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-   -   Credit card fee (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/restaurant-discussions-90/credit-card-fee-334925/)

Road Apple 09-04-2022 10:59 PM
If you have a “no annual fee” card from your bank and are paying the 3.5% tacked onto your bill, you no longer have a free card from your bank. I’d say reduce your tip and jot a note on the merchant receipt as to why you did. The servers will push back on management. And right now, they have plenty of leverage.
Also, that charge from the CC companies to the restaurant is a tax deductible expense for the merchant. So that 3.5% you may be paying is likely inflated and in their favor.
But that’s none of my business lol

Rwirish 09-05-2022 04:53 AM
Where is Arnold Parker’s?

Sandy and Ed 09-05-2022 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2133022)
Sounds good, but:
Customer 1 orders spaghetti marinara at $10.
Customer 2 orders spaghetti/lobster sauce at $35.
In both cases server takes order, delivers 1plate to each customer. Same level of service, yet customer 1 tip (@ 20%) $2 while customer 2 tip (@ 20%) is $7. Customer 2's tip for same service is 350% more.
Exactly!! Servers working at, for example, Chops make more in tips per customer than, let’s say Ruby Tuesday. Why?? Entire way tips are handled in this country is screwed up. If you serve one plate of food and one glass of something and otherwise service a patron at a table why would the venue make a difference??? Just saying…..

BrianL99 09-05-2022 05:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewilson58 (Post 2132817)
Same fee for debit cards???
Most "Debit Cards" are issued by VISA or MasterCharge. The internal process is essentially the same, whether it's credit or debit. The fee however, are different.

There are only 5-6 companies in the USA, that actually "process" these things. Then there's an intermediate processor that is the conduit between the business you're doing business with and the actual processor.

In general, one of the highest processing fees are charge for the hospitality business, I suspect, because of the high-risk in the transient business. While the direct and obvious charge will usually be a hair under 2%, that doesn't recognize the transaction fee that's assessed to every transaction (I *think* that fee is about 8¢) and an increase if you're using a "Rewards Card". Over the course of a year, the average credit card fees for a restaurant, is likely to average close to 3.0% - 3.5%. (I just checked one of our hospitality businesses and for the month of July, we were at 2.5%. We have an extremely low rate, based on our history and volume.)

All that said, it used to be considered the "cost of doing business". If a business didn't take CC's, they figured they would lose significant business, so they absorbed the fees.

Now it's just the norm and the convenience fee for that "cashless society" we've been promised for 10 years is now here and the consumer is paying for it.

birdawg 09-05-2022 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LG999 (Post 2132974)
I have to pay my hair dresser an extra $5 if I use a credit or debit card. She owns the business. Another way of saying “I prefer cash” ?
And they get to keep the 7% tax you paid.

Glowfromminnesota 09-05-2022 07:14 AM
My hairdresser started charging 3.75 percent if you use a credit card several years ago. If you use a debit card—as a debit card with a code—there is no charge. Seems like smaller business are starting to charge the fees.

Steve 09-05-2022 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwirish (Post 2133249)
Where is Arnold Parker’s?
It's just down the street from the Jack Nickelby Country Club.

Vermilion Villager 09-05-2022 08:48 AM
There's a local bar up here in northern Minnesota. They started charging a 2.5% surcharge. The bartender was defending the owner saying "last year Archie had to pay $50,000 in credit card fees!" I responded "do you know if he paid $50,000 in fees that means he had $2 million in sales?… Let that sink in for a minute considering he's paying you minimum wage". The guy stood there with a dumbfounded look on his face and you could see the gears turning.

