[GoodLife]

So we had a black man who was killed during an arrest by Police. This led to huge protests/riots/arson.looting all over the country.

So I looked at the numbers, and thought, what other professions kill unarmed civilians, by mistake or on purpose?

According to the Washington Post database, a total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is:

White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3
Total 41

In some of these cases Police were charged and tried, others were ruled justifiable.

According to the DOJ Police have more than 50 million encounters with citizens every year, traffic stops, domestic violence, burglaries etc etc. Any of these encounters can turn violent. Of course you would like for the number to be zero, but Police killings of unarmed citizens are statistically insignificant compared to the number of encounters.

So chance of unarmed civilian being killed by Police = 41/50,000,000 = 0.00000082

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. More recent studies estimate the number is now more than 200,000 per year.

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

Average number of hospitalizations per year in US is 36,000,000

so chance of being killed by medical error is 200,000/36,000,000 = 0.00555

A small chance, but much much larger than Police chance

You can say well Doctors don't kill people on purpose, these are mistakes. Same can be said for Police, in a few cases they might be convicted of murder, but mostly they are ruled as manslaughter or excessive use of force. If Police really wanted to kill a lot of people of any race they could, they are armed and good shots. The miniscule numbers of this actually happening are statistically insignificant.

Do Doctors ever kill on purpose? Unfortunately they do.

Ohio doctor charged with 25 counts of murdering patients with fatal doses of fentanyl.
His trial has been delayed because of covid, so we will see what a jury says about this.
That's just one Doctor who killed more than 50% of what Police did last year.

How many Doctors go to jail every year for malpractice or murder? Do they avoid prosecution because their insurance pays out large sums?

To err is human for some but not all?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

So we had a black man who was killed during an arrest by Police. This led to huge protests/riots/arson.looting all over the country.

So I looked at the numbers, and thought, what other professions kill unarmed civilians, by mistake or on purpose?

According to the Washington Post database, a total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is:

White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3
Total 41

In some of these cases Police were charged and tried, others were ruled justifiable.

According to the DOJ Police have more than 50 million encounters with citizens every year, traffic stops, domestic violence, burglaries etc etc. Any of these encounters can turn violent. Of course you would like for the number to be zero, but Police killings of unarmed citizens are statistically insignificant compared to the number of encounters.

So chance of unarmed civilian being killed by Police = 41/50,000,000 = 0.00000082

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. More recent studies estimate the number is now more than 200,000 per year.

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

Average number of hospitalizations per year in US is 36,000,000

so chance of being killed by medical error is 200,000/36,000,000 = 0.00555

A small chance, but much much larger than Police chance

You can say well Doctors don't kill people on purpose, these are mistakes. Same can be said for Police, in a few cases they might be convicted of murder, but mostly they are ruled as manslaughter or excessive use of force. If Police really wanted to kill a lot of people of any race they could, they are armed and good shots. The miniscule numbers of this actually happening are statistically insignificant.

Do Doctors ever kill on purpose? Unfortunately they do.

Ohio doctor charged with 25 counts of murdering patients with fatal doses of fentanyl.
His trial has been delayed because of covid, so we will see what a jury says about this.
That's just one Doctor who killed more than 50% of what Police did last year.

How many Doctors go to jail every year for malpractice or murder? Do they avoid prosecution because their insurance pays out large sums?

To err is human for some but not all?

Sorry, but those medical mistake numbers are totally bogus. They are counting any death during a hospitalization that also had a "mistake" involved. Here's how it goes: The doctor ordered a patient to get Tylenol at 6 PM. The nurse needs to administer that dose between 5:30 and 6:30. It is given at 6:31-----MISTAKE!!!! The patient dies of his underlying malignancy 2 weeks later----guess what, it is counted in their bogus "death by mistake" tally. A classic case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this because of this, the sine qua non of faulty cause/effect reasoning). A pharmacist sends up an IV bag with 10 mg of solumedrol instead of the 20 ordered, the patient dies of an unrelated cardiac event a week later---same thing, death by MISTAKE!!!. Very few of these "mistakes" have anything to do with a patient death, and very few of those mistakes are made by the doctor. Now anyone who wants to argue, feel free, but be forewarned that I chaired the quality assurance committee of my hospital for 10 years, was chief of staff for 4 years and sat on the board of directors. These were the numbers and events that we were required to submit to the state health department, so the bean counters could make a big deal out of nothing, and then the media made an even bigger deal out of it.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

So we had a black man who was killed during an arrest by Police. This led to huge protests/riots/arson.looting all over the country.

So I looked at the numbers, and thought, what other professions kill unarmed civilians, by mistake or on purpose?

According to the Washington Post database, a total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is:

White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3
Total 41

In some of these cases Police were charged and tried, others were ruled justifiable.

