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-   Restaurant Discussions (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/restaurant-discussions-90/)
-   -   Credit card fee (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/restaurant-discussions-90/credit-card-fee-334925/)

OhioBuckeye 09-04-2022 08:48 AM
Nothing surprises me!

Stu from NYC 09-04-2022 08:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2132966)
The other related issue is the third party tip processors.

For example if you want to tip your hair dresser by credit card, the establishment runs your card through "tippy".....a third party processor. Tippy then charges 45 cents per transaction plus 2.5% of the total amount, against your card.

Hence the hair dresser does not pay the usual credit card transaction.....you do!!

Check the amount before you sign.
That would really get me annoyed and looking for new shop

oneclickplus 09-04-2022 08:56 AM
Also, most credit card companies contractually demand that merchants are not permitted to add an charge extra fee when accepting their card. This is largely ignored and difficult or impossible for a bank to enforce.

And, even if it is/was illegal to charge extra for accepting a credit card, all the merchant has to do is raise prices 3.75% and offer a "cash discount". Businesses have been doing that for many years to get around merchant contract restrictions. You've all seen cash / credit prices at gas stations, right?

I agree with those that only pay cash at restaurants. No restaurant has ever seen my credit card. Ditto at any business where the card leaves my possession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132727)
Interesting. The credit card fee seems to violate this Florida law.

Update: Although this Florida law is still current, a Federal court ruled that it is unconstitutional. So, it may be legal to charge the fee. Go figure.

Fla. Stat. §501.0117

(1) A seller or lessor in a sales or lease transaction may not impose a surcharge on the buyer or lessee for electing to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means, if the seller or lessor accepts payment by credit card. A surcharge is any additional amount imposed at the time of a sale or lease transaction by the seller or lessor that increases the charge to the buyer or lessee for the privilege of using a credit card to make payment. Charges imposed pursuant to approved state or federal tariffs are not considered to be a surcharge, and charges made under such tariffs are exempt from this section. A convenience fee imposed upon a student or family paying tuition, fees, or other student account charges by credit card to a William L. Boyd, IV, Florida resident access grant eligible institution, as defined in §1009.89, or to a private school, as defined in §1002.01, is not considered to be a surcharge and is exempt from this section if the amount of the convenience fee does not exceed the total cost charged by the credit card company to the institution. The term “credit card” includes those cards for which unpaid balances are payable on demand. This section does not apply to the offering of a discount for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use of a credit card, if the discount is offered to all prospective customers.

(2) A person who violates the provisions of subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in §775.082 or §775.083.

Bill14564 09-04-2022 09:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by billethkid (Post 2132966)
The other related issue is the third party tip processors.

For example if you want to tip your hair dresser by credit card, the establishment runs your card through "tippy".....a third party processor. Tippy then charges 45 cents per transaction plus 2.5% of the total amount, against your card.

Hence the hair dresser does not pay the usual credit card transaction.....you do!!

Check the amount before you sign.
I haven't seen this on any of my charges yet and I know it didn't happen with the CC processor we used back in Md. Could be a new thing.

davefin 09-04-2022 09:31 AM
Where is Arnold Parker's anyway? LOL

Michael G. 09-04-2022 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2132976)
I’m willing to bet most businesses, especially restaurants, have these credit card fees already built into their prices so now they are just charging us double.
Or reminding your divorced waitress with 4 kids that there will be no tip because your boss included her tip in credit card fees.

tophcfa 09-04-2022 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2132976)
I’m willing to bet most businesses, especially restaurants, have these credit card fees already built into their prices so now they are just charging us double.
That would effectively penalize people for paying cash.

Sandy and Ed 09-04-2022 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich42 (Post 2132976)
I’m willing to bet most businesses, especially restaurants, have these credit card fees already built into their prices so now they are just charging us double.
I agree. It’s got to be recorded somewhere within the cost of goods sold which is a driver of the sale price to the consumer

Bill14564 09-04-2022 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2133005)
That would effectively penalize people for paying cash.
Not really, you and I would walk out of there paying the same amount for the same meal. The restaurant would make more profit from your meal than from mine but you and I would have been treated the same.