Then I pulled out my checkbook and wrote him a check. :pepper2:

sborlove 09-05-2022 09:28 AM
If the establishment does not post the signage for the charge fee than it is not a MUST pay fee. You can demand they remove it. The business must have posted any additional fee's in the business so that consumers are aware of the charge ahead of time. If they have that posted than it is up to you whether you stay and purchase or leave.

mlmarr 09-05-2022 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ral51Bjl (Post 2132701)
My golf ladies went to Arnold Parker’s yesterday for lunch. We knew it was pricey but the food and service are usually good. When given our checks we put our credit cards to pay the bill. When the server returned with the copy to sign, we noticed the bill was higher. I called the server over and she stated that it was a 3.75% service charge for using a credit card and this was on the bottom of checks. We don’t usually look at the bottom of the check unless it has the gratuity suggestions on it. Beware of this on your checks.
price of everything is going up.. including bank fees to process your credit card .. next trip take cash along.. pretty soon your cc/miles will be worth zero too..

pauld315 09-05-2022 09:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132755)
The 3.75 percent fee would be about double what I paid when I owned a retail business. But, I don't know what the current bank fees are. It seems too high though. Their online menu doesn't seem to say anything about the fee. Also, I wonder if they are able to distinguish between a credit card and a debit card in all cases.
Having owned several businesses, the fee the bank charges varies based on volume and other factors. I wouldn't doubt for a second the 3.75% charge.

pauld315 09-05-2022 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjobob (Post 2132886)
All credit card companies charge the merchant fees for using their card, if the merchan.t passes these charges on it should be noted on your bill . The fee is based on the merchants volume of sales , higher sales lower fee .
Or, they could just raise their prices by 4% to cover the cost. Of course, that means that even those that pay cash would pay more.

capecoralbill 09-05-2022 10:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy and Ed (Post 2132906)
Considering they now “for our convenience” suggest a minimum tip of 18%, have increased the meal cost and in some cases reduced the meal quality and selection, might as well do more cooking at home.
Yes, hidden/camouflaged fees everywhere, need a lawyer just to understand the bill. I also am not happy about many tips starting at 18 %.

I wonder if all this extra income is reported to the IRS?

fdpaq0580 09-05-2022 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecoralbill (Post 2133383)
Yes, hidden/camouflaged fees everywhere, need a lawyer just to understand the bill. I also am not happy about many tips starting at 18 %.

I wonder if all this extra income is reported to the IRS?
"For your convenience, we suggest xxx% tip". How dare they try to suggest, recommend or in any other way try to passively/aggressively try to bully me to spend my money the way they want me to.
And, "NO", I highly doubt that "all this extra income is reported to the IRS".

Keefelane66 09-05-2022 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by capecoralbill (Post 2133383)
Yes, hidden/camouflaged fees everywhere, need a lawyer just to understand the bill. I also am not happy about many tips starting at 18 %.

I wonder if all this extra income is reported to the IRS?
Tipping has got out of hand we consider it a plate delivery fee. Just because prices are inflated doesn't mean an automatic increase.
If the restaurant is imposing up to 3.75 cc fee along with meal tax7% we deduct the total and tip on meals not fees and taxes. We tip on service provided by waiter/waitress not necessarily an automatic 18%

fdpaq0580 09-05-2022 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keefelane66 (Post 2133394)
Tipping has got out of hand we consider it a plate delivery fee. Just because prices are inflated doesn't mean an automatic increase.
If the restaurant is imposing up to 3.75 cc fee along with meal tax7% we deduct the total and tip on meals not fees and taxes. We tip on service provided by waiter/waitress not necessarily an automatic 18%
Last sentence does not match previous sentence, "tip on meals". Tip sould be calculated on pre-tax and fees total, if you tip on meals.
My point about tipping relation to the cost of the meal is that it makes no sense. Whether the server delivers a $10 burger or a $30 steak, the effort for the server is the same, therefore the tips should be the same.

MrFlorida 09-05-2022 11:30 AM
One of my friends was complaining that while paying cash, the waiter came back and said they don't have change....go figure.

Michael G. 09-05-2022 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2133400)
Whether the server delivers a $10 burger or a $30 steak, the effort for the server is the same, therefore the tips should be the same.
Agree, that's why I go to McDonalds, order my 2 sausages McMuffin, a senior coffee,
sit outside and watch people.

No tipping, I can pick up my own meal, takes a couple minutes, and get a pleasant
smile with "Thank You Sir, have a great day".

