As I sit and reflect on this July 4th weekend I think about how we are losing our right to "free speech" in our country . for ex just this past week Trump made a comment some Americans agreed with and others did not. But that's irrelevant. The truth is we are losing our Freedoms. If your speech happens to threaten the pc in our country, you are going to be bound, gagged, ridiculed and persecuted. Is this really America any longer? Are we willing to sit back and lose it all? Our country is changing as we become less tolerant of each others opinions but more complacent while our enemy advances. America I hate losing you. I loved the America we grew up in. I will pray tonight that we are not attacked tomorrow and I will pray for our country as so many have no idea what Independence day even means

Originally Posted by Guest

As I sit and reflect on this July 4th weekend I think about how we are losing our right to "free speech" in our country . for ex just this past week Trump made a comment some Americans agreed with and others did not. But that's irrelevant. The truth is we are losing our Freedoms. If your speech happens to threaten the pc in our country, you are going to be bound, gagged, ridiculed and persecuted. Is this really America any longer? Are we willing to sit back and lose it all? Our country is changing as we become less tolerant of each others opinions but more complacent while our enemy advances. America I hate losing you. I loved the America we grew up in. I will pray tonight that we are not attacked tomorrow and I will pray for our country as so many have no idea what Independence day even means

Good post and spot on.

Had some discussions on this very subject last week.

I know the liberals feel picked on when you say this, but they alone have allowed the practice of attacking anyone, and in any way, who says something contrary to their agenda.

People ask for a conversation on race, but I am afraid that is impossible in today's world. If you say something that is not in TOTAL agreement with the liberal side of things, you can be assured that you will be labeled a racist.

Express a fear of radical Islam, and you get a label.

Express your disagreement with gay marriage and you will get a label

It goes on, but in addition to the words, if you make a statement on race, not only will you be labeled, you potentially face actions.

We have seen how actions accompany the words regarding gay marriage or Muslim activity.

Nothing inside me has hate for blacks, immigrants, Hispanic or gays,BUT should I express any concern about any of those issues, I stand to be condemned or punished if possible.

And that condemnation comes from those who express their sensitivity to ALL. That ALL does not include anyone who may have a differing opinion.

Free speech is being killed slowly and surely. Through history we have received warnings about the freedoms that will be attacked, but we are now so tied up in our own political "stuff", the country has become second to political victory.

Free speech does not mean speech with no repercussions. Trump, and you, may say whatever you wish with some very rare exceptions, and the government may not interfere with your speech. However your community may reject your speech as offensive, your family may leave you, your employer may fire you. Understand? You are free to speak, just like the Nazis were free to march in Skokie. And the ACLU will fully defend your right to free speech as they did for the Nazis. Trump's choice to uniformly label Mexican immigrants as rapists etc. has had consequences for him, but his freedom to speak has not been denied. As a matter of fact his position as a Republican candidate for POTUS has greatly amplified his speech and his multiple subsequent opportunities to explain his speech.

Originally Posted by Guest

Free speech does not mean speech with no repercussions. Trump, and you, may say whatever you wish with some very rare exceptions, and the government may not interfere with your speech. However your community may reject your speech as offensive, your family may leave you, your employer may fire you. Understand? You are free to speak, just like the Nazis were free to march in Skokie. And the ACLU will fully defend your right to free speech as they did for the Nazis. Trump's choice to uniformly label Mexican immigrants as rapists etc. has had consequences for him, but his freedom to speak has not been denied. As a matter of fact his position as a Republican candidate for POTUS has greatly amplified his speech and his multiple subsequent opportunities to explain his speech.

Please, READ about the groups spearheading the anti Trump actions. Move on alone is spending money and time to do wahtever they can do, and that is just one..just one..of the left wing groups who are now in full battle gear on this.

THAT is not free speech.

I disagree with Trump on almost everything, but organized, well financed groups are behind this. NBC, etc are not acting alone.

