[frayedends]

Originally Posted by The Chipster

BEST post in this thread. It was full of accurate, valuable links and information. Thank you. Unfortunately, due to massive cognitive dissonance, most readers will not believe anything except their narrow views about the "healthy" wonders of red meat. Darwin's Law?

So I should ignore the fact that the keto/carnivore diet cured all my health issues because there are links to other studies?

This statement right here is the problem... "There is a site, pubmed.gov, which posts most of the medical literature and studies from established and credentialed organizations. Any medical or diet recommendations should should be accompanied with multiple citations from this site or other renowned medical organizations."

These "renowned medical organizations" are the same orgs that taught my last doctor to tell me, "You're over 50, nothing you can do. Just take the pills and you'll be fine."

These organizations are the ones in bed with the pharma companies. FWIW I don't think all plants are killing people. I think some plants may be killing some people. Starting a carnivore diet is a good way to figure out which plants you may be sensitive to.

[ithos]

[QUOTE=frayedends;2277438]So I should ignore the fact that the keto/carnivore diet cured all my health issues because there are links to other studies?

You can believe whatever you want but when some on this thread start proclaiming the the carnivore is a healthy diet that cures many ill and that plants are dangerous without citing credible peer reviewed literature then you shouldn't be surprised when others respond with science and fact based evidence.

Were you truly cured or did the symptoms go away. Are there long term negative consequences that you don't know about? We have no idea unless you are willing to provide your entire medical record which probably isn't appropriate on this site.

I could provide anecdotal evidence that I had significant improvement by going plant based but it would be almost worthless because it is just one data point. That is why I reference articles from established and credible medical organizations that substantiate their findings with established medical protocols and years of data.

Pubmed.gov. If you can find information that backs up your beliefs then I would be most interested in reading it.

[frayedends]

[QUOTE=ithos;2277454]

Originally Posted by frayedends

So I should ignore the fact that the keto/carnivore diet cured all my health issues because there are links to other studies?

You can believe whatever you want but when some on this thread start proclaiming the the carnivore is a healthy diet that cures many ill and that plants are dangerous without citing credible peer reviewed literature then you shouldn't be surprised when others respond with science and fact based evidence.

Were you truly cured or did the symptoms go away. Are there long term negative consequences that you don't know about? We have no idea unless you are willing to provide your entire medical record which probably isn't appropriate on this site.

I could provide anecdotal evidence that I had significant improvement by going plant based but it would be almost worthless because it is just one data point. That is why I reference articles from established and credible medical organizations that substantiate their findings with established medical protocols and years of data.

Pubmed.gov. If you can find information that backs up your beliefs then I would be most interested in reading it.

I think there is a lot we agree on. As far as a vegetarian diet, I don't think it's sustainable and I don't think it's healthy. Just about every vegetarian I've met looks sickly thin and seems to have very low muscle mass. That is, of course, excluding the "vegetarians" that are obese because they eat tons of processed carbs.

But this is just my opinion. As far as research, I won't be trusting anything "Dot Gov". They are the people telling us to eat mostly pasta and bread.

I guess I wouldn't share my personal medical history here, but my A1C went from 5.7 (any higher is diabetic) to 5.0 in an extremely short time. I lost 30 lbs quickly and my BP and cholesterol have been fine. We are on a couple years now. Again, though, I didn't do strict carnivore, just very low carb.

In any case, I've fallen victim to what I complain about and derailed a thread. The OP didn't ask us for advice on the diet. So I think we can agree to disagree on some points and move on to good meat recommendations.

[ithos]

Originally Posted by frayedends

Lol I prefer any study be done by someone other than the industry that gains from positive results. I wouldn’t trust a study done by the meat industry on the carnivore diet. There was a study by Harvard that confirmed the positive effects I mentioned.

The Harvard Carnivore Diet Study: Findings and Takeaway - Dr. Robert Kiltz

IT WAS A SURVEY! And then they made the disclaimer
"The generalizability of these findings and the long-term effects of this dietary pattern require further study."
Of course they are going to get positive feedback because in the short term there are benefits.

Study limitations
This study was based on self-reported responses to an online survey.
Recalling what exactly one eats in a week, month or year is notoriously difficult.
And there is no way to objectively verify the accuracy of self-reported eating habits and health outcomes.

As far as what Harvard officially recommends, it is more of a Mediterranean diet.

Protein power – ¼ of your plate.
Fish, poultry, beans, and nuts are all healthy, versatile protein sources—they can be mixed into salads, and pair well with vegetables on a plate. Limit red meat, and avoid processed meats such as bacon and sausage.
Healthy Eating Plate | The Nutrition Source | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

And they are also a key participants of long term study of nurses started in 1976
Nurses' Health Study |

CNN
—
A large new study by Harvard researchers suggests having just two servings of red meat per week increases risk for developing type 2 diabetes later in life, and the risk further increases with greater consumption, according to the study published Thursday in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

“The association between red meat and type 2 diabetes has been observed in different populations worldwide,” said the study’s first author Xiao Gu, a postdoctoral research fellow of nutrition at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, via email. “We keep strengthening existing evidence with improved data and techniques. I hope our study could settle the debate regarding whether we should limit red meat intake for health concerns or not.”

It is a great body of research because of longevity and the number of people surveyed. And they cover much more than diet.

[frayedends]

Never mind. No sense derailing the thread anymore.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by FredMitchell

Learn to cook sous vide. I favor the Sous Vide Supreme with ten years of trouble-free service. The "stick circulators" are cheaper, but have moving parts that can fail and they make some noise in use. Great steaks however you like them. The same for any meat, including cuts like chuck steak which requires a good 48-72 hour cook to be tender, yet still cooked rare to medium rare. The beauty of it is that you will always end up with your protein cooked to exactly what you wanted and it is not time sensitive, so you take out the meat and give it a 60-120 second sear when everything else in your meal is ready.

Google "sous vide" to learn more. If you go that route, it is hard to beat Jason Logsdon's "Modernist Cooking Sous Vide" for learning and guidance.

We use sous vide with a lot of success with steaks and pork. But we tried a roast only once because it was not at all tender, in fact it was leather. It has been a while, but if I remember correctly, I think it was a rump roast, about 3 pounds.

I am going to look up Jason Logsdon as you recommended, but meanwhile what is the secret to getting a tender roast with sous vide?

We think we did not leave it in long enough, but I want to know more before trying again because I don’t want to mess up a roast twice.

Boomer

[frayedends]

Originally Posted by Boomer

We use sous vide with a lot of success with steaks and pork. But we tried a roast only once because it was not at all tender, in fact it was leather. It has been a while, but if I remember correctly, I think it was a rump roast, about 3 pounds.

I am going to look up Jason Logsdon as you recommended, but meanwhile what is the secret to getting a tender roast with sous vide?

We think we did not leave it in long enough, but I want to know more before trying again because I don’t want to mess up a roast twice.

Boomer

What temp did you do the roast? A rump roast is typically used for pot roast and would be cooked till almost shreddable. Like over 200 degree internal. I wouldn’t sous vide that type of roast. You want a rib roast or some other tender roast. 3lb at 125 would take probably 3 hours minimum and then sear it in a very hot oven or in cast iron for medium rare.

If rump was tough it was almost certainly undercooked.