Do you still really trust Hillary. Do the you democrats still trust this administration. Remember obamacare was shoved down our throats. This will continue if Hillary gets in office or any democrat for that matter. I'll take my chances with an unknown before I would take chances with Clinton.

Originally Posted by Guest

Do you still really trust Hillary. Do the you democrats still trust this administration. Remember obamacare was shoved down our throats. This will continue if Hillary gets in office or any democrat for that matter. I'll take my chances with an unknown before I would take chances with Clinton.

I think Donald Rumsfeld has the answer to your inquiry.....


"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know."

Can't get clearer than that.

Originally Posted by Guest

Do you still really trust Hillary. Do the you democrats still trust this administration. Remember obamacare was shoved down our throats. This will continue if Hillary gets in office or any democrat for that matter. I'll take my chances with an unknown before I would take chances with Clinton.

NO-I DO NOT TRUST OR EVEN LIKE OBAMA OR HILLARY.

But, RE: OBAMACARE
Unfortunately people NEED to be forced to be responsible.
If, for example a young heathy person is injured in a car crash, will they scream help me or will they scream-I decided I did not need or want to pay for healthcare. The bill of my care, since I have no savings, will likely not ever be paid SO TAKE ME TO THE DUMP ALIVE OR DEAD.

Have you wondered why if you get an aspirin worth about a nickle the hospital will bill you about $15 for it? You are paying for all the people who don't pay PLUS LEGAL EXPENSES FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL SUE THEM.

We pay roughly twice as much as other industrialized countries. Our life expectancy is about the same. So we pay twice as much for the same result. Obama told us that computer record keeping would pay for obamacare.
HUH-to deal with insurance companies of government plans EVERY DOCTOR HAS TO HAVE COMPUTER RECORDS.
Besides healthcare what else do we buy where the PRICE is not posted. Hell where you will get a dirty look if you even ask what it will cost. WHY does insurance pay roughly 2/3 of what you would be billed for the same service if you decided to SELF INSURE?

Originally Posted by Guest

NO-I DO NOT TRUST OR EVEN LIKE OBAMA OR HILLARY.

But, RE: OBAMACARE
Unfortunately people NEED to be forced to be responsible.
If, for example a young heathy person is injured in a car crash, will they scream help me or will they scream-I decided I did not need or want to pay for healthcare. The bill of my care, since I have no savings, will likely not ever be paid SO TAKE ME TO THE DUMP ALIVE OR DEAD.

Have you wondered why if you get an aspirin worth about a nickle the hospital will bill you about $15 for it? You are paying for all the people who don't pay PLUS LEGAL EXPENSES FOR PEOPLE WHO WILL SUE THEM.

We pay roughly twice as much as other industrialized countries. Our life expectancy is about the same. So we pay twice as much for the same result. Obama told us that computer record keeping would pay for obamacare.
HUH-to deal with insurance companies of government plans EVERY DOCTOR HAS TO HAVE COMPUTER RECORDS.
Besides healthcare what else do we buy where the PRICE is not posted. Hell where you will get a dirty look if you even ask what it will cost. WHY does insurance pay roughly 2/3 of what you would be billed for the same service if you decided to SELF INSURE?

Everybody knows that if you tell the hospital that you wish to pay in cash, they will give you a better deal than if they bill the insurance. And most of your billing to your insurance is based on how much Medicare says that service is worth.

And I do not buy the idea that everyone should be mandated by law to pay for something that they do not need. With car insurance, it is different. You do not have to drive, and if you do then you are required to insure your vehicle. It is unconstitutional for the gov to mandate that you pay for insurance so they get by that by making you pay a penalty if you refuse. The wealthy do not wish to pay for insurance that they will not use. They want five star service and will pay for it. Insurance will not pay for such service, so the wealthy are being made to pay either for insurance or a penalty. And there are still millions of people that can't even afford insurance and can't get medicaid. So, Obamacare was rushed/pushed through without any input from the other side and now we have a disaster that hasn't even hit us the hardest yet. Wait until next year, when it really hits us.

Originally Posted by Guest

Everybody knows that if you tell the hospital that you wish to pay in cash, they will give you a better deal than if they bill the insurance. And most of your billing to your insurance is based on how much Medicare says that service is worth.

And I do not buy the idea that everyone should be mandated by law to pay for something that they do not need. With car insurance, it is different. You do not have to drive, and if you do then you are required to insure your vehicle. It is unconstitutional for the gov to mandate that you pay for insurance so they get by that by making you pay a penalty if you refuse. The wealthy do not wish to pay for insurance that they will not use. They want five star service and will pay for it. Insurance will not pay for such service, so the wealthy are being made to pay either for insurance or a penalty. And there are still millions of people that can't even afford insurance and can't get medicaid. So, Obamacare was rushed/pushed through without any input from the other side and now we have a disaster that hasn't even hit us the hardest yet. Wait until next year, when it really hits us.

