[Plinker]

The Realities of a Reverse Mortgage the Salesman Won’t Disclose

Mary has a home worth 6 apples and is very, very hungry.
Farmer Jim gives Mary 3 apples (half the value of her home). If Mary eats all of her apples and passes away, farmer Jim gets her home because Mary now owes farmer Jim far more than the house is worth.
When Mary passes away her home is now worth 8 apples but due to fees and interest she now owes farmer Jim 10 apples. Mary had hoped to leave her home to her only heir, a sweet little lamb. Unfortunately, if you recall, Mary was very, very hungry and she owed more apples than the home was worth.
Farmer Jim sells the home for 8 apples and then hits the townsfolk up for the remaining 2 apples.
Oh, I almost forgot. Before sealing the deal, farmer Bruce (oops, I mean Jim) invites Mary over for a free, fried-chicken dinner.

Introducing the cast:
The trusting yet vulnerable Villager is played by Mary
Your substantial home equity is played by the apple
Your heirs are played by the sweet little lamb (really gonna miss you!)
The burdened taxpayers are played by the townsfolk.
The sketchy RM salesman and lender is played by farmer Jim
Oh and the fried-chicken dinner was anything but free. Mary paid for it.

[EdFNJ]

Wasn't this same silly "wink -wink can you figure this out" thread that was posted a few weeks ago ? You must have had a bad result with a RM because virtually all your posts (and the last 7 topics you started) are negative about them? So what actually is your story without the nursery rhymes? My father had a superior result with his and was the best thing he could have done for his situation.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Plinker

The Realities of a Reverse Mortgage the Salesman Won’t Disclose

Mary has a home worth 6 apples and is very, very hungry.
Farmer Jim gives Mary 3 apples (half the value of her home). If Mary eats all of her apples and passes away, farmer Jim gets her home because Mary now owes farmer Jim far more than the house is worth.
When Mary passes away her home is now worth 8 apples but due to fees and interest she now owes farmer Jim 10 apples. Mary had hoped to leave her home to her only heir, a sweet little lamb. Unfortunately, if you recall, Mary was very, very hungry and she owed more apples than the home was worth.
Farmer Jim sells the home for 8 apples and then hits the townsfolk up for the remaining 2 apples.
Oh, I almost forgot. Before sealing the deal, farmer Bruce (oops, I mean Jim) invites Mary over for a free, fried-chicken dinner.

Introducing the cast:
The trusting yet vulnerable Villager is played by Mary
Your substantial home equity is played by the apple
Your heirs are played by the sweet little lamb (really gonna miss you!)
The burdened taxpayers are played by the townsfolk.
The sketchy RM salesman and lender is played by farmer Jim
Oh and the fried-chicken dinner was anything but free. Mary paid for it.

Very good

[Toymeister]

He is pointing out that the Reverse Mortgage salesman who posts multiple times a day to drum up business does not operate under the same forum rules that we do.

The underlying reason is he is a paid advertiser. The problem with letting a generally dislike poster (because of his rude, sarcastic posts) continue to post ad nauseum is it irodes the value of the entire forum, and therefore the entire ad stream.

What sort of things does he do that we cannot? Solicit business with his business signature line. Personally attack other posters to include name calling. These offensives occur repeatedly often several times a day, so much so that anyone else would be permanently banned months ago.

If the forum owner had a more global perspective s/he would realize this is the one sponsor that drives away and irritates more posters than ad revenue that he is worth. Forum users expect some level playing field and when you realize a reverse mortgage salesman is calling the shots the forum is rapidly becoming useless - just a veiled way to sell RMs.

[wisbad1]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

He is pointing out that the Reverse Mortgage salesman who posts multiple times a day to drum up business does not operate under the same forum rules that we do.

The underlying reason is he is a paid advertiser. The problem with letting a generally dislike poster (because of his rude, sarcastic posts) continue to post ad nauseum is it irodes the value of the entire forum, and therefore the entire ad stream.

What sort of things does he do that we cannot? Solicit business with his business signature line. Personally attack other posters to include name calling. These offensives occur repeatedly often several times a day, so much so that anyone else would be permanently banned months ago.