According to the DOJ Police have more than 50 million encounters with citizens every year, traffic stops, domestic violence, burglaries etc etc. Any of these encounters can turn violent. Of course you would like for the number to be zero, but Police killings of unarmed citizens are statistically insignificant compared to the number of encounters.

So chance of unarmed civilian being killed by Police = 41/50,000,000 = 0.00000082

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. More recent studies estimate the number is now more than 200,000 per year.

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

Average number of hospitalizations per year in US is 36,000,000

so chance of being killed by medical error is 200,000/36,000,000 = 0.00555

A small chance, but much much larger than Police chance

You can say well Doctors don't kill people on purpose, these are mistakes. Same can be said for Police, in a few cases they might be convicted of murder, but mostly they are ruled as manslaughter or excessive use of force. If Police really wanted to kill a lot of people of any race they could, they are armed and good shots. The miniscule numbers of this actually happening are statistically insignificant.

Do Doctors ever kill on purpose? Unfortunately they do.

Ohio doctor charged with 25 counts of murdering patients with fatal doses of fentanyl.
His trial has been delayed because of covid, so we will see what a jury says about this.
That's just one Doctor who killed more than 50% of what Police did last year.

How many Doctors go to jail every year for malpractice or murder? Do they avoid prosecution because their insurance pays out large sums?

To err is human for some but not all?

Very interesting.

[dewilson58]

How many of those Doctor caused deaths were a result of the Doctor's slice vs. a hook???
That's what inquiring minds want to know.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

How many of those Doctor caused deaths were a result of the Doctor's slice vs. a hook???
That's what inquiring minds want to know.

I would suspect the "slice", especially in the OR. We haven't used hooks in a hundred years

PS--read post #2. Most of the "mistakes" are irrelevant, and probably less than 2% are committed by the doctor, so please don't refer to them as "doctor deaths" I think the term "bean counter's anomaly" describes it better

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Sorry, but those medical mistake numbers are totally bogus. They are counting any death during a hospitalization that also had a "mistake" involved. Here's how it goes: The doctor ordered a patient to get Tylenol at 6 PM. The nurse needs to administer that dose between 5:30 and 6:30. It is given at 6:31-----MISTAKE!!!! The patient dies of his underlying malignancy 2 weeks later----guess what, it is counted in their bogus "death by mistake" tally. A classic case of post hoc ergo propter hoc (after this because of this, the sine qua non of faulty cause/effect reasoning). A pharmacist sends up an IV bag with 10 mg of solumedrol instead of the 20 ordered, the patient dies of an unrelated cardiac event a week later---same thing, death by MISTAKE!!!. Very few of these "mistakes" have anything to do with a patient death, and very few of those mistakes are made by the doctor. Now anyone who wants to argue, feel free, but be forewarned that I chaired the quality assurance committee of my hospital for 10 years, was chief of staff for 4 years and sat on the board of directors. These were the numbers and events that we were required to submit to the state health department, so the bean counters could make a big deal out of nothing, and then the media made an even bigger deal out of it.

I was assured by another Doctor on this forum that ProPublica.org was a very good source. Their article quotes studies done by Institute of Medicine, Inspector General for Health and Human Services, and the Journal for Patient Safety.

Here's another one from John Hopkins. Are these guys bean counters too?

Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. Analyzing medical death rate data over an eight-year period, Johns Hopkins patient safety experts have calculated that more than 250,000 deaths per year are due to medical error in the U.S.

Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in the U.S. - 05/03/2016

So you are saying all these Doctor/hospital deaths are bogus? It's all the nurses fault?

Can you post a link to another unbiased source showing the true number? I think that some might think a source from Doctor organizations might be biased.

I'm not trying to knock Doctors down, several of them have saved my life, just comparing the death rates vs Police shootings of unarmed civilians. I can change the title to "medical error deaths" if that's more accurate.

[Two Bills]

Whatever the odds, I still prefer a doctor to cut me open, rather than a policeman!

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

I would suspect the "slice", especially in the OR. We haven't used hooks in a hundred years

I would recommend a stronger grip.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

So we had a black man who was killed during an arrest by Police. This led to huge protests/riots/arson.looting all over the country.

So I looked at the numbers, and thought, what other professions kill unarmed civilians, by mistake or on purpose?

According to the Washington Post database, a total of 41 unarmed people were shot and killed by US police in 2019. The racial composition of victims is:

White: 19
Black: 9
Hispanic: 6
Other: 4
Unknown: 3
Total 41

In some of these cases Police were charged and tried, others were ruled justifiable.