Now life doesn't get any better than that. :thumbup:

Mrs.Guy 09-05-2022 11:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdpaq0580 (Post 2133400)
Last sentence does not match previous sentence, "tip on meals". Tip sould be calculated on pre-tax and fees total, if you tip on meals.
My point about tipping relation to the cost of the meal is that it makes no sense. Whether the server delivers a $10 burger or a $30 steak, the effort for the server is the same, therefore the tips should be the same.
:undecided: Soooo.....is it safe to say that when you get a $10 burger you tip like it's a $30 steak? Or is it the other way around? :laugh:

:icon_hungry: THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK TIPPING IS A CITY IN CHINA! ;)

Mrs.Guy 09-05-2022 11:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael G. (Post 2133409)
Agree, that's why I go to McDonalds, order my 2 sausages McMuffin, a senior coffee,
sit outside and watch people.

No tipping, I can pick up my own meal, takes a couple minutes, and get a pleasant
smile with "Thank You Sir, have a great day".

Now life doesn't get any better than that. :thumbup:
:mmmm: Surf and Turf every night...... filet-o-fish and a big mac???? :$:

Skip 09-05-2022 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrFlorida (Post 2133406)
One of my friends was complaining that while paying cash, the waiter came back and said they don't have change....go figure.
We had that happen too. They rounded UP the total paying cash. When I complained and they said "we don't do coins", I made them round DOWN to the lower dollar.

Some restaurants (one in particular nearby) even with a reservation, will say "Go to the bar and we'll get you when your table is ready." Yet the restaurant is empty and the servers are standing around waiting for patrons. Obviously we left and don't go there any more.

This behavior is getting out of hand.

Skip

Skip 09-05-2022 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2133410)
TIPPING IS A CITY IN CHINA! ;)
No, it's an old tower in Pisa, Italy.

Skip

Tom52 09-05-2022 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pauld315 (Post 2133363)
Or, they could just raise their prices by 4% to cover the cost. Of course, that means that even those that pay cash would pay more.
The majority of people have been paying with credit cards at restaurants for years. I would bet that the restaurants have had credit card fees built in their prices for many years as well. This is just a new excuse to increase prices even further.

DDToto41 09-05-2022 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132727)
Interesting. The credit card fee seems to violate this Florida law.

Update: Although this Florida law is still current, a Federal court ruled that it is unconstitutional. So, it may be legal to charge the fee. Go figure.

Fla. Stat. §501.0117

(1) A seller or lessor in a sales or lease transaction may not impose a surcharge on the buyer or lessee for electing to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means, if the seller or lessor accepts payment by credit card. A surcharge is any additional amount imposed at the time of a sale or lease transaction by the seller or lessor that increases the charge to the buyer or lessee for the privilege of using a credit card to make payment. Charges imposed pursuant to approved state or federal tariffs are not considered to be a surcharge, and charges made under such tariffs are exempt from this section. A convenience fee imposed upon a student or family paying tuition, fees, or other student account charges by credit card to a William L. Boyd, IV, Florida resident access grant eligible institution, as defined in §1009.89, or to a private school, as defined in §1002.01, is not considered to be a surcharge and is exempt from this section if the amount of the convenience fee does not exceed the total cost charged by the credit card company to the institution. The term “credit card” includes those cards for which unpaid balances are payable on demand. This section does not apply to the offering of a discount for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use of a credit card, if the discount is offered to all prospective customers.

(2) A person who violates the provisions of subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in §775.082 or §775.083.
The state will charge you 3% if you wanted to use a credit card or a debit card. And they have been doing it since I came in 2005.

retiredguy123 09-05-2022 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDToto41 (Post 2133436)
The state will charge you 3% if you wanted to use a credit card or a debit card. And they have been doing it since I came in 2005.
It does seem hypocritical that they would not comply with their own law.

Stu from NYC 09-05-2022 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip (Post 2133421)
We had that happen too. They rounded UP the total paying cash. When I complained and they said "we don't do coins", I made them round DOWN to the lower dollar.

Some restaurants (one in particular nearby) even with a reservation, will say "Go to the bar and we'll get you when your table is ready." Yet the restaurant is empty and the servers are standing around waiting for patrons. Obviously we left and don't go there any more.

This behavior is getting out of hand.

