Ok this is just an observasion but. Castro promised reform to the Cuban people or rather change he was going to improve their life.We know what happened there. Hilter was also going to improve Germany and where did that end up.We are losing all control to the government. Look at the housing market are mortgage mess,personally I suspect the governing bodies helped that along. Now there are so many restrictions on mortgages that the house prices drop. The health reform will take so many freedoms away.Please pull this proposed reform up on line and resd it and then deside if you are for it .I against it contact your congressman and voice your opinion. If this bill makes it through medicare will not be safe. Social Security will not be safe. To correct this shortage to fund these programs such as health care we need jobs. Bring jobs back into the U.S. stop giving the country away,no one likes us anyway so stop giving them money stop supporting all the other countries and take care of ourselves for a change. Do you realize that should this health care make it through we will pay for all the illegals health care and they pay for nothing. Thank you for those who took the time to resd this now resd that billthere may be time to do something about it.

Originally Posted by DDoug

...We are losing all control to the government....

No we're not.

A new President can be voted in every four years; the entire House of Representatives can be replaced every two years; and one-third of the Senate can be turned over every two years.

Well more than half of the U.S. electorate believes our current government should be graded FAILED based on a large CNN poll. Based on your post, you are clearly among them. Only two things would be necessary to change the direction of government...

-- First, everyone that is registered should vote.

-- Second, VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENTS! Don't be tempted to vote for a party and don't err by believing that "your" representatives are OK, that it's all the others that create the problem. Don't vote for any of them. Vote for someone new.

It's pretty simple really. Not at all like the abhorrent examples you used in your post. The American public will have another shot at it in only a little more than a year. If we keep voting for the people already in office, we deserve what we get.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

No we're not.

A new President can be voted in every four years; the entire House of Representatives can be replaced every two years; and one-third of the Senate can be turned over every two years.

Well more than half of the U.S. electorate believes our current government should be graded FAILED based on a large CNN poll. Based on your post, you are clearly among them. Only two things would be necessary to change the direction of government...

-- First, everyone that is registered should vote.

-- Second, VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENTS! Don't be tempted to vote for a party and don't err by believing that "your" representatives are OK, that it's all the others that create the problem. Don't vote for any of them. Vote for someone new.

It's pretty simple really. Not at all like the abhorrent examples you used in your post. The American public will have another shot at it in only a little more than a year. If we keep voting for the people already in office, we deserve what we get.

VK...those are pretty sentiments however....

does the new congress under your scenario just repeal the health insurance bill that Obama WILL get...do they simply repeal all the tentacles that were attached to the simulus bill.....do they simply repeal the card check language that this President will get....and the list will go on and on.

What this president and congress are doing was entirely predictable and I recall you saying the same thing during the campaign when you announced your support for Obama...ie., if he is bad we can vote him out after 4 years....little did either of us know at that time when I was predicting doom and gloom and you were preaching sunshine that he would do this stuff as fast as he is going.

Originally Posted by DDoug

Ok this is just an observasion but. Castro promised reform to the Cuban people or rather change he was going to improve their life.We know what happened there. Hilter was also going to improve Germany and where did that end up.We are losing all control to the government. Look at the housing market are mortgage mess,personally I suspect the governing bodies helped that along. Now there are so many restrictions on mortgages that the house prices drop. The health reform will take so many freedoms away.Please pull this proposed reform up on line and resd it and then deside if you are for it .I against it contact your congressman and voice your opinion. If this bill makes it through medicare will not be safe. Social Security will not be safe. To correct this shortage to fund these programs such as health care we need jobs. Bring jobs back into the U.S. stop giving the country away,no one likes us anyway so stop giving them money stop supporting all the other countries and take care of ourselves for a change. Do you realize that should this health care make it through we will pay for all the illegals health care and they pay for nothing. Thank you for those who took the time to resd this now resd that billthere may be time to do something about it.

I concur with your sentiments completely. We need to sustain this anger until it is time to pull the trigger at the 2010 and 2012 elections. This administration and the media will try to bully us and belittle our actions ...They will do anything they can to silence us. Many hours before the townhall meeting this morning in New Hampshire, the police gave the pro Obama health care people a prime location close to the road and gave the anti-Obama people an out of sight location. They fought it and finally got the location across the street. Our government is trying to keep the protesters away from the television cameras....Yep..just like in Germany.

I don't recall reading anything about Adolph having town hall meetings.

Originally Posted by Bucco

VK...those are pretty sentiments however....

does the new congress under your scenario just repeal the health insurance bill that Obama WILL get...do they simply repeal all the tentacles that were attached to the simulus bill.....do they simply repeal the card check language that this President will get....and the list will go on and on.