Really? How many people can walk to work? How is the bus service in most small towns? I disagree, I think driving is necessary.

Originally Posted by Guest

Really? How many people can walk to work? How is the bus service in most small towns? I disagree, I think driving is necessary.

That's your opinion, not a fact. I know of many people that do not drive, do not have a license to drive, do not own a car and do not have insurance. They are not penalized for not having automobile insurance. How many thousands of people in the villages do not drive? They have golf carts but do not need a drivers license to operate one. There are always options; buses, taxis, friends, etc.

Originally Posted by Guest

That's your opinion, not a fact. I know of many people that do not drive, do not have a license to drive, do not own a car and do not have insurance. They are not penalized for not having automobile insurance. How many thousands of people in the villages do not drive? They have golf carts but do not need a drivers license to operate one. There are always options; buses, taxis, friends, etc.

And what about the OTHER 200 MILLION people who DO have to drive to get just about ANYWHERE? To a job, to the store, to school...

I see, YOU and your friends don't need it, so nobody else does either? You're in a bubble within the bubble...

Originally Posted by Guest

Everybody knows that if you tell the hospital that you wish to pay in cash, they will give you a better deal than if they bill the insurance. And most of your billing to your insurance is based on how much Medicare says that service is worth.

And I do not buy the idea that everyone should be mandated by law to pay for something that they do not need. With car insurance, it is different. You do not have to drive, and if you do then you are required to insure your vehicle. It is unconstitutional for the gov to mandate that you pay for insurance so they get by that by making you pay a penalty if you refuse. The wealthy do not wish to pay for insurance that they will not use. They want five star service and will pay for it. Insurance will not pay for such service, so the wealthy are being made to pay either for insurance or a penalty. And there are still millions of people that can't even afford insurance and can't get medicaid. So, Obamacare was rushed/pushed through without any input from the other side and now we have a disaster that hasn't even hit us the hardest yet. Wait until next year, when it really hits us.

Well with your kind of logic, I as a single person with no children, should not have to pay school taxes. Of course that is foolish thinking. We live in a democracy and we pay for things that improve the common good. The voters elected President Obama on his mandate to provide healthcare for the country. Of course the Republicans fought it every step of the way and we ended up with a compromise.

Evaluation grades for the affordable healthcare act have been improving each year it has been in existence. There are many more people insured now then there were in 2008 There are many new benefits included now that people did not have before such as elimination of pre-existing conditions, payments for prevention and screening and coverage for patients participating in clinical trials. This is all very good. And overall health care cost increases have slowed. But Obama care is expensive Depending on subsidies and employers premiums and deductibles. It is no surprise, we know there is no free lunch. But the bottom line is there has been notable progress in healthcare for some people, Although not everyone. That's the way democracies work - the common good.

Originally Posted by Guest

Well with your kind of logic, I as a single person with no children, should not have to pay school taxes. Of course that is foolish thinking. We live in a democracy and we pay for things that improve the common good. The voters elected President Obama on his mandate to provide healthcare for the country. Of course the Republicans fought it every step of the way and we ended up with a compromise.

Evaluation grades for the affordable healthcare act have been improving each year it has been in existence. There are many more people insured now then there were in 2008 There are many new benefits included now that people did not have before such as elimination of pre-existing conditions, payments for prevention and screening and coverage for patients participating in clinical trials. This is all very good. And overall health care cost increases have slowed. But Obama care is expensive Depending on subsidies and employers premiums and deductibles. It is no surprise, we know there is no free lunch. But the bottom line is there has been notable progress in healthcare for some people, Although not everyone. That's the way democracies work - the common good.

Why do "I" with no kids HAVE to pay for YOUR kids? The common good being if they're educated they'll be good citizens and not muggers? Otherwise, their education is THEIR good, not mine, yet I have to pay?

Otherwise, why not "pay as you play"? If you use something, you pay, if you don't, you don't. It would save MOST of us a bundle. It's the poor who benefit from all the "free" stuff taxes pay for. Don't like it, don't be poor. I'm not your daddy, I don't owe you some standard of living I think is too high.

Again, all these healthcare changes are for the poor. They don't benefit me. My costs went up. MOST peoples cost went up because more of the poor are now covered with our tax dollars. Why do I OWE someone else medical care? If you're THAT low on the totem pole, you probably won't be missed.

