[thelegges]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

Question.

Two waitresses and the service is identical.

Do you tip based solely on service? Or if one is really cute and the other is not very attractive, does that impact the tip?

65yo VS 20yo
220lb VS 100lb
Blond VS Ethnic
Med Student VS High School

Many would tip the same for either for excellent service, a job well done…

The balance would leave $2 no matter what.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by Rainger99

Question.

Two waitresses and the service is identical.

Do you tip based solely on service? Or if one is really cute and the other is not very attractive, does that impact the tip?

I would tip solely on service. The calculations I do to determine the tip amount don't consider appearance at all.

Attitude matters more than looks. If I'm trying to decide where in the 18% - 22% range to tip, cute won't change the needle but a bad attitude certainly will.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I understand the rule, but the IRS has a special tax rule for tipped employees. They are only required to pay income tax on 8 percent of the gross income of the business as pro-rated by the employer on the W-2. I am not sure how the IRS views this situation, but I think the tipped employees may no longer be eligible for the 8 percent rule. Also, how would the employer report the pooled tip income received by the non-tipped employees, who are not eligible for the 8 percent rule? It sounds like the tipped employees may lose their special status as tipped employees. Very confusing. As a restaurant server, I don't think I would work for an employer who shared my tip income with non-tipped employees.

I wouldn't either. I quit one waitress gig because of it, and Gator's Dockside in Spanish Springs shut down *IN PART* because of it.

*I say in part, because there were a lot of things that led to it being shut down. Post-COVID business never really picked back up and they lost most of their staff. When they rehired, they couldn't be very picky because all the "good" staffers had already moved on to better jobs, or quit entirely to go to school to find an actual career. What was left, was "people who didn't care about customer service and just wanted a paycheck." They were paid poorly, they did a bad job, morale was down the drain, the management was more and more frustrated and took it out on the staff, and the staff were sub-par, and the customer base just really stopped caring about going there at all.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

I wouldn't either. I quit one waitress gig because of it, and Gator's Dockside in Spanish Springs shut down *IN PART* because of it.

*I say in part, because there were a lot of things that led to it being shut down. Post-COVID business never really picked back up and they lost most of their staff. When they rehired, they couldn't be very picky because all the "good" staffers had already moved on to better jobs, or quit entirely to go to school to find an actual career. What was left, was "people who didn't care about customer service and just wanted a paycheck." They were paid poorly, they did a bad job, morale was down the drain, the management was more and more frustrated and took it out on the staff, and the staff were sub-par, and the customer base just really stopped caring about going there at all.

I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by thelegges

65yo VS 20yo
220lb VS 100lb
Blond VS Ethnic
Med Student VS High School

Many would tip the same for either for excellent service, a job well done…

The balance would leave $2 no matter what.

Depending on the order, $2 might be 20% or better. Just sayin'.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by thelegges

Simple solution, Uber Eats. Give the waitstaff a break from those who consider them lower class.

Since Uber Eats prices are listed at a higher price, customer happy that no tip is required (even though the price is 15-25% higher than eating in).
Zero tip to Uber not a big deal, (they know where you live).

I bet most will eat right out of the container instead of plating. Win for all

Uhhh? "they know where you live"? So, we are back to customer intimidation/manipulation, even at your home. Oh, 🤬!

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

Worse then absurd. It should be criminal. It is certainly unethical. Ban tipping and pay an acceptable wage for the job. Ultimately everyone will be better off. Just mho.

[JoMar]

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

I would add that it is bad enough for an employer to expect customers to pay the wages of tipped employees, but to also expect the tipped employees to pay the wages of the non-tipped employees is absurd.

How would the wages of tipped employees be paid if not by the customers? You don't like tipping? Fine, but how will you react to a 20% price increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

For some, it is a hard decision because of the atmosphere of intimidation that has been created by the restaurant industry. If you are immune to the intimidation, there no problem.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

How would the wages of tipped employees be paid if not by the customers? You don't like tipping? Fine, but how will you react to a 20% price increase? The money has to come from somewhere.

I think most people, including me, would be happy to pay higher prices if tipping was not expected or allowed.

[Pugchief]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

Sorry, no. If you don't want to tip, don't eat at table service restaurants. You don't have to agree with the culture, but it is expected of you to conform.

[jimhoward]

Restaurants are not the only place where a percentage of the sale goes to the person taking the order.

Most of the time, if you buy a product or service, and there is a person in the loop taking your order, that person is getting paid a percentage. And its not based on how many hours they work, but on how big the bill is. Many many businesses and industries work that way. Everyone in the world is not paid by the hour or on salary.

In other businesses we would call it an incentive or a bonus or a commission and bury the cost in the price of the product or service. But restaurants call it a TIP and customers pay it directly and control the amount

A TIP is viewed as an entirely different thing than a sales commission. But at the end of the day its the same result. The employees is getting a low base and a percentage of the restaurant's revenue associated with their effort.

Its not like tipping a hotel Ballman or a Valet where you tip based on how many bags they carry, or that they brought you your undamaged car promptly. Its instead a percentage of the bill. So it is really a TIP? I would say its just a sales commission in Sheep's clothing. Which is fine.

The other thing about restaurants is that many view waiting tables as a menial position or a job for kids and therefore not deserving of a high rate of pay. The thought is that Server should be paid a "living wage" maybe a few bucks above the minimum and by the hour. The fact that they asked me if a want a cocktail and told me the special doesn't make them a salesperson. To that I would say you control the TIP amount. It is only social pressure that is pushing it higher. You have that power in a restaurant, which you don't in other businesses.

[thelegges]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Uhhh? "they know where you live"? So, we are back to customer intimidation/manipulation, even at your home. Oh, 🤬!

Uber driver has options on delivery to except or reject. So if mileage, area, or difficult delivery, the driver can reject the delivery, and it passes to the next driver.
Eventually if the same address is consistently rejected. No intimidation manipulation just…….NO FOOD FOR YOU….
More than once have picked up an order when the delivery driver walked in and quit. 11 deliveries and total of $7 in tips doesn’t pay for gas.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by JoMar

Tipping is a personal choice so why do people even ask on here? Silly. If you don't want to tip then don't. It's not that hard a decision.

For many, probably most, it actually is, for those who want buck the tide of current practice. Public is told that tipping makes others think you are nice, so you begin tipping. "The pie and coffee was fine. $2.50? Here's $3. Keep the change". You're a nice guy. Restaurant owner says "Hey, there is money in tips. I bet I could start paying the waitress less and she'll make it up in tips" word gets out and nice people like you want to help, so you tip a little more. Some how word gets out that "it is customary to tip 5%". So nice people tip 5%. But somehow 5% is now chump change. Nice people give 8%. You're nice, so 8% hits the table.
The unknown, but often quoted experts, "they", have let it be known that 20% is the current standard, but nice folks, like you and I always round up or go 25% ... or more.
Unlike a sales commission or bonus, it is built into the deal. The amount is between the sales rep and the manager/owner. The customer never has to write a check to the sales rep to pay a tip.