OK, the credit rating agencies and the financial markets aren't waiting around for the Republicans and Democrats to "make nice" and do what they were elected to do. Here's the expected announcement that the pristine credit rating of debt securities issued by the U.S. Treasury are about to be downgraded.

http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2011...ble-downgrade/

Next steps after that?

• Interest rates on government bonds will skyrocket, making the deficit and national debt even larger.

• Both the stock market and bond markets will crash. This could really be bad. I'm guessing a decline of at least 25%.

• Our fragile economy will grind to a near halt. Unemployment will skyrocket, housing prices will decline even further, consumer confidence will reach historic lows.

• There's a good chance that those who have been buying our debt--mostly China, Japan and Saudi Arabia--will reduce their credit exposure to the U.S. by buying less of our bonds and bills. The Treasury rolls over about $100 billion of our debt each week, so our interest expense will increase very quickly. And if the buyers of our debt slow their purchases, our inability to fund government spending will become apparent very, very quickly.

What's so maddening is that the elected politicians of both parties drove us right over this cliff. Even though the President proposed a package of $4 trillion in reduced government borrowing, made up of $3 in spending cuts for every $1 in revenue increases, neither party would budge from the ideological roots of their base constituents.

As I said in another post, there is a third party in these debt negotiations--the capital markets. And they don't give a damn about political ideologies or political bases. It's going to be interesting to watch, as Americans experience significant pain, the fragile economy grinds to a stop, and government services simply disappear, how the politicians try to blame each other for causing it to happen.

Time for the old, rope, tree, politican game. LOL No SS, No military retirement, no Federal retirement, ec, etc. When I get an IOU, guess who else gets an IOU. That's right all the folks that I owe money to. Hope that the mortgage company like those little IOU as much as I do. *S* What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Time to hunker down, civil unrest will be right around the corner. Turn off my water, lights, etc, the war is on.

The sad thing is that both the Dems and Repubs are lying to us. These proposed 4 trillion dollar deals are over 10 years.. that is means IF and they wont.. but if those were true cuts, the deficit continues to grow... and grow..
It cannot be solved, until the budget is frozen, and they reduce the budget an additional $300 billion each year until the budget is balanced.. and then we must begin paying off the 14.3 trillion debt.
It will never happen because that means the federal budget must be reduced by 40%..
JJ

Originally Posted by JimJoe

The sad thing is that both the Dems and Repubs are lying to us. These proposed 4 trillion dollar deals are over 10 years.. that is means IF and they wont.. but if those were true cuts, the deficit continues to grow... and grow..
It cannot be solved, until the budget is frozen, and they reduce the budget an additional $300 billion each year until the budget is balanced.. and then we must begin paying off the 14.3 trillion debt.
It will never happen because that means the federal budget must be reduced by 40%..
JJ

You're right JJ. Even if the most aggressive proposal mentioned so far--a $4 trillion reduction in the deficit over ten years--the national debt would still increase by about $6 trillion over that period.

Beyond that, all that people want to talk about is the $14+ trillion national debt. That number represents borrowed money, but it does not include any of the unfunded liabilities of the country (for Social Security, Medicare, the prescription drug plan, Medicaid, etc.). If you add in the unfunded liabilities our actual debt is about $54 trillion. That's more than four times our gross domestic product. Put another way, if our deficit spending were simply stopped right now, everyone in the country--people, companies, everyone--would have to work for more than four years with all their pay going to the government just to pay off our existing debt!

I guess I'm just flabbergasted that so many people--many here on this forum--simply refuse to recognize the dire circumstances we face and continue to want to make this a political or ideological argument. It's not that at all--it's simply arithmetic!

The one who doesn't care about the dire consequences is President Obama who is still spouting demagogic rhetoric to scare the old and infirm.

Balanced Budget Amendment, then we can discuss immediate massive spending cuts that are higher than any debt ceiling increase.

The dog and pony show has gotta end. The Obama Democrat misinformation has gotta stop. We won't be bullied.

Richie,please stop the nonsense. The blamegame is tiring.