Skip
Wow I would wave goodbye to manager as we left.

fdpaq0580 09-05-2022 05:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.Guy (Post 2133410)
:undecided: Soooo.....is it safe to say that when you get a $10 burger you tip like it's a $30 steak? Or is it the other way around? :laugh:

:icon_hungry: THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK TIPPING IS A CITY IN CHINA! ;)
In an earlier post I said that I typically tip $20% of the pre-tax/fees total. But, that doesn't mean that I like or agree with the practice. A practice, by the way, which puts pressure on the server to upsell from the burger to the steak and drink other than water. Suggest appetizers and dessert. Oh, and for $x dollars more you can have the salad bar. Your $10 dollar burger and water has become $63. You may have had an average waiter/waitress, but you got a great sales person.
Best of all, even though you didn't get what you wanted, you let everyone know you can afford it and you won't have to suffer those who want to show that you are a cheapskate.

JMintzer 09-05-2022 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vermilion Villager (Post 2133345)
There's a local bar up here in northern Minnesota. They started charging a 2.5% surcharge. The bartender was defending the owner saying "last year Archie had to pay $50,000 in credit card fees!" I responded "do you know if he paid $50,000 in fees that means he had $2 million in sales?… Let that sink in for a minute considering he's paying you minimum wage". The guy stood there with a dumbfounded look on his face and you could see the gears turning.

Then I pulled out my checkbook and wrote him a check. :pepper2:
Any clue to what the bar's profit margin was?

I doubt it was as high as you think it is...

Whitley 09-06-2022 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandy and Ed (Post 2132906)
Considering they now “for our convenience” suggest a minimum tip of 18%, have increased the meal cost and in some cases reduced the meal quality and selection, might as well do more cooking at home.
What, if anything do you tip on take out. I work from 6 am, usually leaving around 4 or 5. Too tired to cook. When I pick up take out (BBQ, Chinese etc) they have suggested tips on the bottom. I have been tipping on takeout for a few years now. I tip 20% when I eat at the restaurant (I'm so old I remember 12%, then 15, then 18 and now 20). This is for the service performed by the waiter. Who gets the tip on take out?

Stu from NYC 09-06-2022 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitley (Post 2133591)
What, if anything do you tip on take out. I work from 6 am, usually leaving around 4 or 5. Too tired to cook. When I pick up take out (BBQ, Chinese etc) they have suggested tips on the bottom. I have been tipping on takeout for a few years now. I tip 20% when I eat at the restaurant (I'm so old I remember 12%, then 15, then 18 and now 20). This is for the service performed by the waiter. Who gets the tip on take out?
We tip for being served at a restaurant or having empty plates removed and water glasses refilled at a buffet.

Do not tip the cashier who hands us the food to go and takes our money. As far as I am concerned the restaurant should be paying him/her his wages.

rsimpson 09-06-2022 08:27 AM
Merchant Agreements
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by retiredguy123 (Post 2132727)
Interesting. The credit card fee seems to violate this Florida law.

Update: Although this Florida law is still current, a Federal court ruled that it is unconstitutional. So, it may be legal to charge the fee. Go figure.

Fla. Stat. §501.0117

(1) A seller or lessor in a sales or lease transaction may not impose a surcharge on the buyer or lessee for electing to use a credit card in lieu of payment by cash, check, or similar means, if the seller or lessor accepts payment by credit card. A surcharge is any additional amount imposed at the time of a sale or lease transaction by the seller or lessor that increases the charge to the buyer or lessee for the privilege of using a credit card to make payment. Charges imposed pursuant to approved state or federal tariffs are not considered to be a surcharge, and charges made under such tariffs are exempt from this section. A convenience fee imposed upon a student or family paying tuition, fees, or other student account charges by credit card to a William L. Boyd, IV, Florida resident access grant eligible institution, as defined in §1009.89, or to a private school, as defined in §1002.01, is not considered to be a surcharge and is exempt from this section if the amount of the convenience fee does not exceed the total cost charged by the credit card company to the institution. The term “credit card” includes those cards for which unpaid balances are payable on demand. This section does not apply to the offering of a discount for the purpose of inducing payment by cash, check, or other means not involving the use of a credit card, if the discount is offered to all prospective customers.

(2) A person who violates the provisions of subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in §775.082 or §775.083.
In addition - Merchant Agreements between businesses and Card Processors PROHIBIT (or use to when I was on Commercial Banking) this fee practice. Many are now charging this fee, which is bogus.