According to the DOJ Police have more than 50 million encounters with citizens every year, traffic stops, domestic violence, burglaries etc etc. Any of these encounters can turn violent. Of course you would like for the number to be zero, but Police killings of unarmed citizens are statistically insignificant compared to the number of encounters.

So chance of unarmed civilian being killed by Police = 41/50,000,000 = 0.00000082

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, which dropped a bombshell on the medical community by reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. More recent studies estimate the number is now more than 200,000 per year.

How Many Die From Medical Mistakes in U.S. Hospitals? — ProPublica

Average number of hospitalizations per year in US is 36,000,000

so chance of being killed by medical error is 200,000/36,000,000 = 0.00555

A small chance, but much much larger than Police chance

You can say well Doctors don't kill people on purpose, these are mistakes. Same can be said for Police, in a few cases they might be convicted of murder, but mostly they are ruled as manslaughter or excessive use of force. If Police really wanted to kill a lot of people of any race they could, they are armed and good shots. The miniscule numbers of this actually happening are statistically insignificant.

Do Doctors ever kill on purpose? Unfortunately they do.

Ohio doctor charged with 25 counts of murdering patients with fatal doses of fentanyl.
His trial has been delayed because of covid, so we will see what a jury says about this.
That's just one Doctor who killed more than 50% of what Police did last year.

How many Doctors go to jail every year for malpractice or murder? Do they avoid prosecution because their insurance pays out large sums?

To err is human for some but not all?

2019 Washington post 999! People killed, since 2015 5400 killed Washington post , in 2019 1004 killed by police , so far in 2020, killed by police 172 white , 88 blacks,57 Hispanic , 14 other, and 98 race unknown , I guess there are still people who think no one knows how to google, you can see the breakdown of state s for those years , all I had was 3 minutes to find about 10 sites including FBI lol

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by charlieo1126@gmail.com

2019 Washington post 999! People killed, since 2015 5400 killed Washington post , in 2019 1004 killed by police , so far in 2020, killed by police 172 white , 88 blacks,57 Hispanic , 14 other, and 98 race unknown , I guess there are still people who think no one knows how to google, you can see the breakdown of state s for those years , all I had was 3 minutes to find about 10 sites including FBI lol

The numbers I quote are from the Washington Post, and they are for UNARMED CIVILIANS killed by Police in 2019. Police shoot lots more ARMED CRIMINALS.

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm guessing the OP is not black and has a very limited idea of what it's like being a black person?

I do understand the point being made. The facts are not lost on me.

Not that it matters but I did grow up very poor, had to work full time instead of going to high school and maybe about 20% of my friends were black. I'm only pointing out my background as a point of reference.

Having black friends really let's a person see what they see. I can honestly say that there was never a time when racism didn't get brought up. Some of the situations we discussed seemed more likely that racism wasn't actual but rather perceived. I could disagree with my friends and it didn't cause any problems most of the time. It was shocking that a friend thought I was being racist when one day I said "boy am I tired" as I let out a deep breath. My friend instantly wanted to fight over that statement. It actually took a rather uncomfortable amount of time to convince him I wasn't calling him a boy. Again, I'm pointing out how a friend perceived racism when it didn't exist. I do try to see things from a different perspective as a result of my experiences.

As far as the police are concerned, I could easily recount no less than a dozen times I was with my friends and the police harrassed us for no reason. It was brutal to witness the outright racism and be a white person.

I absolutely don't condone resisting arrest, attacking a police officer or even disrespecting law enforcement in any way. I wish it would stop because it's not helping.

Unfortunately fatherless families, gangs, welfare, anti-white peer pressure etc are underlying issues that possibly lead to anger and rebellion? I don't have the answers.

What I do know is that statistics don't give you a complete picture. They are indisputable when it comes to showing the results of a broken system but they don't give us a road map to the solution.

It's so easy to say stop breaking the law, finish school, get a job and don't have kids out of wedlock.

That's what I ended up doing.
But that didn't work for the young man walking home one night minding his own business. He was a shy, introverted 19 year old that was confronted by several officers for looking "suspicious". He was killed and it was all on police body cameras. He didn't resist, was handcuffed and laying face down saying he couldn't breath. 5 officers kept him pinned down and then they had medical personnel give a powerful sedative.

This shouldn't happen to anyone of any color.

I support the police and I support police reforms that weed out bad cops instead of protecting them. BLM doesn't mean white lives don't matter so stop being offended if that bothers you.

[GoodLife]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

I'm going out on a limb here but I'm guessing the OP is not black and has a very limited idea of what it's like being a black person?

I do understand the point being made. The facts are not lost on me.

Not that it matters but I did grow up very poor, had to work full time instead of going to high school and maybe about 20% of my friends were black. I'm only pointing out my background as a point of reference.

