[rubicon]

The circumstances surrounding the NYC police actions to arrest Eric Garner include the following:

1. Eric Garner (EG) was clearly resisting arrest and if he had not then force would have not been necessary.

2. EG had demonstrated his resistance by swatting away the arms of police and telling them not to touch him.

3. It was unlikely that the police would have concluded that because EG did not want to be arrested that they should comply.

4. EG had a history of 30 arrests since 1980 including assault and grand
larceny charges. so this was not his first rodeo

5. He was on bail for selling illegal cigarettes, driving without license, marijuana possession and false impersonation


6. EG was 6'3" weighed 350 suffered from heart disease, severe asthma, diabetes, obesity and sleep apnea.

7. EG did not die at the scene but an hour later from cardiac arrest

8. It is claimed that the choke hold was used 1128 times since 2009 as reported by the civilian Complaint Board and a take down techniques taught at the police academy

9. the grand jury heard this case from Sept 29 until its decision Dec 3

10. The grand jury had 23 members 9 of whom were non-white

11. To charge the police officer with being criminally negligent the grand jury would have had to determine the police officer knew there was a "substantial risk"

12. Orta who shot the video tape was indicted on weapons charges

Newsmax Dec 6

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by rubicon

The circumstances surrounding the NYC police actions to arrest Eric Garner include the following:

1. Eric Garner (EG) was clearly resisting arrest and if he had not then force would have not been necessary.

2. EG had demonstrated his resistance by swatting away the arms of police and telling them not to touch him.

3. It was unlikely that the police would have concluded that because EG did not want to be arrested that they should comply.

4. EG had a history of 30 arrests since 1980 including assault and grand
larceny charges. so this was not his first rodeo

5. He was on bail for selling illegal cigarettes, driving without license, marijuana possession and false impersonation


6. EG was 6'3" weighed 350 suffered from heart disease, severe asthma, diabetes, obesity and sleep apnea.

7. EG did not die at the scene but an hour later from cardiac arrest

8. It is claimed that the choke hold was used 1128 times since 2009 as reported by the civilian Complaint Board and a take down techniques taught at the police academy

9. the grand jury heard this case from Sept 29 until its decision Dec 3

10. The grand jury had 23 members 9 of whom were non-white

11. To charge the police officer with being criminally negligent the grand jury would have had to determine the police officer knew there was a "substantial risk"

12. Orta who shot the video tape was indicted on weapons charges

Newsmax Dec 6

To answer your question: No.

[manaboutown]

They really do not want to confront and/or consider the facts, lest they have to rationally analyze, think and become confused. They just want to vent their feelings, many violently and criminally, based on what they are relentlessly told and sold, time and time again, by their "leaders" and the propaganda machine known as the mainstream media.

[MikeV]

Protesters are being used by some to further their agenda. I don't believe they have a clue as to what the facts are in NYC or Ferguson.

[justjim]

No, what happen was tragic but not a criminal offense.

[karostay]

Originally Posted by MikeV

Protesters are being used by some to further their agenda. I don't believe they have a clue as to what the facts are in NYC or Ferguson.

They should show their solidarity by burning all their food stamps and renounce any government hand outs

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by MikeV

Protesters are being used by some to further their agenda. I don't believe they have a clue as to what the facts are in NYC or Ferguson.

You nailed it.

There IS an agenda to insure race is an ongoing issue. These people on this board, and the folks calling for heads to roll because of no indictment, have got to know...please tell me that an American citizen knows.....grand jury looks to determine IF a crime was committed...nothing else.

The whipping everyone into a frenzy based on no indictment and race is a terrible con game played to keep alive the control that some exhibit over certain people. It is to their advantage if these people are feeling like they are picked on because of their skin color and whatever perpetuates that is what will be done.

Police make mistakes...serious mistakes. Most people realize the law needs to be adjusted or a police hearing needs to happen. That will happen in both these cases, but there must be marches to insure that blacks feel like second class citizens..that is what allows the control.

[graciegirl]

I am very afraid that unless our president does something emphatic, we are heading for a race war. When we stopped for food or comfort on our trip up and back to Ohio last week, I noticed a distinct coldness from the black people I encountered. No returned smiles. I feel like a bad atmosphere is building. I know I have no respect for the folks who looted and burned in their own neighborhood. How can this be made better? Hatred breeds hatred.

BUT... people cannot be allowed to break laws because we don't want to hurt their feelings.

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I am very afraid that unless our president does something emphatic, we are heading for a race war. When we stopped for food or comfort on our trip up and back to Ohio last week, I noticed a distinct coldness from the black people I encountered. No returned smiles. I feel like a bad atmosphere is building. I know I have no respect for the folks who looted and burned in their own neighborhood. How can this be made better? Hatred breeds hatred.

BUT... people cannot be allowed to break laws because we don't want to hurt their feelings.

You would think that after being arrested 30 times, this man would know the drill when a policeman says you are under arrest. Well, he did know the drill but chose not to conform..white or black, the drill is the same.

The other thread showed concern for police. I will say without any doubt, that because of the "leadership" that is driving this. There will be more and more unless we allow the law simply to vanish. A man, especially black, is now empowered to challenge his arrest, and thus if the police are doing their job in protecting society, you can count on more incidents.

Your fear of a race war is real. Even posters on here are whipped up hoping for "action". Nobody in Washington or otherwise is calling on people to follow the law. The leader is a criminal, who used to be an attorney until he was bounced, who has a "show" on TV that very few watch and a history..long one, of not only not paying taxes, but totally making things up to cause problems.

