[samhass]

I have found this article several times and each time I read it I get infuriated and a little frightened.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123051100709638419.html

[TallerTrees]

Sam:

Just curious -- I can understand infuriated (to a lesser degree however), but why are you frightened?

[graciegirl]

We have been raised to believe in the omipotence of the United States. It is frightening to even READ of this wonderful country ever ending.

[samhass]

Tall, doesn't this remind you of the old days and the cold war? The
psychological warfare of the old days screams from that paper. Are we returning to the cold war or worse? Does the USA still have what it takes to be a superpower? Have we become undone by our greed and sense of entitlement?

[ConeyIsBabe]

THANKS for the heads-up on this issue. I read the article, well most of it; IMHO his prediction would make a very good sci-fi movie!!

The prediction does not scare me but perhaps that's because I'm clueless when it comes to politics/business/world trade/economics.

Food for thought, though

[TallerTrees]

Originally Posted by samhass

Tall, doesn't this remind you of the old days and the cold war? The
psychological warfare of the old days screams from that paper. Are we returning to the cold war or worse? Does the USA still have what it takes to be a superpower? Have we become undone by our greed and sense of entitlement?

Yes to all of those Sam. The US can stay a superpower, but now from weakness. Peace through strength. Look at Israel -- the more land they gave to Palestians, the more rockets and no peace. Now that they are bombing Hamas to kingdom come, look at the world coming out and telling them to stop. Ridiculous.

I don't like Obama's Clintonistas. We've been there done that. I love this country, but if our corrupt leadership and ignorant citizens keep up this pace, I'm prepared to meet my maker.

[Belle]

I do believe we are in for a drastic change in our country, because of the greed and dishonesty among the higher powers in our government and businesses. We don't seem to be united in anything anymore and so divided that we don't know what this country really stands for. I love this country and think it's the best on this earth. I sincerely hope that things can turn around before it's too late. We, the people, are the only ones who can change things. We have to let our voice be heard.

[joannej]

U.S. troops are already being trained for civil unrest in the U.S. if an uprising takes place because of the economy. Surprised? Think about it. If one has no job, no home, no food, no water, and none of the necessities an individual works hard to achieve, there will be discontentment, perhaps in forms we never dreamed of. One only has to look at the past to learn for the future: Poland, E/Germany, Russia, and many other governments/civilizations that changed because people's basic needs were not met. We are not immune to change in the U.S. We can only hope and pray that our new President will be able to change the direction we were headed to in the past, and save our nation from greed for future generations. Now is the time to look beyond our pettiness and concentrate on what we can do individually to affect a better outcome for our country. Per the article, many other countries are looking at us in ways that should shock us out of our apathy. (NIMBY)

[SteveZ]

Originally Posted by joannej

U.S. troops are already being trained for civil unrest in the U.S. if an uprising takes place because of the economy. Surprised? Think about it. If one has no job, no home, no food, no water, and none of the necessities an individual works hard to achieve, there will be discontentment, perhaps in forms we never dreamed of. One only has to look at the past to learn for the future: Poland, E/Germany, Russia, and many other governments/civilizations that changed because people's basic needs were not met. We are not immune to change in the U.S. We can only hope and pray that our new President will be able to change the direction we were headed to in the past, and save our nation from greed for future generations. Now is the time to look beyond our pettiness and concentrate on what we can do individually to affect a better outcome for our country. Per the article, many other countries are looking at us in ways that should shock us out of our apathy. (NIMBY)

I beg to differ. US troops today receive considerably more training than ever before on urban warfare and dealing with civil unrest - but not for action on US territory. The authorities and protections which severely restrict what US troops, even the National Guard, are legion, and they prescribe several legal steps which must be accomplished before any US troops can be used for a domestic incident, how the funding will be disbursed because troop commitments cost a lot of money and payment must be made by either the State(s) or the feds under tight scrutiny, and specifically what is to be done must be articulated in very specific form.

The U.S. Northern Command is responsible for when troops are used domestically, and NORTHCOM doesn't do anything without tremendous coordination with the Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Justice.

We're just not that bad off....

[joannej]

Steve Z,

Check out this article: http://bbvm.wordpress.com/2008/12/03...tic-security”/

There are other articles about this subject on the web (just Goggle the subject matter).

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by joannej

Steve Z,

Check out this article: http://bbvm.wordpress.com/2008/12/03...tic-security”/

There are other articles about this subject on the web (just Goggle the subject matter).

Thank you, joannej, for posting this link. I was aware of some of the content but I had never seen it so clearly spelled out. And this in a solid, daily newspaper, not some over-the-edge online blog.

