[alanmcdonald]

There have been at least three accidents at the intersection of 466a and Buena Vista this week, not to mention the fatal motorcycle accident recently.

The problem is the yellow left turn signals that permit left turns in a place where it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane.

Also, if you are in the left turn lane and do not try to turn on the yellow arrow the cars behind you start honking to get you to move.

What needs to happen to get the yellow arrows removed and red lights for the turn lanes when there is no green left turn arrow?

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by alanmcdonald

There have been at least three accidents at the intersection of 466a and Buena Vista this week, not to mention the fatal motorcycle accident recently.

The problem is the yellow left turn signals that permit left turns in a place where it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane.

Also, if you are in the left turn lane and do not try to turn on the yellow arrow the cars behind you start honking to get you to move.

What needs to happen to get the yellow arrows removed and red lights for the turn lanes when there is no green left turn arrow?

Impossible???? I make that turn with vehicles in the oncoming left turn lane at least 7-8 times/week and don't see a problem at all.

What needs to happen? Drivers need to see their ophthalmologist or re-take drivers-ed.

What will most likely happen? Like other ridiculous dedicated left turn arrows, they will change this one as well, with the result of a big back up to make the left, just like Morse and 466A. Of course, just like Morse and 466A, the turn lane is not long enough to accommodate this, so the last car will have their arse sticking out in the left lane and some distracted driver will plow into them at full speed.

So, pick your poison.

[VApeople]

Originally Posted by alanmcdonald

The problem is the yellow left turn signals that permit left turns in a place where it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane.

If a driver on 466A finds that "it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane", they should not try to turn left onto Buena Vista.

Originally Posted by alanmcdonald

Also, if you are in the left turn lane and do not try to turn on the yellow arrow the cars behind you start honking to get you to move.

Why is that a problem?

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by alanmcdonald

There have been at least three accidents at the intersection of 466a and Buena Vista this week, not to mention the fatal motorcycle accident recently.

The problem is the yellow left turn signals that permit left turns in a place where it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane.

Also, if you are in the left turn lane and do not try to turn on the yellow arrow the cars behind you start honking to get you to move.

What needs to happen to get the yellow arrows removed and red lights for the turn lanes when there is no green left turn arrow?

Sounds like you had some horns honked at you.

[Bilyclub]

Of course if you sit behind the solid white line when the lights green and the arrow is flashing yellow, it's hard to make a left turn at all.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Impossible???? I make that turn with vehicles in the oncoming left turn lane at least 7-8 times/week and don't see a problem at all.

What needs to happen? Drivers need to see their ophthalmologist or re-take drivers-ed.

What will most likely happen? Like other ridiculous dedicated left turn arrows, they will change this one as well, with the result of a big back up to make the left, just like Morse and 466A. Of course, just like Morse and 466A, the turn lane is not long enough to accommodate this, so the last car will have their arse sticking out in the left lane and some distracted driver will plow into them at full speed.

So, pick your poison.

Glad to hear the flashing yellow is still there. I hope it remains that way but given the changes at Morse & 44 and Buena Vista & 44 I'm not optimistic.

[mrf0151]

One thing the traffic technicians should do is set a few second delay for green. Doing this would allow the intersection to clear before traffic enters the intersection again.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Glad to hear the flashing yellow is still there. I hope it remains that way but given the changes at Morse & 44 and Buena Vista & 44 I'm not optimistic.

Neither am I. The one at 44 and Morse, turning from southbound Morse to 44 E is the most egregious. It lets 3-4 cars through then turns red, even though you can see over 1/2 mile down Morse. The problem is that like most things these days, we are playing to the lowest common denominator. Amazing how those with the worst driving skills are clamoring to make it "safer"---the same ones who are constantly posting "slow down, we're retired". I'm not advocating speeding, but likewise driving 10 mph below the speed limit is ridiculous, irritating, and speaks to a complete lack of driving ability. Give up your license!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by mrf0151

One thing the traffic technicians should do is set a few second delay for green. Doing this would allow the intersection to clear before traffic enters the intersection again.