What this president and congress are doing was entirely predictable and I recall you saying the same thing during the campaign when you announced your support for Obama...ie., if he is bad we can vote him out after 4 years....little did either of us know at that time when I was predicting doom and gloom and you were preaching sunshine that he would do this stuff as fast as he is going.

If a minimum of half the incumbents in the House get tossed in 2010, that will be the biggest wake-up call ever to hit elected officials.

Yes, any law can be repealed or amended. And after a brutal wake-up call, those remaining incumbents will be ultra-sensitive to their vulnerability in 2012, just as the freshmen understand they too can go as fast as they came.

No congressperson should be in office long enough to need a retirement plan.

We indeed get what we deserve. The question is, do we want better than what we have?

Originally Posted by Bucco

...I recall you saying the same thing during the campaign when you announced your support for Obama...ie., if he is bad we can vote him out after 4 years....little did either of us know at that time when I was predicting doom and gloom and you were preaching sunshine that he would do this stuff as fast as he is going.

You are absolutely correct, Bucco. You were preaching doom and gloom then...and you continue to do so now. How about some ideas on even one issue of national governance that you might suggest? You don't even have to start with reforming national healthcare. I'll admit that's a very complicated issue. But just something other than your doom and gloom, the country is turning socialist stuff.

On the issue of me preaching "sunshine", I'll use one of the techniques you so frequently use when someone challenges what you said. Give me some examples of where I "preached sunshine" during the 2008 Presidential campaign.

While I will almost certainly not vote for President Obama's re-election--following my newfound policy of not voting for incumbents--there ARE some things that I think his administration has done well.

• Let's begin with doing what he said he would while campaigning. Unlike some previous Presidents, I can't think of anything that he's done so far that he didn't say he would during the campaign. He told us what he intended to change and he's begun to do so. I hope that future candidates are as truthful.
• He's done a great job of improving the U.S. reputation and ability to conduct diplomacy around the world. Even the 300,000 respondents to the recent CNN poll rated him B+ in this area, while rating his administration F overall.
• He IS doing a competent job as commander-in-chief. He has not hesitated to make the tough military decisions. I particularly like his lack of hesitancy to chase alQuaeda wherever they are, even into Pakistan, using our drone and cruise missle capabilities.
• Say what you will about the stimulus and fiscal policy--the economy seems to have bottomed out from the deepest recession since 1930. It wouldn't have happened without action on the part of the government.

If you want to count those things as "sunshine" on my part, feel free. But I still will probably not vote for his re-election.

Now, give me some examples of the "sunshine" I preached. I voted for Barack Obama because I thought the Obama-Biden ticket was better than the McCain-Palin ticket. There was more unknown about what to expect from a President Obama and I said so. I also said, as pointed out, that if we didn't like how he performed during his first term, we could elect another President. How is that "sunshine"?

By the way, I for one am willing to accept that you've preached doom and gloom and what to expect from a socialist-activist Barack Obama if he was elected. You don't even have to repeat criticisms that he was friendly with terrorists, accepted the offensive preachings of a wild-eyed minister, or was influenced by a convicted felon. Those are issues of the past and I for one don't need to have you keep repeating "I told you so". If that makes you feel better, great. But how does that improve the dialog in this forum on how we can change issues of governance in the future?

Remember the Trojan Horse

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

No we're not.

[snip\
-- First, everyone that is registered should vote.

-- Second, VOTE OUT THE INCUMBENTS! Don't be tempted to vote for a party and don't err by believing that "your" representatives are OK, that it's all the others that create the problem. Don't vote for any of them. Vote for someone new.

[snip] The American public will have another shot at it in only a little more than a year. If we keep voting for the people already in office, we deserve what we get.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

You are absolutely correct, Bucco. You were preaching doom and gloom then...and you continue to do so now. How about some ideas on even one issue of national governance that you might suggest? You don't even have to start with reforming national healthcare. I'll admit that's a very complicated issue. But just something other than your doom and gloom, the country is turning socialist stuff.

On the issue of me preaching "sunshine", I'll use one of the techniques you so frequently use when someone challenges what you said. Give me some examples of where I "preached sunshine" during the 2008 Presidential campaign.

While I will almost certainly not vote for President Obama's re-election--following my newfound policy of not voting for incumbents--there ARE some things that I think his administration has done well.

• Let's begin with doing what he said he would while campaigning. Unlike some previous Presidents, I can't think of anything that he's done so far that he didn't say he would during the campaign. He told us what he intended to change and he's begun to do so. I hope that future candidates are as truthful.
• He's done a great job of improving the U.S. reputation and ability to conduct diplomacy around the world. Even the 300,000 respondents to the recent CNN poll rated him B+ in this area, while rating his administration F overall.
• He IS doing a competent job as commander-in-chief. He has not hesitated to make the tough military decisions. I particularly like his lack of hesitancy to chase alQuaeda wherever they are, even into Pakistan, using our drone and cruise missle capabilities.
• Say what you will about the stimulus and fiscal policy--the economy seems to have bottomed out from the deepest recession since 1930. It wouldn't have happened without action on the part of the government.