And you have not mentioned what the thread was more about....INDIVIDUAL rights to free speech

Originally Posted by Guest

Free speech does not mean speech with no repercussions. Trump, and you, may say whatever you wish with some very rare exceptions, and the government may not interfere with your speech. However your community may reject your speech as offensive, your family may leave you, your employer may fire you. Understand? You are free to speak, just like the Nazis were free to march in Skokie. And the ACLU will fully defend your right to free speech as they did for the Nazis. Trump's choice to uniformly label Mexican immigrants as rapists etc. has had consequences for him, but his freedom to speak has not been denied. As a matter of fact his position as a Republican candidate for POTUS has greatly amplified his speech and his multiple subsequent opportunities to explain his speech.

This is not what he said. Did you hear it in full context? If no did you read the full transcript? If no then you are merely parroting what the media and the party line wants it's followers, supporters and lemmings to profess.

I am not for Trump because there are better candidates.

At least I can say that. The democrats have no choice but to accept what is being forced upon them. How can any dem pick on any candidate and point out their negatives, real or perceived and then go back and support the likes of Clinton..

I guess you have no choice but to go with what has been ordained FOR YOU....poor character.....incompetent....crooked....liar.....c riminal participation....dishonest.....self centered........BUT SHE IS OK???????

Originally Posted by Guest

Free speech does not mean speech with no repercussions. Trump, and you, may say whatever you wish with some very rare exceptions, and the government may not interfere with your speech. However your community may reject your speech as offensive, your family may leave you, your employer may fire you. Understand? You are free to speak, just like the Nazis were free to march in Skokie. And the ACLU will fully defend your right to free speech as they did for the Nazis. Trump's choice to uniformly label Mexican immigrants as rapists etc. has had consequences for him, but his freedom to speak has not been denied. As a matter of fact his position as a Republican candidate for POTUS has greatly amplified his speech and his multiple subsequent opportunities to explain his speech.

You are right about the repercussions that may go along with free speech, but my heart goes out today for the young couple who are being persecuted above and beyond for their beliefs -

Sweet Cakes final order: Gresham bakery must pay $135,000 for denying service to same-sex couple | OregonLive.com

I say above and beyond because it would have been repercussion enough that their business might suffer because of their personal decision. It was definitely a risk that they took by denying the same sex couple their wedding cake. But for the same sex couple to take them to court and be awarded $135,000, essentially ruining the young couple's livelihood, speaks volumes to me about the characters of the same sex couple. It's not as if they could not purchase a wedding cake elsewhere, and it certainly did not entail a life or death situation. For anyone, to take it to this extreme to ruin a family, to me is just plain evil!

Originally Posted by Guest

You are right about the repercussions that may go along with free speech, but my heart goes out today for the young couple who are being persecuted above and beyond for their beliefs -

Sweet Cakes final order: Gresham bakery must pay $135,000 for denying service to same-sex couple | OregonLive.com

I say above and beyond because it would have been repercussion enough that their business might suffer because of their personal decision. It was definitely a risk that they took by denying the same sex couple their wedding cake. But for the same sex couple to take them to court and be awarded $135,000, essentially ruining the young couple's livelihood, speaks volumes to me about the characters of the same sex couple. It's not as if they could not purchase a wedding cake elsewhere, and it certainly did not entail a life or death situation. For anyone, to take it to this extreme to ruin a family, to me is just plain evil!

Evil? To expect a business to follow the law? And to pay the consequences if they don't? It is illegal in Oregon to deny service to someone because of their sexual preferences. If you don't want to sell cakes to everyone - don't go into the cake selling business. Why in the world would you expect the customers to go to a different baker?

in a similar case the male couple had never been denied service..in fact they had been good customers for seven years until the marriage issue came up...the bakers are being forced to participate in a "celebration" that they believe is contrary to their faith...i thought we had protections for religious liberty in this country? there is a difference between selling brownies and participating in a wedding.

Originally Posted by Guest

Evil? To expect a business to follow the law? And to pay the consequences if they don't? It is illegal in Oregon to deny service to someone because of their sexual preferences. If you don't want to sell cakes to everyone - don't go into the cake selling business. Why in the world would you expect the customers to go to a different baker?

I have many mixed emotions on this. First, please note that this thread has seriously strayed from Trumps comments to another gay rights topic.

To this specific post.