I am struck by the potential meaning of the following quote from a previous post: "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." We need to give some thought to who it is who potentially 'would do us harm.' Although it might be, is it necessarily the obvious? When the Murrah Building in Oklahoma City was bombed, many immediately jumped to the conclusion that somehow Islamic terrorists were responsible. Instead, it turned to be good old American, former U.S. Army, Timothy McVeigh, who got off easy via capital punishment instead of rotting in jail and counting his hours and days for the rest of his life.

What will motivate contemporary Americans to turn around from the apathy that's so prevalent today? Every election we hear cries of 'Throw the bums out of office!' and we proceed to reelect the incumbents. I've often said (granted a little cynically) that Americans would take to the streets if somehow television could be turned off nationwide for 72 hours, but somehow I don't think this is what is in mind relating to the article whose link joannej posted....

[SteveZ]

Originally Posted by joannej

Steve Z,

Check out this article: http://bbvm.wordpress.com/2008/12/03...tic-security”/

There are other articles about this subject on the web (just Goggle the subject matter).

Am familiar with the articles, the law involved, and the "domestic security" structure and response plans. Suffice to say that it's my business to understand this stuff.

NORTHCOM is not in the "military takeover of domestic security" business. The federal response to any emergency situation is formatted according to an orchestrated script based on situations and civilian authority. A lot of information on the Emergency Response System - how it's organized, who does what and when - is available at www.FEMA.gov within its "training" pages and is accessible by everyone.

To many who watch CNN, the federal response to anything seems disjointed, but that's mainly due to the reporters themselves not understanding (or ignoring) the process, the federal support hierarchies, what the Principal Federal Official (PFO) does, how a Common Operating Picture is maintained, how the various federal operations centers coordinate the support, and the fact that at all ttimes the Department of Justice (usually through the FBI) provides the Principal Law Enforcement Official to support the PFO in maintaining civilian control over the event.

We're just not in a "Seven Days in May" posture, and the checks and balances keep it from happening.

[Yoda]

Is it only boomers who are afraid?

I do not know anyone who is getting forclosed because they cannot pay the mortgage. Do you? I do know some who walked away from upside down mortgaes.

When the unemployment rate was 5% I did not know anyone who is unemployed, other than by choice. Now that it is 6.7%, I still don't.

Will times be different? Sure they will. I didn't have much fun in the 80's.

America as we know it will always be here. We will leave it to our kids.

Just some thoughts from a non-boomer (older)

God Bless America

[Sidney Lanier]

Originally Posted by Yoda

I do not know anyone who is getting forclosed because they cannot pay the mortgage. Do you? I do know some who walked away from upside down mortgaes.

When the unemployment rate was 5% I did not know anyone who is unemployed, other than by choice. Now that it is 6.7%, I still don't.

Yes, our home up north is in a rural area in New York State with low population density, and we know people in (so far) three homes being foreclosed. The daughter and son-in-law of close friends in New Hampshire were just foreclosed after they'd been unable to pay their mortgage for close to a year, due to loss of jobs.

We know a fair number of people (besides those in the homes being foreclosed, one of which also involves a serious illness) who are unemployed, including one of our sons. Another of our sons who works for one of the big national banks has a job that is very shaky (as well as three children and a mortgage). Ironically, our son with the most secure job is a grocery clerk. We have friends whose son in California created a business of emptying houses that have been walked away from by people who, presumably, at least for some, became unemployed and were consequently unable to pay their mortgages.

It's very easy for us relatively comfortable retired folk who drank the water, fell in love with the TV lifestyle, may or may not have 'suffered' paper losses in the stock market and 401K plans and the like, but who are living the good life to not notice what is happening in, for lack of a better phrase, 'the real world out there.' Reading The Daily Sun doesn't necessarily give us a true picture of life throughout the U.S.

In other words, yes, foreclosures in huge numbers are real, and an unemployment rate of no matter what the percentage is represents folks who are out of work. We can read/hear about 1,000 or whatever number laid off from this or that large company and it sounds like a number, but these are lives, these people have families, and even right here in TV we don't have to look further than Circuit City going into Chapter 11 and Linens & Things closing outright--and just prior to Christmas too. How insensitive or in denial can we continue to be?...

[Belle]

I agree with Sidney. My NY home is in the Hudson River Valley region that has seen a rapid growth after 9/11. However, I am hearing of more foreclosures in this area. I personally know of 2 very well educated young men who have lost their jobs. My son-in-law had to struggle to get his Masters in education so that he could have a more secure job. Now they struggle to meet their mortgage because income is lower. Most of my friends do not want to look at their 401K's. I have always been a conservative investor, so I still continue to earn on mine. I have been blest and am comfortable, but I see many around me suffering. It is time for us (who are secure) to help those who are in need. If you know of any food pantry in need of help, please let me know.