I hope a genuine, honest conversation can be held on this subject. I ask that those who troll, and simply do not want to engage in adult conversation just move on.

It is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.

From the Wall St Journal

"The nation’s two-decades-long crime decline may be over. Gun violence in particular is spiraling upward in cities across America. In Baltimore, the most pressing question every morning is how many people were shot the previous night. Gun violence is up more than 60% compared with this time last year, according to Baltimore police, with 32 shootings over Memorial Day weekend. May has been the most violent month the city has seen in 15 years.

In Milwaukee, homicides were up 180% by May 17 over the same period the previous year. Through April, shootings in St. Louis were up 39%, robberies 43%, and homicides 25%. “Crime is the worst I’ve ever seen it,” said St. Louis Alderman Joe Vacarro at a May 7 City Hall hearing.

Murders in Atlanta were up 32% as of mid-May. Shootings in Chicago had increased 24% and homicides 17%. Shootings and other violent felonies in Los Angeles had spiked by 25%; in New York, murder was up nearly 13%, and gun violence 7%.

Those citywide statistics from law enforcement officials mask even more startling neighborhood-level increases. Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year; in a South Central Los Angeles police division, shooting victims are up 100%.

By contrast, the first six months of 2014 continued a 20-year pattern of growing public safety. Violent crime in the first half of last year dropped 4.6% nationally and property crime was down 7.5%. Though comparable national figures for the first half of 2015 won’t be available for another year, the January through June 2014 crime decline is unlikely to be repeated."

The New Nationwide Crime Wave - WSJ

This follows and introduces the "meat" of the article.

"The most plausible explanation of the current surge in lawlessness is the intense agitation against American police departments over the past nine months"

I am hoping anyone who is interested reads this article.

I do not see this as a political debate, or want it to be. To set a frameworks for discussion, allow me to ask opinions......

1. From where should the leadership come on this issue ? Is it state, federal, or each community by itself ?

2. What part has the media played in clarifying or distorting the real issue ?

3. Is this issue really racial or more economic ?

4. How do you see this issue being resolved ?

This article is tilted to the police side of the problem, but the more I read about what is going on, I blame the media mostly. They, the media, have chances to lead and this is a great example. It is NOT their job, I know, but seems to me they play each and every situation for ratings and do not develop the entire story. I also think the politics of this are stupid. Crime is not right or left.

I also think that both sides or all sides need to look past the color of ones skin when looking at this. There are bad police, both black and white...THAT STATEMENT CAN APPLY TO ANY OCCUPATION. Trying to read minds is a very dangerous thing to do in any situation, and in this particular situation downright dangerous.

To me this issue is vital. We are a country of laws, and if some ignore that fact we are doomed.

I hope all treat this subject in a serious way, and if my presentation is twisted, I am sorry. I just think our country needs to have this conversation. Every time, we seem to split between political parties and that just sucks. Republicans do not want blacks treated differently, and democrats want the law enforced.

Thanks in advance for trying to understand and keeping this at a level higher than many threads.

I am hoping that simply honing in on the four questions I ask might keep us from going off the track.

Although the crime you speak to is serious I believe much more damage is being done to this country by non-violent fraud and white collar crime. Almost all crime is driven by America's every growing appetite for "something for nothing". With inner city crime the perpertrators are using physical force and violence as those are the skill set they have to get part of this "something for nothing". Their crimes are no worse, in my view not as bad, as the doctor who overcharges Medicare but the two are handled very differently. They should share a cell.

Originally Posted by Guest

Although the crime you speak to is serious I believe much more damage is being done to this country by non-violent fraud and white collar crime. Almost all crime is driven by America's every growing appetite for "something for nothing". With inner city crime the perpertrators are using physical force and violence as those are the skill set they have to get part of this "something for nothing". Their crimes are no worse, in my view not as bad, as the doctor who overcharges Medicare but the two are handled very differently. They should share a cell.

Or the hospital consortium who is fined over a billion dollars for Medicare fraud and their CEO gets elected governor of Florida.

Originally Posted by Guest

Or the hospital consortium who is fined over a billion dollars for Medicare fraud and their CEO gets elected governor of Florida.

This poster brings this subject up chronicly

The trolls must be running out of material.

The thread is about policing, IF you read anything, but that is not what you do...you troll, wait for an opportunity to slam and then attack.

Cronies to follow

Originally Posted by Guest

This poster brings this subject up chronicly

The trolls must be running out of material.

The thread is about policing, IF you read anything, but that is not what you do...you troll, wait for an opportunity to slam and then attack.

Cronies to follow

The Gang of Two is just waiting to jump on anything that dies not agree with them. Grumpy old men with nothing to say. Get a life.

Originally Posted by Guest

The Gang of Two is just waiting to jump on anything that dies not agree with them. Grumpy old men with nothing to say. Get a life.

Many of the trolls are here ow.

All are welcome to post on any thread subject sans smart cracks, but choose not to. A troll is a troll is a troll.