If the forum owner had a more global perspective s/he would realize this is the one sponsor that drives away and irritates more posters than ad revenue that he is worth. Forum users expect some level playing field and when you realize a reverse mortgage salesman is calling the shots the forum is rapidly becoming useless - just a veiled way to sell RMs.

Could not have said it better! Thanks

[DIY&Save]

Exactly. It is directed at the RM salesman that hasn’t an ounce of credibility. As I recall, the OP has stated that a RM can be useful in select cases but only if the borrower has sought out a fiduciary review of their finances. Bruce states it is for everyone with home equity and a pulse.
Also, who would follow the advice of a fiscally insolvent salesman? His financial past proves he is, in my opinion, ineligible to be giving financial advice to anyone.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by EdFNJ

Wasn't this same silly "wink -wink can you figure this out" thread that was posted a few weeks ago ? You must have had a bad result with a RM because virtually all your posts (and the last 7 topics you started) are negative about them? So what actually is your story without the nursery rhymes? My father had a superior result with his and was the best thing he could have done for his situation.

We taxpayers picked up your father's tab, not his lender.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by Toymeister

He is pointing out that the Reverse Mortgage salesman who posts multiple times a day to drum up business does not operate under the same forum rules that we do.

The underlying reason is he is a paid advertiser. The problem with letting a generally dislike poster (because of his rude, sarcastic posts) continue to post ad nauseum is it irodes the value of the entire forum, and therefore the entire ad stream.

What sort of things does he do that we cannot? Solicit business with his business signature line. Personally attack other posters to include name calling. These offensives occur repeatedly often several times a day, so much so that anyone else would be permanently banned months ago.

If the forum owner had a more global perspective s/he would realize this is the one sponsor that drives away and irritates more posters than ad revenue that he is worth. Forum users expect some level playing field and when you realize a reverse mortgage salesman is calling the shots the forum is rapidly becoming useless - just a veiled way to sell RMs.

Well said. Commented on his threads for awhile but noticed that my comments either were deleted or he posted obnoxious comments toward anyone who disagreed with him so finally just stopped posting there.

[JohnN]

Plinker, this post makes me think I'm having "deja vue all over again" (Yogi Berra).

But now it's different, I think if a sinkhole swallows my apples, or lightning hits 'em, and probably if a horse eat's 'em, then I won't have any more apples.

[Leadbone1]

This is a complete misrepresentation. I am a mobile notary in the villages and I do reverse mortgage applications and closings. I am independent and not affiliated with any reverse mortgage company. The interest rate charged is the same as any bank is charging right now to do a refinance or a home equity loan. The main benefit the people I have worked with see to the reverse mortgages is that their current mortgage is paid off and then they have a pool of money they can draw from if they choose. The reverse mortgages don’t lend over 75% of the value of the home. Some people use the extra money and some don’t. You can sell the house anytime you wish and all you do is pay back what you borrowed with the interest rate you agreed to, same as any other loan. No different than if you had refinanced your home or gotten a home equity loan. The leftover goes to your family and as your house continues to go up in value your heirs will get even more if you decide to pay back what you owe when you pass. The only negative I see to this or any other loan is when you refinance or do one of these you add to your principal amount because of the closing costs. These have been a lifesaver for some people. Also most peoples children are not waiting around for them to die so they can get money from the home. Most would want their parents to live a better life now rather than struggle financially.

[Eg_cruz]

Originally Posted by Plinker

The Realities of a Reverse Mortgage the Salesman Won’t Disclose

Mary has a home worth 6 apples and is very, very hungry.
Farmer Jim gives Mary 3 apples (half the value of her home). If Mary eats all of her apples and passes away, farmer Jim gets her home because Mary now owes farmer Jim far more than the house is worth.
When Mary passes away her home is now worth 8 apples but due to fees and interest she now owes farmer Jim 10 apples. Mary had hoped to leave her home to her only heir, a sweet little lamb. Unfortunately, if you recall, Mary was very, very hungry and she owed more apples than the home was worth.
Farmer Jim sells the home for 8 apples and then hits the townsfolk up for the remaining 2 apples.
Oh, I almost forgot. Before sealing the deal, farmer Bruce (oops, I mean Jim) invites Mary over for a free, fried-chicken dinner.

