Last time I checked, the Ryder Cup is match play....................in Match Play there is no requirement to even keep a scorecard.......

The walking scorer types in the scores for each hole for all playersr selectronically...........those scores are transmitted to the scoring tent computers automatically

A player keeps his score on the top of his scorecard and his opponents on the scorecard

Once done, they rip off their top portion of the scorecard and compare it to the card kept by the opponent

The scoring tent checks the card against the electronic and will mention any discrepancies, once sorted the player signs his scorecard, hard to do wrong here.

Then the player signs 2 golfballs and presents one to the electronic scorer and the other to another volunteer

It is really tough to sign a wrong scorecard unless you are ****ed off enough to blow it off. Nice to know it cost him at least 20,000$ which is close to last place money so it could have been more.

There is always a double check system in accounting and here even a triple check with the electronic scorers.........again, really, really hard to sign for a wrong score in these circumstances

The caddy lost money, he may not let Jordan do that again.............golf can get emotional to the point of negligence and stupidity

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

That's the current process, I am not questioning the current process steps, but the need for that process to continue when you, the scorer, are sitting there with the official answers.

just more paperwork, which is what a player doesn't need to worry about after the day of golf. . . You think that the players sign for their card at the Ryder Cup?

The process should be that the player confirms the official score kept by the scorer, and has the opportunity to challenge / disagree with the official scorer (throws a red flag)

The situation with which I disagree, is when someone on the rules committee tells a golfer that hitting out of the bunker in a flying pile of sand, that he double hit the ball. The player, maybe named John Cook, says "I didn't feel any second hit, but if you say so!", then the player is not keeping his own scorecard, the scorer is, and you can't disagree with him. Again, you are just signing the card to confirm that the official score keeper is correct, nothing more. .

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

BTW, as of January 2019, there is no longer a penalty for a "double hit"

That's why on the green I keep tapping the ball, keeping it in motion, until it drops in the cup. I have so many one putts now.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Golf is a game of tradition and honor............glad these items continue.

Tradition? Where is me kilt and me sporin?

Honor? Score card? You take my word or be run through. Trial by combat!

Seriously, jeans on a winter day and a sweat shirt for warmth? No!
But a clown costume, big shoes and all is OK if it has a collar.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by CoachKandSportsguy

You think that the players sign for their card at the Ryder Cup?

.

Different game. Match Play and Medal Play have different rules and there is no "scorecard" in Match Play.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/ho...atch-play.html

[CoachKandSportsguy]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Different game. Match Play and Medal Play have different rules and there is no "scorecard" in Match Play.

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/ho...atch-play.html

I know, which was also my point . . . there is no scorecard, but there is an official scorer to track it. .