Originally Posted by Guest

The Gang of Two is just waiting to jump on anything that dies not agree with them. Grumpy old men with nothing to say. Get a life.

Has nothing to do with agreeing or not. Most of the trolls say nothing to any subject; just smart cracks and then attack whomever calls them on it.

Originally Posted by Guest

Has nothing to do with agreeing or not. Most of the trolls say nothing to any subject; just smart cracks and then attack whomever calls them on it.

...and you are different in what way? It seems that you are the one trolling just looking for viewpoints against yours.

Originally Posted by Guest

...and you are different in what way? It seems that you are the one trolling just looking for viewpoints against yours.

Hard to do with the guest moniker, but challenge you to find ONE post where anyone went after the trolls that were not a reaction to a trolling post ?

Conversely, can you find ONE post from the troll group that either was on thread or better yet that did not contain some smart aleck crack ?

A post disagreeing with a thought of mine is welcoming to me, BUT on the other hand, a post full of simple wisecracks or demeaning language just stops the conversation.

Not sure who you are, nor is it important, but these trolls are NOT NEW POSTERS. Anytime they post to the subject, and skip wise cracks they get responses. Problem is they do not care about discussions. They are the real definition of troll.

In my opinion it starts at the local level with supporting effort from above, County, state, federal, as needed.

The major element of effectiveness is enforcement and prosecution of those proven guilty.

The examples I have used befor:

School zone speed limits; just compare the difference to those that are not manned by law enforcement.

Other speed zones; the small town just north of TV on 301 (I do not recall the name) they have signs announcing strict enforcement and as many can attest....they mean what they say. Go over the spelimit and you KNOW you will be stopped.

Simple but effective examples of how law enforcement can and does affect behavior of the citizens.

Does the same apply to other than moving violation crimes. I personally believe it does. Having personallly attended several community sponsored educational opportunities over the years the most memorable one was where the sherrif advised us what happens when criminals have no respect or fear of the law. The worst situations are where there is no fear by the criminal element.

The complicating variables are politics, race and special interest groups...especially in a community the law enforcement for one reason or another is eroded or watered down.

It is very eveident right now in Balitmore, Chicago and NYC. Felonious crimes are up significantly. The law enforcement has been emasculated to the point where the enforcers are treated with a more severe raection than the criminals.

Enforcement....enforcement.....enforcement.....and yes....a healthy FEAR of the law. If the activists don't like the sound of that....well OK your minority vote is acknowledged.

Let us all support our law enforcement and not follow the lemmings who prefer to shine the light on the 1% isloated incidents.

Yes I would support an additional funding of the police force at the local level.....as long as they are doing what it is we law abiding citizens, the majority that is, want!

Originally Posted by Guest

In my opinion it starts at the local level with supporting effort from above, County, state, federal, as needed.

The major element of effectiveness is enforcement and prosecution of those proven guilty.

The examples I have used befor:

School zone speed limits; just compare the difference to those that are not manned by law enforcement.

Other speed zones; the small town just north of TV on 301 (I do not recall the name) they have signs announcing strict enforcement and as many can attest....they mean what they say. Go over the spelimit and you KNOW you will be stopped.

Simple but effective examples of how law enforcement can and does affect behavior of the citizens.

Does the same apply to other than moving violation crimes. I personally believe it does. Having personallly attended several community sponsored educational opportunities over the years the most memorable one was where the sherrif advised us what happens when criminals have no respect or fear of the law. The worst situations are where there is no fear by the criminal element.

The complicating variables are politics, race and special interest groups...especially in a community the law enforcement for one reason or another is eroded or watered down.

It is very eveident right now in Balitmore, Chicago and NYC. Felonious crimes are up significantly. The law enforcement has been emasculated to the point where the enforcers are treated with a more severe raection than the criminals.

Enforcement....enforcement.....enforcement.....and yes....a healthy FEAR of the law. If the activists don't like the sound of that....well OK your minority vote is acknowledged.

Let us all support our law enforcement and not follow the lemmings who prefer to shine the light on the 1% isloated incidents.

Yes I would support an additional funding of the police force at the local level.....as long as they are doing what it is we law abiding citizens, the majority that is, want!

Great well thought out post.

I would like, but understand the problems, to see respect replace fear of the law.

It is interesting,and I concur,that you feel it should begin locally. Every local authority has their own situations, demographics, etc and that is where I also think it should begin.

I also think the media is playing a far to important role in framing this situation.

I would like to bring the following to the table. Crime has increased because of the breakdown of the family, no 1. Also the influx of illegals remember Raul gomez who murdered detective young? How about Diego pillco who hung an actress on her shower rod? Alfredo Gonzalez who raped a newlywed? How about the americans killed each year by illegals driving drunk? When is the last time the NY Times reported on crime committed by illegals? Gangs entering the U.S.? The law prohibits officers from initiating police action where the objective is to discover the alien status of a person the police were told to stand down in Baltimore and we wonder why crime? Why not when the leader of the country continues to do nothing?