Having black friends really let's a person see what they see. I can honestly say that there was never a time when racism didn't get brought up. Some of the situations we discussed seemed more likely that racism wasn't actual but rather perceived. I could disagree with my friends and it didn't cause any problems most of the time. It was shocking that a friend thought I was being racist when one day I said "boy am I tired" as I let out a deep breath. My friend instantly wanted to fight over that statement. It actually took a rather uncomfortable amount of time to convince him I wasn't calling him a boy. Again, I'm pointing out how a friend perceived racism when it didn't exist. I do try to see things from a different perspective as a result of my experiences.

As far as the police are concerned, I could easily recount no less than a dozen times I was with my friends and the police harrassed us for no reason. It was brutal to witness the outright racism and be a white person.

I absolutely don't condone resisting arrest, attacking a police officer or even disrespecting law enforcement in any way. I wish it would stop because it's not helping.

Unfortunately fatherless families, gangs, welfare, anti-white peer pressure etc are underlying issues that possibly lead to anger and rebellion? I don't have the answers.

What I do know is that statistics don't give you a complete picture. They are indisputable when it comes to showing the results of a broken system but they don't give us a road map to the solution.

It's so easy to say stop breaking the law, finish school, get a job and don't have kids out of wedlock.

That's what I ended up doing.
But that didn't work for the young man walking home one night minding his own business. He was a shy, introverted 19 year old that was confronted by several officers for looking "suspicious". He was killed and it was all on police body cameras. He didn't resist, was handcuffed and laying face down saying he couldn't breath. 5 officers kept him pinned down and then they had medical personnel give a powerful sedative.

This shouldn't happen to anyone of any color.

I support the police and I support police reforms that weed out bad cops instead of protecting them. BLM doesn't mean white lives don't matter so stop being offended if that bothers you.

Yes, you're the only one here who has ever had black friends. LOL I grew up in Chicago just for starters, played on a lot of sports teams that were mixed races. Lots of black friends.

I've been harassed by Police in groups of all whites, been tear gassed at Berkeley during People's Park, and was once pulled over by cops in California driving my girlfriends red mini cooper. They told me over their loudspeaker to get out of my car, hands raised and put them on the roof. As I looked back both cops were behind the doors of their cruiser with their guns aimed at me. I complied 100% They approached and as one officer patted me down, the other one stood 15 feet away with his gun pointed at me. Turns out, they heard of an armed car jacking on their radio, saw me and pulled me over. After seeing registration etc they apologized and told me what had happened.

There's no doubt that blacks as a whole are poorer, less educated than whites. But we've been throwing gobs of money at the problem, writing laws to prevent discrimination, etc for years. We had a black President for 8 years. Problems still exists with fatherless black families, high crime rates etc.

Why do other minorities exist like Asians, latinos etc that seem able to thrive in our system, schools, economy? Sooner or later we stop hearing the boy who cried wolf.

You answered my first question. You do have limited knowledge of what it's like living as a black person.

You make a false statement to support your comment. You claimed I was the only one on this site that has ever had black friends. I never made such a claim.

You claimed to have had black friends but only state that you played sports on mixed raced teams.

You give an example of how rough life was for you as if your run-in with the cops compares to what black people go through. It was a mistake and the police apologized to you. Oh, you poor thing. How do you even sleep at night?

You state that blacks are more poorer and less educated despite gobs of money being thrown at the problem. Laws are written to prevent discrimination and Obama had 8 years to fix the problem but failed. Well, I guess we should throw in towel? After all there's a law against discrimination. Job well done if I do say so myself.

Why do other minorities thrive that were never slaves? That didn't have the same history?

Well done sir, I'm sure all your black friends agree with your assessment and you certainly know how it feels to be black.

It's funny that your comment will stand as the last word and mine will get deleted. Who says white privilege doesn't exist. Come to TV and see it for yourself.

[jacksonbrown]

Why do other minorities thrive that were never slaves?

So to which minorities are you referring?

The Irish, Italians, Orientals?

Maybe they would remind you of the potato famine, Roman and Mussolini rule, communist oligarths.

I'm not going to address other races that have at some point in the worlds history, were enslaved by another race. I'm only sticking to the sufferage Black Americans endured after slavery ended. This is what is tearing America apart right now.

Some people in the black race feel that not enough has been done to address the inequities that they feel still exist in America.

Not all black people feel this way but that doesn't mean that the ones that do can't express their feelings for change. A lot of other races support the movement to rid our country of painful reminders of the past and a lot of companies are also supportive of this movement.

Unfortunately, other groups are hijacking this movement and promoting violence to further their agenda.

It's also unfortunate that the violence all too prevalent in the black race has giving opponents to this movement statistical ammunition to justify the status quo.