[New Englander]

Attention, Villagers, it's Prime Day, get your charge card ready and scoop up all the bargains.

[dewilson58]

Or preceived bargains.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Or preceived bargains.

Correct.

For example, they are offering Keurig K Express coffee makers for $60, which they say is reduced from $110. The problem is that you can buy these coffee makers for less than $80 at any time in almost any store. This is deceptive advertising that the FTC should be prosecuting and fining them for. After all, it is their job.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

Correct.

For example, they are offering Keurig K Express coffee makers for $60, which they say is reduced from $110. The problem is that you can buy these coffee makers for less than $80 at any time in almost any store. This is deceptive advertising that the FTC should be prosecuting and fining them for. After all, it is their job.

Amazon states the list price usually comes from the manufacturer.
Keurig says the list price for that model is $109.99.
Where is the deception?

Amazon shows the price history for many (most? all?) items.
Amazon shows this model has been priced around $90 for the last 30 days.
$30 off (33%) seems like a pretty good bargain to me.

Keurig will sell the unit for $69.99
Walmart will sell the unit for $95.99
Amazon will sell the unit for $59.99
I could not find the unit in any other store even after spending time searching.
I was going to write that I'll take convenience even if it costs a little more but in this case, convenience appears to be less expensive too.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Amazon states the list price usually comes from the manufacturer.
Keurig says the list price for that model is $109.99.
Where is the deception?

Amazon shows the price history for many (most? all?) items.
Amazon shows this model has been priced around $90 for the last 30 days.
$30 off (33%) seems like a pretty good bargain to me.

Keurig will sell the unit for $69.99
Walmart will sell the unit for $95.99
Amazon will sell the unit for $59.99
I could not find the unit in any other store even after spending time searching.
I was going to write that I'll take convenience even if it costs a little more but in this case, convenience appears to be less expensive too.

According to the law, here is how the FTC determines if a list price is deceptive:

"How the FTC Evaluates List Prices (16 CFR Part 233)
Under the Guides Against Deceptive Pricing, regulatory authorities check if reference prices are honest or fabricated:
• ✅ Genuine Prevailing Prices: Manufacturer list prices used for comparisons must reflect actual, prevailing market prices where substantial sales happen.
• ⚠️ Fictitious Reference Rates: Advertising an inflated "list price" or fake MSRP that consumers never actually pay to create a false sense of savings is illegal.
• ������ Substantial Sales Requirement: A comparative discount claim is deceptive if the item was never regularly sold at the higher "list" reference price in the local trade area."

Amazon is not alone in this deception. Every time there is a holiday with a sale, many stores will advertise a bogus high price for these Keurig coffee makers. Someone needs to be a terrible shopper to ever pay the stated list price for these products. If consumers never actually pay the list price, the FTC says that using that price in an ad is illegal (see bullet Nos. 2 and 3 above). This Keurig coffee maker scam has been going on for years, and it doesn't seem that the FTC is doing anything to stop it.

[retiredguy123]

Amazon Prime Day does have some good bargains, but you need to know the product price history to know what to buy.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

According to the law, here is how the FTC determines if a list price is deceptive:

"How the FTC Evaluates List Prices (16 CFR Part 233)
Under the Guides Against Deceptive Pricing, regulatory authorities check if reference prices are honest or fabricated:
• ✅ Genuine Prevailing Prices: Manufacturer list prices used for comparisons must reflect actual, prevailing market prices where substantial sales happen.
• ⚠️ Fictitious Reference Rates: Advertising an inflated "list price" or fake MSRP that consumers never actually pay to create a false sense of savings is illegal.
• ������ Substantial Sales Requirement: A comparative discount claim is deceptive if the item was never regularly sold at the higher "list" reference price in the local trade area."

Amazon is not alone in this deception. Every time there is a holiday with a sale, many stores will advertise a bogus high price for these Keurig coffee makers. Someone needs to be a terrible shopper to ever pay the stated list price for these products. If consumers never actually pay the list price, the FTC says that using that price in an ad is illegal (see bullet Nos. 2 and 3 above). This Keurig coffee maker scam has been going on for years, and it doesn't seem that the FTC is doing anything to stop it.

I'm not sure your complaint is with Amazon. The price shown is the same price the manufacturer suggests for the product on their website. How is that price anything other than the price suggested by the manufacturer?

It could even be difficult accusing Keurig of giving a phony MSRP that no one ever actually pays. We have long been accustomed to automobile manufacturers providing a MSRP that few actually pay. Perhaps most manufacturers provide a suggested price to the retailer that a consumer never sees; we're just seeing the MSRP in this case as Amazon uses it for marketing.

It seems like I've seen a discussion before about the legality of a manufacturer forcing a retailer to set a particular price that must be charged. If that is the case, the MSRP remains the MSRP even if some/many/most retailers choose to sell below it.

Amazon does differentiate between list price/MSRP and typical price. In the case of the Keurig the price shown is labeled as the list price.

[BrianL99]

Please don't post photos of you modeling your latest purchases.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

I'm not sure your complaint is with Amazon. The price shown is the same price the manufacturer suggests for the product on their website. How is that price anything other than the price suggested by the manufacturer?

It could even be difficult accusing Keurig of giving a phony MSRP that no one ever actually pays. We have long been accustomed to automobile manufacturers providing a MSRP that few actually pay. Perhaps most manufacturers provide a suggested price to the retailer that a consumer never sees; we're just seeing the MSRP in this case as Amazon uses it for marketing.