Sandy and Ed 09-04-2022 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnytalk (Post 2132972)
Another thing most places has Raised there food prices, and now pay for credit card fee,
Tips will go back to 15% ,

These tactics by any businessis poor business
To a degree, I agree. I wouldn’t want to tip based on a fee I am paying for using a credit card any more than I would want to tip based on the tax on my meal. I tip based on level of service.

Haggar 09-04-2022 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132755)
The 3.75 percent fee would be about double what I paid when I owned a retail business. But, I don't know what the current bank fees are. It seems too high though. Their online menu doesn't seem to say anything about the fee. Also, I wonder if they are able to distinguish between a credit card and a debit card in all cases.
One of my clients is a 7 store vitamin & minerals retailer - part of a national franchise.

His fees are about 1.44% for the total of visa, mastercard, discover and debits and about 2.75% for Amex.

The smaller the transaction the larger the fee. National franchises have tremendous negotiating power.

Arnold Palmer is making money on these service fees!

fdpaq0580 09-04-2022 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy and Ed (Post 2133012)
I tip based on level of service.
Sounds good, but:
Customer 1 orders spaghetti marinara at $10.
Customer 2 orders spaghetti/lobster sauce at $35.
In both cases server takes order, delivers 1plate to each customer. Same level of service, yet customer 1 tip (@ 20%) $2 while customer 2 tip (@ 20%) is $7. Customer 2's tip for same service is 350% more.

greenrzilla 09-04-2022 10:33 AM
3.75%
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ral51Bjl (Post 2132701)
My golf ladies went to Arnold Parker’s yesterday for lunch. We knew it was pricey but the food and service are usually good. When given our checks we put our credit cards to pay the bill. When the server returned with the copy to sign, we noticed the bill was higher. I called the server over and she stated that it was a 3.75% service charge for using a credit card and this was on the bottom of checks. We don’t usually look at the bottom of the check unless it has the gratuity suggestions on it. Beware of this on your checks.
This is all over. I was in Ocala and the same thing happened to us, I'm paying by cash now when ever I go out.

tophcfa 09-04-2022 10:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2133009)
Not really, you and I would walk out of there paying the same amount for the same meal. The restaurant would make more profit from your meal than from mine but you and I would have been treated the same.
Not true, if the price is the same for cash or credit card, it’s cheaper using our rewards credit card that gives us 2% cash back. If the establishment adds a fee of over 2% for paying with a credit card, it’s cheaper for us to pay with cash. It’s not that paying a percent or two more would make any difference to us, I just like getting the best value for our hard earned money.

Stu from NYC 09-04-2022 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2133036)
Not true, if the price is the same for cash or credit card, it’s cheaper using our rewards credit card that gives us 2% cash back. If the establishment adds a fee of over 2% for paying with a credit card, it’s cheaper for us to pay with cash. It’s not that paying a percent or two more would make any difference to us, I just like getting the best value for our hard earned money.
Our Sams card pays us 3% back for using the card but do agree like to get the best value for our money.

fdpaq0580 09-04-2022 11:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2133036)
Not true, if the price is the same for cash or credit card, it’s cheaper using our rewards credit card that gives us 2% cash back. If the establishment adds a fee of over 2% for paying with a credit card, it’s cheaper for us to pay with cash. It’s not that paying a percent or two more would make any difference to us, I just like getting the best value for our hard earned money.
It isn't necessarily the 2 or 3%, it is the principle.

Skip 09-04-2022 11:32 AM
We've been watching this for over a year now. First it was 2.4% added to the net total in a few restaurants. It appeared at the bottom of the bill, no signs and no notices on the menu. A complete surprise! I complained to the manager and got: "Everyone is doing this now!" My reply was: "OK, I won't come back then."