1. I said with all the police shootings and subsequent riots that occurred, obeying the law would have kept this from happening. I think the penalty paid is severe and is another case of activist movement. But the law is the law.

To me, the activist involvement in both the Trump situation and the wedding cake situation are the thing that troubles me.

Allowing our existing laws to just work normally would resolve both.

Had the gay couple filed a complaint they would have won, and a fine would need to be payed, BUT the vandalism and subsequent ruination of the business would be averted. That damage done by political activists.

The Trump thing to me is the same. All those companies "cutting ties" did so under extreme extreme pressure from activists groups. If he said it, and no activists, he would pay the price politically.

I said this in another thread that these political activists now control it all. Our government is not about governing but dealing with social issues that promise voting blocs.

Originally Posted by Guest

in a similar case the male couple had never been denied service..in fact they had been good customers for seven years until the marriage issue came up...the bakers are being forced to participate in a "celebration" that they believe is contrary to their faith...i thought we had protections for religious liberty in this country? there is a difference between selling brownies and participating in a wedding.

Your point is well taken, and I agree however the law is the law.....this is from the link.

"Though the Oregon Equality Act of 2007 includes an exemption for religious organizations and schools, it does not permit private business owners to deny service and discriminate against potential customers, BOLI said."

That's the law. We need to respect that

Free speech? I posted on the Hillary vs who? thread. I was attacked personally. I didn't respond personally to this post, but I attacked the items he brought up in his post. My two responses haven't seen the light of day. I am going to give the Talk of the Villages some time to read the posts. Maybe they are in limbo. However, if they are not posted here, we will talk about free speech and censorship in the village to include the Daily Sun.

I also sent them an email. We will see what happens.

Originally Posted by Guest

in a similar case the male couple had never been denied service..in fact they had been good customers for seven years until the marriage issue came up...the bakers are being forced to participate in a "celebration" that they believe is contrary to their faith...i thought we had protections for religious liberty in this country? there is a difference between selling brownies and participating in a wedding.

Not sure I'm following you, but you are correct the male couple were not denied service - until they were denied service when the marriage issue came up. The bakers are not being forced to participate in a celebration. They are merely baking a cake. What happens after the cake leaves their shop really isn't any of their business. If I buy some candy and use it lure a little girl into the back of my van, the candy seller is not participating in pedophilia.

Originally Posted by Guest

Free speech? I posted on the Hillary vs who? thread. I was attacked personally. I didn't respond personally to this post, but I attacked the items he brought up in his post. My two responses haven't seen the light of day. I am going to give the Talk of the Villages some time to read the posts. Maybe they are in limbo. However, if they are not posted here, we will talk about free speech and censorship in the village to include the Daily Sun.

I also sent them an email. We will see what happens.

This post does not make much sense.

Are you saying that you actually posted two responses and they were deleted ? Are you sure that you hit "submit reply" ?

If that happened, it would be a first. I know of no post on this political forum that has been edited, although many need to be.

Originally Posted by Guest

Evil? To expect a business to follow the law? And to pay the consequences if they don't? It is illegal in Oregon to deny service to someone because of their sexual preferences. If you don't want to sell cakes to everyone - don't go into the cake selling business. Why in the world would you expect the customers to go to a different baker?

I stand by my statement. I personally could never live with myself if I ruined a family's livelihood over something so insignificant as a wedding cake - sorry, but bakers are a dime a dozen, and again I repeat, we are not dealing with a life or death situation here. Yes, I think that what this couple did to go out of their way to ruin a family was evil!

To the OP, I'm sorry, I believe I was the poster who caused this thread to stray.

Originally Posted by Guest

Please, READ about the groups spearheading the anti Trump actions. Move on alone is spending money and time to do wahtever they can do, and that is just one..just one..of the left wing groups who are now in full battle gear on this.

THAT is not free speech.

I disagree with Trump on almost everything, but organized, well financed groups are behind this. NBC, etc are not acting alone.

And you have not mentioned what the thread was more about....INDIVIDUAL rights to free speech

Check out what Jeb Bush has to say about Trump, or Marco Rubio, or Mike Huckabee, or Rick Perry, or Mitt Romney. Hardly left wing groups.