Your whole second paragraph is full of crap. Stop listening to what other people TELL YOU is the truth, and start finding the truth on your own.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner...it has NOTHING to do with the "common good". Stop listening to what other people tell you is the truth and find out for yourself what is true.

That is not true. The democrats had a super majority in the Senate and a majority in the House: they had the votes to pass anything they wanted. The Republicans had no say in obamacare and could not even filibuster it because of the democratic super majority in the Senate. Lobbying resulted in several cost control vehicles, such as tort reform, being excluded from obamacare. This is entirely on the democrats.

Any, by the way, we actually live in a Republic.

Originally Posted by Guest

Well with your kind of logic, I as a single person with no children, should not have to pay school taxes. Of course that is foolish thinking. We live in a democracy and we pay for things that improve the common good. The voters elected President Obama on his mandate to provide healthcare for the country. Of course the Republicans fought it every step of the way and we ended up with a compromise.

Evaluation grades for the affordable healthcare act have been improving each year it has been in existence. There are many more people insured now then there were in 2008 There are many new benefits included now that people did not have before such as elimination of pre-existing conditions, payments for prevention and screening and coverage for patients participating in clinical trials. This is all very good. And overall health care cost increases have slowed. But Obama care is expensive Depending on subsidies and employers premiums and deductibles. It is no surprise, we know there is no free lunch. But the bottom line is there has been notable progress in healthcare for some people, Although not everyone. That's the way democracies work - the common good.

Originally Posted by Guest

And what about the OTHER 200 MILLION people who DO have to drive to get just about ANYWHERE? To a job, to the store, to school...

I see, YOU and your friends don't need it, so nobody else does either? You're in a bubble within the bubble...

Why do you speak like a child? The point was that car insurance is not mandatory. We do not have to have auto insurance so that it can be cheaper for others. OBamaCare was a lie. They made you think that the only way to make insurance affordable was to make EVERYONE purchase it or pay a fine. So, how did that work out? Insurance went up at even a higher rate than ever before. Cost of service went up. Cost of deductible and co-payment went up. We had millions that lost their insurance and were forced to purchase a more expensive replacement. They lied and you liberals still believe them. Even with all the evidence to proves they lied. And you liberals wonder why we don't respect you and think you are stupid.

Originally Posted by Guest

Why do you speak like a child? The point was that car insurance is not mandatory. We do not have to have auto insurance so that it can be cheaper for others. OBamaCare was a lie. They made you think that the only way to make insurance affordable was to make EVERYONE purchase it or pay a fine. So, how did that work out? Insurance went up at even a higher rate than ever before. Cost of service went up. Cost of deductible and co-payment went up. We had millions that lost their insurance and were forced to purchase a more expensive replacement. They lied and you liberals still believe them. Even with all the evidence to proves they lied. And you liberals wonder why we don't respect you and think you are stupid.

No...the original point was someone said "you don't need to drive" like taking away someones license wouldn't affect them. I said it would because MOST people don't have public transportation readily available, most people NEED to drive. The original post I replied to said taking away a drivers license was no big deal.

We got crossed up along the way...

Originally Posted by Guest

Everybody knows that if you tell the hospital that you wish to pay in cash, they will give you a better deal than if they bill the insurance. And most of your billing to your insurance is based on how much Medicare says that service is worth.

And I do not buy the idea that everyone should be mandated by law to pay for something that they do not need. With car insurance, it is different. You do not have to drive, and if you do then you are required to insure your vehicle. It is unconstitutional for the gov to mandate that you pay for insurance so they get by that by making you pay a penalty if you refuse. The wealthy do not wish to pay for insurance that they will not use. They want five star service and will pay for it. Insurance will not pay for such service, so the wealthy are being made to pay either for insurance or a penalty. And there are still millions of people that can't even afford insurance and can't get medicaid. So, Obamacare was rushed/pushed through without any input from the other side and now we have a disaster that hasn't even hit us the hardest yet. Wait until next year, when it really hits us.

Before Obamacare insurance if you had a preexisting condition insurance companies would not insure you or charge such a rate you could not afford it. I guess you would be okay with your loved one dying, you would probably say, if you can't afford it tough.

My insurance costs went down with the ACA and I have a "Cadillac" plan. My daughter's life was saved by changes made in insurance law.

By the way, car insurance is mandatory in FL.

Originally Posted by Guest

I think Donald Rumsfeld has the answer to your inquiry.....


"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know."

Can't get clearer than that.

"It depends on what the meaning of is...is" William Jefferson Blythe (Slick Willie) Clinton