I'm pretty sure that light has such a delay, but that's not the problem. Those with less than 20/20 vision, who claim they can't see oncoming traffic, just go ahead and turn anyway. Hence, the accidents described above. Then they want to blame the intersection and not their poor driving skills for whatever happens.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by mrf0151

One thing the traffic technicians should do is set a few second delay for green. Doing this would allow the intersection to clear before traffic enters the intersection again.

In theory, yes. In reality, drivers have already learned that there is a delay and that a few more cars can get through on the red before cross traffic starts moving.

It is quite possible that some of the accidents are due to just that: the left-turning vehicle legally sitting in the intersection waiting to finish the turn sees the light turn red and proceeds while the oncoming driver sees the light turn red and knows he can still make it through before the cross traffic gets the green light. The result is a collision with fingers pointed at the left-turning vehicle while it is actually the driver who ran the red light that should be faulted.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Neither am I. The one at 44 and Morse, turning from southbound Morse to 44 E is the most egregious. It lets 3-4 cars through then turns red, even though you can see over 1/2 mile down Morse. The problem is that like most things these days, we are playing to the lowest common denominator. Amazing how those with the worst driving skills are clamoring to make it "safer"---the same ones who are constantly posting "slow down, we're retired". I'm not advocating speeding, but likewise driving 10 mph below the speed limit is ridiculous, irritating, and speaks to a complete lack of driving ability. Give up your license!

I'm not so sure that "playing to the lowest common denominator " is a bad thing in this case. Clearly, it seems to me, that the number of accidents at 466A and BV indicates a change should be made. Generally, I am in favor of the flashing yellow. But it just isn't working there. Too many lanes of traffic, too much speed, too many large vehicles making it difficult to see around, too many impatient drivers, too many people trying to beat the red light rather than using the yellow as it was intended, as a signal to slow down, ....
It's all a recipe for disaster.

I'm not saying the flashing yellow is a bad thing everywhere, but the history at that intersection indicates that the general population can't use it safely there.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I'm not so sure that "playing to the lowest common denominator " is a bad thing in this case. Clearly, it seems to me, that the number of accidents at 466A and BV indicates a change should be made. Generally, I am in favor of the flashing yellow. But it just isn't working there. Too many lanes of traffic, too much speed, too many large vehicles making it difficult to see around, too many impatient drivers, too many people trying to beat the red light rather than using the yellow as it was intended, as a signal to slow down, ....
It's all a recipe for disaster.

I'm not saying the flashing yellow is a bad thing everywhere, but the history at that intersection indicates that the general population can't use it safely there.

That's a reasonable case. However, consider this:

Thousands upon thousands of drivers negotiate that intersection every day without incident. Only once in a while does somebody , usually a driver lacking the skills to hold a license, do something stupid that results in an accident. Least Common Denominator (LCD). And consider what can happen when the end of the turn lane backs up into the left lane of traffic. This happens at the left turn of 466A onto Morse south every day, which has an arrow that turns red.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

That's a reasonable case. However, consider this:

Thousands upon thousands of drivers negotiate that intersection every day without incident. Only once in a while does somebody , usually a driver lacking the skills to hold a license, do something stupid that results in an accident. Least Common Denominator (LCD). And consider what can happen when the end of the turn lane backs up into the left lane of traffic. This happens at the left turn of 466A onto Morse south every day, which has an arrow that turns red.

True that.
Also, and I don't have a proposal to solve this issue, it is likely that what works with summer traffic flow doesn't work as well with the winter traffic flow. Living in Poinciana, I use that intersection a lot, often making the left off of 466A, going from eastbound to northbound onto BV. Generally, in that direction it's not too bad.
Being a frequent traveller on that road, I do worry about what it will be like when all of those apartments they building behind Trailwinds are populated.

[Chi-Town]

Accidents occurred on a regular basis at the Buena Vista and 466 intersection. Dedicated left turn signals were implemented, and the left turn problem disappeared. Hope the same happens at 466A.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Chi-Town

Accidents occurred on a regular basis at the Buena Vista and 466 intersection. Dedicated left turn signals were implemented, and the left turn problem disappeared. Hope the same happens at 466A.

Personally, I hope it never happens, but in all likelihood you will get your wish. No problem, I'll just add another 10 minutes to my trip home (after all, what's the rush, we're retired)