Stu from NYC 09-06-2022 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rsimpson (Post 2133630)
In addition - Merchant Agreements between businesses and Card Processors PROHIBIT (or use to when I was on Commercial Banking) this fee practice. Many are now charging this fee, which is bogus.
But the processors seem to be turning a blind eye to this so other than get into an argument with owner or manager what is one to do other than take business elsewhere?

Two Bills 09-06-2022 11:39 AM
Debit Cards are basically a cash payment direct from your bank a/c and should have no charge.
I will not eat in an establishment that adds any surcharge for a CC. which should be an inbuilt cost, or if service charge is added that presumes I wish to leave a tip.
I am a good tipper, but also have the balls to say "You get nothing" if service is bad.
I never blame a good server if food is indifferent either, as they are not the cook.
I just don't go back!

JMintzer 09-06-2022 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2133710)
Debit Cards are basically a cash payment direct from your bank a/c and should have no charge.
I will not eat in an establishment that adds any surcharge for a CC. which should be an inbuilt cost, or if service charge is added that presumes I wish to leave a tip.
I am a good tipper, but also have the balls to say "You get nothing" if service is bad.
I never blame a good server if food is indifferent either, as they are not the cook.
I just don't go back!
There is a big difference of what you think "should" happen and what actually happens...

I get dinged for every single payment, with both a percentage AND a "swipe fee"...

I find is astounding that there are so many commenting on this thread who have never run a business or taken CC payments... Most haven't a clue as to what they're talking about...

fdpaq0580 09-06-2022 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2133725)
There is a big difference of what you think "should" happen and what actually happens.
Many, if not most, things don't go the way you think they "should".

fdpaq0580 09-06-2022 02:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2133725)
Most haven't a clue as to what they're talking about...
Presumptuous. But probably fairly accurate.

fdpaq0580 09-06-2022 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip (Post 2133421)
We had that happen too. They rounded UP the total paying cash. When I complained and they said "we don't do coins", I made them round DOWN to the lower dollar.

Some restaurants (one in particular nearby) even with a reservation, will say "Go to the bar and we'll get you when your table is ready." Yet the restaurant is empty and the servers are standing around waiting for patrons. Obviously we left and don't go there any more.

This behavior is getting out of hand.

Skip
For the establishment to "round up" is simple theft. If they can't make change I am guessing they didn't try very hard to find change. Telling the customer that they rounded up says a lot about the ethics of the business and management.

Two Bills 09-06-2022 03:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2133725)
There is a big difference of what you think "should" happen and what actually happens...

I get dinged for every single payment, with both a percentage AND a "swipe fee"...

I find is astounding that there are so many commenting on this thread who have never run a business or taken CC payments... Most haven't a clue as to what they're talking about...
I have never been charged for a debit card payment buy a business or my bank..
I said I won't pay CC surcharge in a restaurant. I use cash mostly anyway.
I was not commenting on collecting CC, or DC payments, and I do have a clue, that's why my money goes further!

JMintzer 09-06-2022 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Bills (Post 2133780)
I have never been charged for a debit card payment buy a business or my bank..
I said I won't pay CC surcharge in a restaurant. I use cash mostly anyway.
I was not commenting on collecting CC, or DC payments, and I do have a clue, that's why my money goes further!
YOU don't get charged by your bank when you use your credit card either... No one has been talking about that.

The business DOES get charged for BOTH Debit AND Credit Cards...

BrianL99 09-12-2022 05:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMintzer (Post 2133786)
YOU don't get charged by your bank when you use your credit card either... No one has been talking about that.

The business DOES get charged for BOTH Debit AND Credit Cards...
The business gets charged a nominal fee for a Debit Card, unless they're doing busing with some tiny bank, that's exempt.

It's a violation of Federal Law (Durbin Amendment) to charge a surcharge on Debit Card or a Pre-Paid Card transaction.

What CC processors can charge for Debit Card transactions is also regulated by the Durbin Amendment and it's significant less than the transaction fee for a Credit Card.

If I'm not mistaken, all VISA & MC Merchant Agreements also prohibit charges for Debit Card use and will deny the charge.


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