[gomoho]

Having watched this video many, many times I have to disagree with the grand jury decision on this one. My concern is the use of excessive force and believe a trial would have gone a long way towards answering questions.
Rubicon - if you are going to mention EG's past and that of the fellow that video taped the incident you were remiss in not also reporting the officer in question has been investigated in the past. One case was settled out of court, the other is pending. I also believe the medical examiner said he died from asphyxiation not a heart attack.

It is unfortunate this case has been turned into a racial issue rather than excessive force, but certainly understandable if you look at what has happened recently - Michael Brown, the 12 year old in the Cleveland playground and the young man in NYC coming down the stairs of his building with his family. All black - all killed by police. I don't know the answer but am praying for peace and understanding and for the race baiters mouths to be silenced with duct tape.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by gomoho

Having watched this video many, many times I have to disagree with the grand jury decision on this one. My concern is the use of excessive force and believe a trial would have gone a long way towards answering questions.
Rubicon - if you are going to mention EG's past and that of the fellow that video taped the incident you were remiss in not also reporting the officer in question has been investigated in the past. One case was settled out of court, the other is pending. I also believe the medical examiner said he died from asphyxiation not a heart attack.

It is unfortunate this case has been turned into a racial issue rather than excessive force, but certainly understandable if you look at what has happened recently - Michael Brown, the 12 year old in the Cleveland playground and the young man in NYC coming down the stairs of his building with his family. All black - all killed by police. I don't know the answer but am praying for peace and understanding and for the race baiters mouths to be silenced with duct tape.

I respect your opinions, Gomoho.

BUT... I know that you cannot speak if your airway is blocked. I don't know what I would do, if I was a police officer and a man was saying he was not wanting to be arrested and he was bigger and taller than me.

You can't just not arrest him. I do not think that anyone intended to kill the man. I believe this with all of my heart. I think any person resisting arrest who has a record would be a real challenge. You aren't thinking, this poor guy, he is just scared. You know HE knows the drill.

I know he would probably be alive today if he put his hands behind his back and then had an attack of whatever and they could give him medical treatment, if that is what happened..

I am very upset to hear black celebrities say that they teach their kids to call them if they are arrested and to not go easily.

My grandchildren, siblings, were driving through Cincinnati when they were teens and the police pulled them over and pulled guns on them. They had sent out whatever you call it (an all points bulletin?) to arrest someone dangerous and had incorrectly changed one number of the license number on the bulletin, which made the number our granddaughters license number., My grandson was looking in the glove box for the registration and they pulled him out and flung him against the car. When they showed them their drivers license and school I.D. the police realized right away they has made a mistake. The told the children's parents to have the license plate changed and they did the next day.

I know they thought he was looking for a gun in the glovebox.

It was a good and scary lesson for them to learn. One we all learned. My son in law was annoyed since he thought it was their mistake that they should have paid to have the license changed, but ....well...you just do what you have to do.

[gomoho]

Gracie - I hear you and fully agree if he had followed the officer's rules none of this would have happened. I believe when he was saying "I can't breathe" he was trying to communicate his distress and unfortunately died as a result of that distress. It's simply awful to watch that tape and see a man die because police officers were smashing him in the ground. My concern is that particular officer also has a history and why they weren't able to talk him down. He wasn't getting aggressive or threatening - he didn't want to be touched and if calmer minds had prevailed someone could have reminded him he knows the drill and this is the way it has to go. Would he have complied??? I don't know, but I would have like to at least have seen an attempt to de-escalate the situation.

[shcisamax]

xxx

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

Hmmmn. My opinion is Ferguson was justified. I think Eric Garner was not. He was selling cigarettes. Not what I would call a violent crime. He has been arrested 30 times for cigarettes. Ridiculous. Do you have anything else that might be more pressing in the world of crime besides arresting someone for selling cigarettes? Are you kidding me? Did you really need to have five guys tackling him and, I don't care how many times you deny it, it was a choke hold. As for the 12 year old boy in Cleveland, sheesh, he should still be alive today without a doubt.

As far as the way police handle themselves, I no longer feel I trust them because I personally know too many stories of heavy handedness and excessive force.

One of my neighbors recently mentioned that there have been lots of returning vets with PTSD enlisting in police force. If that is true, that may explain the barrage of overly forceful behavior. But police are not as I remember them growing up for sure.

Then just forget about laws because the small ones are useless anyhow?????

I don't see it that way. AND I would trust a black officer or an Asian officer or a retired vet or a returning vet in exactly the same way. I don't think there is now more violent police officers, I think there are now more violent perps. If they wanted to arrest me I would not be mad at THEM. I would think I had done something awfully wrong.

I have NOT lost respect for law enforcement officers and hope I never live to see the time I do.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by shcisamax

Hmmmn. My opinion is Ferguson was justified. I think Eric Garner was not. He was selling cigarettes. Not what I would call a violent crime. He has been arrested 30 times for cigarettes. Ridiculous. Do you have anything else that might be more pressing in the world of crime besides arresting someone for selling cigarettes? Are you kidding me? Did you really need to have five guys tackling him and, I don't care how many times you deny it, it was a choke hold. As for the 12 year old boy in Cleveland, sheesh, he should still be alive today without a doubt.

As far as the way police handle themselves, I no longer feel I trust them because I personally know too many stories of heavy handedness and excessive force.

As for the protests, I can't stand what happened in Ferguson. What a disgrace. The protests in NYC, at least what I have seen, were respectful and peaceful and I am all for that.

One of my neighbors recently mentioned that there have been lots of returning vets with PTSD enlisting in police force. If that is true, that may explain the barrage of overly forceful behavior. But police are not as I remember them growing up for sure.

Actually Garner had committed various crimes, including assault.

He did not die at the scene from asphyxiation but later, possibly from cardiac arrest.