Then I noticed the fee was 3%. In a few months it was 3.5%. One place added it for "any plastic payment" (CC or DC). Then suddenly it was 4% added for CC surcharge last month. We just went to a restaurant for the first time last night and the charge was 4.3% of the net. This is getting out of hand. No prior notice either.

So I now write on the merchant's copy of the charge slip: "Owner: This 4% CC surprise fee is an underhanded tactic and not customer friendly. You just lost my frequent business!"

If everyone did this, the practice would soon stop. Even the servers that we talk to, hate the practice, it eventually affects their tips.

If we have a "law" in Florida, it should be enforced.

Suggest we all let the merchants know that their low 1-2% fee to the CC companies should not be passed on as a 4.3% rip off to the unsuspecting consumer.

Skip

Stu from NYC 09-04-2022 12:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip (Post 2133061)
We've been watching this for over a year now. First it was 2.4% added to the net total in a few restaurants. It appeared at the bottom of the bill, no signs and no notices on the menu. A complete surprise! I complained to the manager and got: "Everyone is doing this now!" My reply was: "OK, I won't come back then."

Then I noticed the fee was 3%. In a few months it was 3.5%. One place added it for "any plastic payment" (CC or DC). Then suddenly it was 4% added for CC surcharge last month. We just went to a restaurant for the first time last night and the charge was 4.3% of the net. This is getting out of hand. No prior notice either.

So I now write on the merchant's copy of the charge slip: "Owner: This 4% CC surprise fee is an underhanded tactic and not customer friendly. You just lost my frequent business!"

If everyone did this, the practice would soon stop. Even the servers that we talk to, hate the practice, it eventually affects their tips.

If we have a "law" in Florida, it should be enforced.

Suggest we all let the merchants know that their low 1-2% fee to the CC companies should not be passed on as a 4.3% rip off to the unsuspecting consumer.

Skip
So now this is a way to increase profits at our expense. Great idea to pass the comment onto the owner

amassary 09-04-2022 12:21 PM
Just FYI, I own a retail store and the fees vary based on the card. All those rewards, the retailer pays them. So a bank card with no rewards may be 1% but a cash back rewards card may be as much as 3.5%. Even debit cards have a fee for the retailer.

jparsoneau@aol.com 09-04-2022 01:04 PM
I always try to pick cash. Never give anybody my credit card especially when they take it away from me. But 3.75% convenience fee or not seems awfully expensive used to be one and a half to 1.75% I believe although AMEX Is usually more expensive with their fees to the merchant and passed on to customers

JoMar 09-04-2022 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by amassary (Post 2133084)
Just FYI, I own a retail store and the fees vary based on the card. All those rewards, the retailer pays them. So a bank card with no rewards may be 1% but a cash back rewards card may be as much as 3.5%. Even debit cards have a fee for the retailer.
Why complicate this thread with facts.......as you can tell by the posts those that know nothing believe their "opinion" is correct and the servers and owners should pay, or the guy down the street should pay, just not them :)

Luggage 09-04-2022 01:21 PM
It also goes against most credit card company policies by the Banks

Ginnybugs 09-04-2022 01:29 PM
Credit Card Charge
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by coralway (Post 2132784)
AMEX charges them a fee, don't know about Visa or MC.
When I had a merchant account, I accepted Visa and MasterCard, and both charged a fee. I did not accept Discover because their merchant fee was much, much higher than Visa and MasterCard.

The Mountaineer 09-04-2022 01:46 PM
Common practice
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ral51Bjl (Post 2132701)
My golf ladies went to Arnold Parker’s yesterday for lunch. We knew it was pricey but the food and service are usually good. When given our checks we put our credit cards to pay the bill. When the server returned with the copy to sign, we noticed the bill was higher. I called the server over and she stated that it was a 3.75% service charge for using a credit card and this was on the bottom of checks. We don’t usually look at the bottom of the check unless it has the gratuity suggestions on it. Beware of this on your checks.
Common practice for businesses all over America. Credit card company tacks on the 3.+% fee to transactions. Rather than absorb it, businesses tack on the transaction fee. Other businesses don't but simply charge you that much more for your food so that YOU and not them pay for YOUR credit card fee!

retiredguy123 09-04-2022 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoMar (Post 2133102)
Why complicate this thread with facts.......as you can tell by the posts those that know nothing believe their "opinion" is correct and the servers and owners should pay, or the guy down the street should pay, just not them :)
Should they also add a surcharge for the rent, the electric bill, washing the dishes, etc.?

