[brostholder]

I was watching Dr. Phil the other day (not something I usually do). He had a woman on who had adopted 2 russian twin children. One was well behaved, but the other one seemed to have behavioral issues. The child had lied to her about something that had happened at school, so she took him into the bathroom while she was screaming at him, sat him down and poured a lot of hot sauce into his mouth while she continued screaming. After a minute she let him spit it out and then she undressed him and put him in a cold shower. Now, I don't think anyone would argue that this behavior by the mother is extreme. But when I mentioned it at work the next day, one of the young girls I work with said she also puts hot sauce in her kids mouth, and my daughter said that she knows someone who does it.
I was wondering what everyone else's thoughts are on using this as a punishment?

[Ajack]

Never thought about it but we had our mouth washed with soap if we were using foul language. It seemed to clean up our vocabulary.

[K9-Lovers]

It sounds like torture to me.

[brostholder]

Originally Posted by Ajack

Never thought about it but we had our mouth washed with soap if we were using foul language. It seemed to clean up our vocabulary.

I thought about that....soap tasted terrible. Hot sauce burns, causes pain, and I guess, depending on the strength, could cause blistering.

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by brostholder

I thought about that....soap tasted terrible. Hot sauce burns, causes pain, and I guess, depending on the strength, could cause blistering.

I grew some of the hottest peppers known to man and I never injured myself or heard of anybody injuring themselves. The pain goes away, the memory might linger.
I have also been sprayed directly in my eyes with pepper spray and had no injuries.

[redwitch]

Considering that many who work with children (including many child protective services employees) think that putting soap (even one as mild and pure as Ivory) in the mouth is child abuse, I can only imagine what they would say to hot sauce. I don't think torturing a child is going to help.

The sad thing is that adoptive parents really aren't warned about some of the behavorial issues that come with adopting an older child. Children adopted from Russia frequently have fetal alchohol effect or syndrome. This means organic brain damage with nothing to really help control the extreme impulse issues. Attachment disorders are common in older child adoptions. They are next to impossible to treat and frequently create an adult with borderline personalities at best. I feel for this mother but she needs some help in parenting these children. If the one does have FAS or FAE or attachment issues, the hot sauce will not work. Neither will any other form of punishment. The reward system will work somewhat better but not as much as we would like. (Sorry, one of my buttons.)

Going back to the hot sauce issue. I honestly wouldn't hesitate to notify CPS if I knew of a parent using this as a form of punishment/lesson. If they're willing to burn their child's mouth, what else are they willing to do?

[joannej]

How about a mouthful of cod liver oil for saying "shut up" (when I was young)!

[redwitch]

Cod liver oil tastes yucky but doesn't hurt (hot sauce burns; soap has chemicals). I'd just feed my child liver (cooked) when she started getting mouthy -- worked like a charm. roflao

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Cod liver oil tastes yucky but doesn't hurt (hot sauce burns; soap has chemicals). I'd just feed my child liver (cooked) when she started getting mouthy -- worked like a charm. roflao

Hot sauce will give a "burning sensation" but it does not actually burn. I am not condoning the practice. Just trying for a little levity here.

[Mudder]

I saw that program too. To me it seems like child abuse and I think Dr. Phil said it is child abuse. The kid was terrified, the mother was at her wit's end as to what to do. Hope they get the help they need.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by redwitch

Considering that many who work with children (including many child protective services employees) think that putting soap (even one as mild and pure as Ivory) in the mouth is child abuse, I can only imagine what they would say to hot sauce. I don't think torturing a child is going to help.

The sad thing is that adoptive parents really aren't warned about some of the behavioral issues that come with adopting an older child. Children adopted from Russia frequently have fetal alcohol effect or syndrome. This means organic brain damage with nothing to really help control the extreme impulse issues. Attachment disorders are common in older child adoptions. They are next to impossible to treat and frequently create an adult with borderline personalities at best. I feel for this mother but she needs some help in parenting these children. If the one does have FAS or FAE or attachment issues, the hot sauce will not work. Neither will any other form of punishment. The reward system will work somewhat better but not as much as we would like. (Sorry, one of my buttons.)

Going back to the hot sauce issue. I honestly wouldn't hesitate to notify CPS if I knew of a parent using this as a form of punishment/lesson. If they're willing to burn their child's mouth, what else are they willing to do?

My button too.

I agree completely about the adoption problems such as fetal alcohol syndrome.

Children are not really a blank slate, even if adopted at birth. I was taught that behavioral modification works, but now I fervently believe that a baby is born with a definite personality. That doesn't mean a LOT of work and love and patience can't make a HUGE difference, but it can't "fix" everything.

[Talk Host]

How could anybody do that to a precious little child?

[JenAjd]

Didn't watch the show..but saw the commercials of it prior. I know for many adopted kids, that there is a bonding issue for them. Many from over-seas are in orphanages or bad home situations and they never learned to bond with anyone. It's called "attachment disorder". It's so sad to hear about these kids and also sad for the adoptive families too. I've heard there are measures to enable attachment...but don't know how that works for older children. I know of one woman who got a toddler from China and she had to carry her all day long (with the child facing her..so probably in a sling) and had to do this for several months. It's the eye to eye and physical contact thing. Breaks my heart to hear bad stories such as the one on this program!!

Did they have a good resolution??

[Mikeod]

I would be concerned about what the action is teaching the child. So that child grows up thinking it's OK to put something that hurts into their child's mouth? But they don't have hot sauce handy, so let's look for something else that should hurt. And it results in real injury.

[K9-Lovers]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Children are not really a blank slate, even if adopted at birth. I was taught that behavioral modification works, but now I fervently believe that a baby is born with a definite personality. That doesn't mean a LOT of work and love and patience can't make a HUGE difference, but it can't "fix" everything.