It seems like I've seen a discussion before about the legality of a manufacturer forcing a retailer to set a particular price that must be charged. If that is the case, the MSRP remains the MSRP even if some/many/most retailers choose to sell below it.

Amazon does differentiate between list price/MSRP and typical price. In the case of the Keurig the price shown is labeled as the list price.

My complaint is with Amazon and the FTC. DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING IS ILLEGAL. Amazon is engaging is deceptive advertising and the FTC is not doing their job to stop it. Amazon knows that they are not discounting the product by 46 percent, as you even admitted by saying the discount was really 33 percent.

I guess you could make a case that Keurig is not doing anything illegal because there is nothing wrong with listing and selling the product for $110, if a retailer could get someone to pay that much.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by retiredguy123

My complaint is with Amazon and the FTC. DECEPTIVE ADVERTISING IS ILLEGAL. Amazon is engaging is deceptive advertising and the FTC is not doing their job to stop it. Amazon knows that they are not discounting the product by 46 percent, as you even admitted by saying the discount was really 33 percent.

I guess you could make a case that Keurig is not doing anything illegal because there is nothing wrong with listing and selling the product for $110, if a retailer could get someone to pay that much.

We are not going to agree.

Amazon is not advertising that they are discounting the product by 46%. The page clearly states it is 46% off the list price. Hovering over the 'i' for information says the list price is the MSRP. The MSRP is $109.99 and the price is $59.99 which is 45% less. Nothing at all deceptive about that.

If a consumer misunderstands or doesn't make an attempt at understanding, that is something not under Amazon's control.

It would be deceptive if Amazon advertised that the typical sales price was $109.99, but they don't. Under the "Price History" button they show the price of the product for the past 30 days which was about $90. I didn't "admit" that the discount was 33%, I just did the math that shows the $60 current price is 33% less than the $90 that the product has been selling for over the last 30 days.

Not deceptive, not confusing, all right there on the page in black, blue, gray, red, and white.

[BrianL99]

$52.64. Decent deal, huh?

Price error, but they found it quickly & it's gone.

[asianthree]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Or preceived bargains.

One just has to create a save for later list (always have SFL list), prior to each Prime day.

13 of my 18 items were 21-40% less. My shopping app then verified prices still far less than 30 different retail companies.

Example a rain shower kit we bought 6 months ago, and love, ( 2 minutes to hot water) was $43 less.

[ThirdOfFive]

Caveat Emptor! Things are not always what they appear to be.

Case in point: I like Ben Hogan golf shirts: they're a mite spendy, but they wear like iron and retain their look and color far longer than stuff you might buy more cheaply off the rack at (say) Target. They're made by Perry Ellis. It turns out that Perry Ellis makes TWO versions of Ben Hogan golf shirts; the "signature" line that you purchase from stores specializing in golf equipment and apparel, and the "performance" line, which end up in stores like Wal-Mart and sell for about half as much as the signature line. The thing is, both examples LOOK the same on the rack. They may be (probably are) labeled differently but who is really going to know the difference in quality between the two lines--both sound quite positive--unless they've researched it and know the difference going in?

The thing is, Amazon gets a lot of it's stuff via third-party sellers, a lot of it is then commingled at Amazon warehouses (they're called "fulfillment centers" for some esoteric reason) and the amazon personnel or computers might not know, or even care, if a product is "signature" or "performance". Bottom line: that Ben Hogan golf shirt that you just purchased from Amazon on Prime Day might be dirt cheap and look great at first, but after a few washings will be anything but.

Can this one example be generalized to other products? Who knows. But Jeff Bezos didn't get rich by giving away the store.

[MrFlorida]

And I waited for this ? What a letdown.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by ThirdOfFive

Caveat Emptor! Things are not always what they appear to be.

Case in point: I like Ben Hogan golf shirts: they're a mite spendy, but they wear like iron and retain their look and color far longer than stuff you might buy more cheaply off the rack at (say) Target. They're made by Perry Ellis. It turns out that Perry Ellis makes TWO versions of Ben Hogan golf shirts; the "signature" line that you purchase from stores specializing in golf equipment and apparel, and the "performance" line, which end up in stores like Wal-Mart and sell for about half as much as the signature line. The thing is, both examples LOOK the same on the rack. They may be (probably are) labeled differently but who is really going to know the difference in quality between the two lines--both sound quite positive--unless they've researched it and know the difference going in?

If you want to easily know the difference and what you're buying ...

If it's the Ben Hogan Signature line, the logo will (99% of the time) not be on the "sleeve", it will be on the neck yolk or chest. Also, that line will use the Ben Hogan "Starburst" logo ... not the "Ben Hogan" name in script.

The same thing is true for the Callaway line, but distinguishing them is a little different. If the tag reads: "Callaway Premium" or "Callaway Legacy Collection, that's the Green Grass Shop, top tied.

If the tag reads Callaway alongside a mix of their technical performance names—such as Opti-Dri (moisture-wicking), Opti-Shield, or Swing Tech, that's the "standard" line.

They also have a 3rd Tier. If the label lacks any technical "Opti-" or "Swing Tech" text and simply has a basic, flat-printed logo, it's their "value priced" tier.

With Callaway, you can always tell by the original price tag. If it's got a fancy, very thick, quality "tag" on it, it's the Pro Shop version. An average, typical semi-fancy tag, you have the middle tier.

If it's a crappy price tag like you're used to seeing at Ross or someplace like that, you're at the bottom tier.