I think it is good policy to not charge a credit card fee because it reduces crime by not requiring people to carry cash with them, and not requiring the employees to handle a lot of cash.

retiredguy123 09-04-2022 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mountaineer (Post 2133115)
Common practice for businesses all over America. Credit card company tacks on the 3.+% fee to transactions. Rather than absorb it, businesses tack on the transaction fee. Other businesses don't but simply charge you that much more for your food so that YOU and not them pay for YOUR credit card fee!
Common practice? I use a credit card for almost everything I buy, and I can't remember ever paying an extra fee.

golfing eagles 09-04-2022 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Mountaineer (Post 2133115)
Common practice for businesses all over America. Credit card company tacks on the 3.+% fee to transactions. Rather than absorb it, businesses tack on the transaction fee. Other businesses don't but simply charge you that much more for your food so that YOU and not them pay for YOUR credit card fee!
It's not "your" credit card fee. It's the fee the credit card charges the merchant. The merchant can absorb it, pass it on, or build it into their price structure---all have their pros and cons. YOU can choose to use cash, or YOU can choose merchants who don't blatantly pass it on (but you won't know if it was already built into their price structure. Most fees are under 3%, some are higher. There are also laws governing these transactions as well as agreements between the merchant and the bank. Most of these appear to be poorly enforced, at best. Also, I'm not so sure how "common" it is---prior to the pandemic I rarely saw the fee added except at gas stations.

Bill14564 09-04-2022 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tophcfa (Post 2133036)
Not true, if the price is the same for cash or credit card, it’s cheaper using our rewards credit card that gives us 2% cash back. If the establishment adds a fee of over 2% for paying with a credit card, it’s cheaper for us to pay with cash. It’s not that paying a percent or two more would make any difference to us, I just like getting the best value for our hard earned money.
If we eat the same meal then we should both pay the same price. Anything else is a penalty on the one who is made to pay more. The cost of accepting credit cards is a cost of doing business and should be factored into their advertised price.

Now, if they want to give me a discount for being 65+ years old, great! If they want to give me a discount for having a AAA card great! If they want to give me a discount for paying in cash, great! But all these are presented as discounts off the advertised price, not surcharges added onto the bill.

I like my points cards too but any benefit I get from using the card is between me and the bank. I wouldn't accept a store owner telling me that since I get 2% cash back he is going to add a 2% surcharge so that my bank account drops by the same amount as the guy paying cash.

I can think of three businesses that have added a credit card surcharge. I don't avoid them entirely but I don't visit them as often as I might without the surcharge. Is it legal? Maybe. Is it fair? Arguably. Does it improve the customer experience? No, it has the opposite effect. Is it a good idea? Who knows; some restaurants will say they cannot survive without the 3.5%, some customers will say they did not even notice the 3.5%, and some customers will take their business that don't have a surcharge. Business decision - we'll see how it goes.

Bill14564 09-04-2022 02:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2133120)
Common practice? I use a credit card for almost everything I buy, and I can't remember ever paying an extra fee.
But you also regularly explain that you will NOT use a credit card in a restaurant. Since all the businesses where I can remember seeing this surcharge are restaurants it could explain why you've not seen it.

But no, it is not a common practice to add a surcharge. It seems to be popping up more frequently but still only fewer than five percent of the restaurants we patronize.

retiredguy123 09-04-2022 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2133128)
But you also regularly explain that you will NOT use a credit card in a restaurant. Since all the businesses where I can remember seeing this surcharge are restaurants it could explain why you've not seen it.

