[ducati1974]

I just read that the UN has voted to enforce a no-fly zone over Libya. The sub-title said "U.S. and France to prepare". Why can't we ever let the neighboring countries deal with the problems near them? Why do we always have to risk our peoples lives and our financial resources on faraway places? I GET the humanitarian aspect but why always us?

[Hancle704]

I agree. We are too quick to spend the lives of our Military, our money and resources to what end?

If the Libyan madman is of concern to his neighbors, let them establish the no fly zone. Haven't they all purchased the same kind of military aircraft from France, Russia and the U.S, we would have to use?

U.S. involvement will be a no win situation.

[ducati1974]

Yup, no win situation is right. I've had people tell me they believe we should be in Pakistan in addition to Afghanistan to fight Al Qaida. I'm sure that would make us a lot of friends (not), in addition to sinking us deeper into the quagmire.

[skyguy79]

I'm not really going to disgree with any of you in principle, but IMHO I must say that it would be so nice to be able to know and do what MUST be done as it is to have opinions about what we feel should or must be done.

Most specfically on my mind is, can you just imagine the reaction that would occur if one muslum nation took military action against another muslim nation, as being suggested or implied here? All hell would most likely break out and would pose a high probability of trigger a catostropic WWIII!

International politics are never as simple as they ideally should be and we never think of or know of all the critical elements that affect effective policy making, and it's sad to say that most politicans don't know much more!

Now I'm not and never have been an Obama supporter, but in this case I feel that it was right for him to hold back getting too involved in the Lybia situation until the "Useless Nations" organization approved a resolution in favor of the no-fly zone, especially since it is now evident of having worked with Ka-Daffy-Duck's responding by calling a cease fire.

[jackz]

It appears just the reality of the no fly zone has caused Libya to change directions.

Too bad it did not take effect weeks ago as Sen John McCain had suggested. Many lives could have been saved.

[skyguy79]

Originally Posted by jackz

It appears just the reality of the no fly zone has caused Libya to change directions.

Too bad it did not take effect weeks ago as Sen John McCain had suggested. Many lives could have been saved.

Agreed! But at least the UN did, for a change, do the right thing without endless waffling!

[ducati1974]

Skyguy79- I wasn't necessarily suggesting that other Muslim nations be the enforcers, there are plenty of other European, African, and Asian nations that could have handled this. I just resent that we, who are an ocean away, always have to take the lead and usually take the heat and resentment from other nations for having done so.
Thanks for the dialogue, we can all learn from each other!

[rubicon]

In my humble opinion it took the UN, NATO , Arab League and Obama too long to make this decision. Obama tried to hide behind internationalism which
has been a disaster from its inception. Its all about the polls for him The pivotal issue here is , is it in the USA's best interests to get involved. Clearly we should place grater pressire on Libya and make their leaders understand the pressure that will come on them if they conti nue to slaughter innocent people. However I would agree we need short term and long term objectives. I have never objected up to this point the decision by the president to enter conflicts. However I have objected on how they decided to exit. It is my view that strtegically acting as an international policeman we continue to see the need to update our military defense strategies and weapons. finally if we truly believe in democracy we cannot turn away. I only hope the decision to advance our interests are not too late

[waynet]

Lets see,since 1945 we have been in Korea,Viet Nam,Iraq twice,Afghanistan and probably a few other places I forgot. All were failures except Iraq 1 when we had international support. To say that internationalism is a failure is just not true. To place blame on Obama or anyone who is President at this time is also wrong. We are in unchartered waters. Too many times we have supported the wrong side. I say doing nothing is better than doing something just to do it. As a country we must find ways to serve our public interests that do not include war. Most of the time war does not work.

[rubicon]

Do you suppose the families of those killed before we involved ourselves, survived during and after we fought would believe that America's sacriface was wasted? Do you suppose no decision is really better than an affirmative decision that had been discussed and debated by the best minds in the country with the deciding factors resting on a sort of benefits/cost scenario? Far too long many pols, primarily those on the left fear risk of loss of relection that over rides clear thinking concerning our security which is tantamount to being poor chess players. War is ugly and war is not fair but war is a reality of the human experience and we have a moral obligation to fight tyranny. Finally I am one that is not willing to rely on he UN council to determine our destiny. My reference to internationalism was direct specifically to the Libya situation only. I could go on but to what avil

[Hancle704]

Originally Posted by skyguy79

can you just imagine the reaction that would occur if one muslum nation took military action against another muslim nation, as being suggested or implied here? All hell would most likely break out and would pose a high probability of trigger a catostropic WWIII!

When Iraq invaded Kuwait did all hell break out?

I believe the Arab League is comprised of several Muslim Countries so their intervention would not be one country against another.

I think there is more here than Muslim vs Muslim. Maybe Sunni vs Sh'ite is an issue.

What countries are most vulnerable to a crazy like Gadhafi or a Iran with a nuclear capability with another crazy leader, and what military capabilities do they possess?

The fact that both McCain and Kerry both rushed to state support for creation of a no fly zone worries me.

Finally, I think Mr. Obama was prudent to wait and see what the UN and other countries were willing to do. The USA is not the only country with military capabilities or at risk.

[waynet]

what security was threatened by North Korea,Viet Nam,Iraq,Afghanistan? Our country has been at war more than all others combined. Why? Are we that threatened by these places or is it more. Might it have more to do with our military industrial complex rather than fighting that mean tyranny stuff? As far as those who died I stiil have not forgiven our leaders for the 58,000 who died in Viet Nam.I will say it again we must find a better way to defend what we see as our interests without going to war everytime we feel threatened. There is a time for armed response not just everytime.

[Hancle704]

Originally Posted by waynet

Why? Are we that threatened by these places or is it more. Might it have more to do with our military industrial complex rather than fighting that mean tyranny stuff? There is a time for armed response not just everytime.

Maybe it's about military industrial comples or about oil and not our national security. Perhaps we should take a lesson from the Scandinavian Countries and Switzerland. Strong borders and defensive capability and the ability to launch a massive retailiation if attacked.

If the Middle East is all about oil, then this is the time for our leaders to finally fess up and deal with the problem. Let's explore and develop in the US where we suspect these resources are. Let's do it with American workers (create more jobs) and use equipment made in America to do it. Let's drill in ANWR and finally become less independent on foreign oil. Let us also tie foods for export, to OPEC prices for oil and eliminate subsidies.

While we are at it, when we read we have the highest corporate tax rates in the world and find that many corporations with headquarters in a mail box in some zero tax country pay little or no US tax, it's a hollow argument. Let's revise our entire tax code and implement a Fair Tax system for all.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm tired of all the pretense and self interest that seems to dictate everything in the country.

[ducati1974]

I agree with Hancle74, but lets keep moving toward hybrids, natural gas, and other alternative fuels- thats the way to really get out from under this reliance.