If you want to count those things as "sunshine" on my part, feel free. But I still will probably not vote for his re-election.

Now, give me some examples of the "sunshine" I preached. I voted for Barack Obama because I thought the Obama-Biden ticket was better than the McCain-Palin ticket. There was more unknown about what to expect from a President Obama and I said so. I also said, as pointed out, that if we didn't like how he performed during his first term, we could elect another President. How is that "sunshine"?

By the way, I for one am willing to accept that you've preached doom and gloom and what to expect from a socialist-activist Barack Obama if he was elected. You don't even have to repeat criticisms that he was friendly with terrorists, accepted the offensive preachings of a wild-eyed minister, or was influenced by a convicted felon. Those are issues of the past and I for one don't need to have you keep repeating "I told you so". If that makes you feel better, great. But how does that improve the dialog in this forum on how we can change issues of governance in the future?

Ok..let me begin with the beginning of your post.

I apologize for using the term "preaching sunshine"..not appropriate but it looked good beside my gloom and doom. The point I was trying to make was that you endorsed him with the same sentiment...ie., if we dont like him we can vote him out.

I have continually said without exception that I had no answers and am not arrogant enough to think that I do. I have also said that I OPPOSED the stimulus bill before it was read without being read. I also posted on here that I endorsed the TARP payout.

I am not as well educated as you VK...dont have your financial background and do not pretend to do as others do. I am not glib and do not pretend to be that either.

I posted on here that I opposed Obama but did not support McCain...I also said that probably with any other candidate I would not even have been posting much at all, BUT this particular candidate was scary.

You make an endorsement about him keeping promises, but you ignore those he did not keep and flat out lied about. I will even give you that once elected realities set in and sometimes you cant do what you said, HOWEVER, if you think he was fresh and honest about who and what he was you were not paying attention. Even on the health bill....I can recall TWICE him being for a single payer and now he is OPPOSED to it. He presented himself as something he is NOT and that may be worse than anything.
I think the jury is still out on improving the US reputation. Again,he is a very nice talker and I even have liked some of his speeches, but it is action not words that measure a man !

You refer to his past as if it makes no difference. I submit to you that his past is what made him...it is his influence. You may choose to ignore it as if it never happened but it did.

Again, VK..you are smarter than I and I am never going to win a debate with you, but I know how I feel and I have a right to voice it. I will certainly not say I told you so if I have said that before. You seem to have all the answers, and I will try hard not to detract from your mission to improve the forum.

Originally Posted by Bucco

VK...those are pretty sentiments however....

does the new congress under your scenario just repeal the health insurance bill that Obama WILL get...do they simply repeal all the tentacles that were attached to the simulus bill.....do they simply repeal the card check language that this President will get....and the list will go on and on.
[snip]

Bucco - lets give that new congress a chance to repeal all of the legislation! there are so many other ways to attack the healthcare problems that face this nation. I cut my career teeth working in the insurance industry...my career advanced in the healthcare industry [that employer subsidized my masters in public administration]...and my employment career finale was celebrated in state government service. Based on my 40 years of work experience, I am comfortable stating that our problems with healthcare will not end until there is a 3-prong approach to modify the areas of health care delivery, tort reform and malpractice insurance and regulation. Obama and the clowns who support Obamacare are demonstrating their lack of treating the heart of the matter by throwing $$ down the gov't poop shoot and by destroying the futures so many of us worked so hard to achieve.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Originally Posted by njbchbum

Bucco - lets give that new congress a chance to repeal all of the legislation! there are so many other ways to attack the healthcare problems that face this nation. I cut my career teeth working in the insurance industry...my career advanced in the healthcare industry [that employer subsidized my masters in public administration]...and my employment career finale was celebrated in state government service. Based on my 40 years of work experience, I am comfortable stating that our problems with healthcare will not end until there is a 3-prong approach to modify the areas of health care delivery, tort reform and malpractice insurance and regulation. Obama and the clowns who support Obamacare are demonstrating their lack of treating the heart of the matter by throwing $$ down the gov't poop shoot and by destroying the futures so many of us worked so hard to achieve.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

My only point was that he will get a HEALTH BILL..you can count on it. I have never debated anywhere the goods and bads of the plan as I do not understand it and am not going to say otherwise....BUT...

It seems to me to be a bit strange to be counting on new blood to change the laws that were passed in the last four years especially something as important as health care. It seems a bit clumsy at best. If that happened it would wipe out the so called "legacy" that he is searching for !

Originally Posted by Bucco

...You seem to have all the answers...

Not even close, Bucco. Ask Mrs. Kahuna. I wish I did, but then I still probably wouldn't be able to do anything about them.