But no, it is not a common practice to add a surcharge. It seems to be popping up more frequently but still only fewer than five percent of the restaurants we patronize.
Correct. I would not know about restaurants. But, I use my credit card for everything else. Amazon, Publix, Walmart, Best Buy, Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, medical offices. No fee. I could go on and on. This is definitely not a common practice.

Bonanza 09-04-2022 02:33 PM
A Credit Card Fee in a Restaurant? Wow!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132707)
I always pay cash in a restaurant. I won't allow my credit card to be taken into the back room where it can easily be photographed.

If restaurants start charging a fee to use a credit card, I think they will lose money because customers who pay with a credit card typically spend more money. 3.75 percent is too high. The average fee that businesses pay is about 2 percent, depending on their average transaction amount and the type of card used.
If your credit card is indiscriminately used by someone, your credit card company stands behind you and you won't be charged. That is not a reason to not pay using your card.

If a restaurant begins charging a fee to use a card, I think it could be disastrous for them, particularly in a more expensive restaurant. They will quickly lose business.

golfnut 09-04-2022 03:20 PM
I think Arnold Parkers must be in Leesburg, it's not in The Villages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davefin (Post 2133000)
Where is Arnold Parker's anyway? LOL

LynneH 09-04-2022 03:40 PM
Surcharge for using credit card
 
I just renewed my car's Florida license tag.
The payment options were:
Check in the mail- full price + tax
In person- full price + tax - 70¢
Credit card payment full price + tax + 2.75% surcharge

CoachKandSportsguy 09-04-2022 03:54 PM
So lets say, Visa charges 2%, Amex charges 4 % and less popular cards charge 6%. If the restaurant accepts all these, then lets say the average charge is 4%. So the restaurant charges 4% to cover a blend of card charges. .

Disclose it or not disclose it? If the restaurant tacks 4% onto every item, they don't have to disclose anything, everybody pays the same, like yesteryear. However, their published meal prices are higher, so in a very competitive environment, against a published meal price which doesn't include the cc markup, people will pick the cheaper meal. So now to combat published meal prices without the fee, the all in restaurant has to publish a lower price structure, and tack on the fee.

That is why the restaurants are saying everyone is doing it, because remember the United States' economic competitiveness: the cheapest advertised rates get the eyeballs and the customers.

Are the meals and dining experience the same? If i owned the business, i would be watching my overall
1) repeat customers
2) my meal per size per person
3) the menu items sold
4) my nightly specials success

but I like data analytics for competitive edge

Bogie Shooter 09-04-2022 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill14564 (Post 2133128)
But you also regularly explain that you will NOT use a credit card in a restaurant. Since all the businesses where I can remember seeing this surcharge are restaurants it could explain why you've not seen it.

But no, it is not a common practice to add a surcharge. It seems to be popping up more frequently but still only fewer than five percent of the restaurants we patronize.
Gotcha.............

retiredguy123 09-04-2022 04:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter (Post 2133175)
Gotcha.............
If you are referring to me, I use a credit card for more than 90 percent of my purchases, and I never use one in a restaurant. But, I cannot remember ever being charged a fee. So, I don't think it is a common practice, and hope it never is.

Bonanza 09-04-2022 04:21 PM
This is Old News!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LynneH (Post 2133165)
I just renewed my car's Florida license tag.
The payment options were:
Check in the mail- full price + tax
In person- full price + tax - 70¢
Credit card payment full price + tax + 2.75% surcharge
This is nothing new.
Florida's credit card charge has been in effect for a number of years.

Stu from NYC 09-04-2022 04:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 2133179)
This is nothing new.
Florida's credit card charge has been in effect for a number of years.
VA did the same thing for many years but at least they are up front about the charge

RUCdaze 09-04-2022 06:50 PM
It will be a moot point when digital currency comes in soon. You won't need a credit card, and the government will know how you spend every cent.

ldj1938 09-04-2022 07:10 PM
Could this possibly be the Arnold Palmer Country club? You might remember him? He played golf.


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