Introducing the cast:
The trusting yet vulnerable Villager is played by Mary
Your substantial home equity is played by the apple
Your heirs are played by the sweet little lamb (really gonna miss you!)
The burdened taxpayers are played by the townsfolk.
The sketchy RM salesman and lender is played by farmer Jim
Oh and the fried-chicken dinner was anything but free. Mary paid for it.

I will agree that RM are not for everyone.......but there is a fit for some. A few years back I had a client who could not pay for her meds so she simply quit taking them. She has zero assets. She refused to move. Her home was paid for so what would you do for her. RM was the right fit, she only did 1/4th of the value because she only wanted enough money to keep up with her cost of living.....taking her meds.

Now the bad fit. Years ago someone (not your farmer) did a RM in The Villages for a couple who had plenty of income but no LTC so someone helped them into a RM took the funds and put in an annuity and use the gains off the annuity to pay for the LTC. Here’s the problem Mr passed away and the kids wanted her to move back home but she was know upside down on her home. This became a hot mess for the family....so bad RM because it was done for the wrong reason.

For every bad story there is a good one. Today RM’s are very regulated and you have to go through a lot of steps.
To say they are good or bad doesn’t quite fit because everyone has a different story.

You are also wrong on the 50/50% of a RM

Like an other asked you clearly have a personal story so why don’t you share that because it may help someone thinking about a RM and will it fit them.

Last always consult your family, your financial advisor and your accountant before you sign a dotted line

And NO I have never sold a RM, I have nothing to do with them but I have clients that have, so I do understand them.

[Miriam2940]

Absolutely, thank you!

[joseppe]

Originally Posted by Plinker

The Realities of a Reverse Mortgage the Salesman Won’t Disclose

Mary has a home worth 6 apples and is very, very hungry.
Farmer Jim gives Mary 3 apples (half the value of her home). If Mary eats all of her apples and passes away, farmer Jim gets her home because Mary now owes farmer Jim far more than the house is worth.
When Mary passes away her home is now worth 8 apples but due to fees and interest she now owes farmer Jim 10 apples. Mary had hoped to leave her home to her only heir, a sweet little lamb. Unfortunately, if you recall, Mary was very, very hungry and she owed more apples than the home was worth.
Farmer Jim sells the home for 8 apples and then hits the townsfolk up for the remaining 2 apples.
Oh, I almost forgot. Before sealing the deal, farmer Bruce (oops, I mean Jim) invites Mary over for a free, fried-chicken dinner.

Introducing the cast:
The trusting yet vulnerable Villager is played by Mary
Your substantial home equity is played by the apple
Your heirs are played by the sweet little lamb (really gonna miss you!)
The burdened taxpayers are played by the townsfolk.
The sketchy RM salesman and lender is played by farmer Jim
Oh and the fried-chicken dinner was anything but free. Mary paid for it.

Your analogy is without substantiation. Its quite evident that you know very little or nothing about reverse mortgages. I am not an advocate of RM nor do I work in the mortgage industry, but I have had a reverse mortgage and know how they work. Its highly unlikely that in an appreciating market Mary would owe the lender more than the house is worth. If it were the case that Mary owed the lender more than the property is worth the lender eats that difference as a business loss. Explain how you see a normal business loss as burdening 'townsfolk' any more than any other business loss. If you want to attack the concept of RM post some believable and verifiable situation rather than your 'Fairy Tale'.

[Miriam2940]

I got a reverse mortgage throug Bruce and I am very happy. I never had to have a financial review of any kind. In fact my wealth manager suggested the reverse mortgage in the first place. It has been mentioned that Bruce posts nasty messages..I have never seen that nor have I experienced that in my dealings with him

[JohnN]

Originally Posted by Eg_cruz

I will agree that RM are not for everyone.......but there is a fit for some. A few years back I had a client who could not pay for her meds so she simply quit taking them. She has zero assets. She refused to move. Her home was paid for so what would you do for her. RM was the right fit

I'd agree with that, no problem. The RM guy that advertises three times a day here and I've not ever heard him say "a fit for some". He makes it sound like free money is raining from the sky and then throws "blessings" into it. It sounds like a con job to me and apparently many others. That "free money" being relative, after his commission and closing costs. IF there is a fit, then go for it. But people need to be counseled and not just a sell-job. It is a loan. That's how I see it and I'd guess I'm entitled to my opinion.