Full Faith and Credit Act



http://mcclintock.house.gov/2011/01/...he-house.shtml



This bill was introduced way back in January by forward-thinking Republicans in the House and Senate who said if the debt ceiling isn’t raised, the Treasury Secretary should pay principal and interest on the debt first, avoiding a default. Of course, Harry Reid blocked it in the Senate, and Obama said he would veto it.

What I find amusing is that Moody’s is saying if the U.S. does not take on more debt, it will downgrade us. Can you imagine if I told a credit card company I can’t make the payment, but if they’d lend me more money with which to make the payment I’d be a better credit risk?

Originally Posted by waynet

Richie,please stop the nonsense. The blamegame is tiring.

Ha!; you're blaming everybody but Obama. Cut the cr*p.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Ha!; you're blaming everybody but Obama. Cut the cr*p.

No, for the time being I'm blaming two terms of the George Bush administration with a Republican Congress. Those were the years when we got a running start on the deficit spending and the national debt that we're facing down now.

Barack Obama hasn't done much to slow the pace of spending during his two years as President and if he doesn't, five years from now we'll have forgotten George Bush and we'll be blaming Obama. But for now, Richie, this is mostly a George Bush and GOP-made problem. Those are the unavoidable facts, regardless of your political ideology.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

No, for the time being I'm blaming two terms of the George Bush administration with a Republican Congress. Those were the years when we got a running start on the deficit spending and the national debt that we're facing down now.

Barack Obama hasn't done much to slow the pace of spending during his two years as President and if he doesn't, five years from now we'll have forgotten George Bush and we'll be blaming Obama. But for now, Richie, this is mostly a George Bush and GOP-made problem. Those are the unavoidable facts, regardless of your political ideology.

So much misinformation all I can say is "bull dingies" Nobody believe that cr*p anymore but you dyed in the wool leftist apologists.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

So much misinformation all I can say is "bull dingies" Nobody believe that cr*p anymore but you dyed in the wool leftist apologists.

But you never come up with any information to counter what you call misinformation. When presented with historical facts, you get brain cramps...or try to somehow write revisionist history!

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

But you never come up with any information to counter what you call misinformation. When presented with historical facts, you get brain cramps...or try to somehow write revisionist history!

On two different posts on this board recently I have listed specific cut proposed by the Republicans and the fact that Obama has driven spending to 24% plus of GDP from its historic level of 18-19%. I've presented REAL data and you blather on about 'revisionist history.' Go look at the data, find the specific cuts proposed by Obama (I'll save you time, there are none) and try to come to grips, difficult for a Dumbocrat, that this country is being destroyed by Obama and his blindly loyal followers.

On a side note, I suggest you get honest and change your signature to what you honest profess, "Never vote for a conservative."

Originally Posted by BBQMan

On two different posts on this board recently I have listed specific cut proposed by the Republicans and the fact that Obama has driven spending to 24% plus of GDP from its historic level of 18-19%. I've presented REAL data and you blather on about 'revisionist history.' Go look at the data, find the specific cuts proposed by Obama (I'll save you time, there are none) and try to come to grips, difficult for a Dumbocrat, that this country is being destroyed by Obama and his blindly loyal followers.

On a side note, I suggest you get honest and change your signature to what you honest profess, "Never vote for a conservative."

Hallelujah, and a hearty Amen. I'm a little weary myself from those who demand specifics over and over and offer none themselves. All they offer is blind allegiance to "The One".

I also have given specifics on the other threads. I hate to keep repeating myself, especially when I know they've been read by these same people.

Richie: The way I look at it is as follows..

If the Democrats, according to their historical rhetoric, had their way, they would try to eliminate the deficit with tax hikes on "the rich" with a liberal definition of "rich".

Given that Obama has come across with cuts to Medicare and other entitlement programs, that shows me a spirit of compromise.

The Republicans would like to cut the deficit entire through spending cuts. They haven't budged an inch.

So the classic example of one versus the other is that the Republicans want to cut programs for the poor and save tax havens for the rich while the middle class gets squeezed yet again.

This is why I seem to be backing the Democrats. I'm not happy with them by any stretch of the imagination. I don't believe in their base plank of government solutions. But in the past years, when a Democrat has been in the White House, they've moved to the center. The GOP, on the other hand, has moved more towards the right. Ronald Reagan would be a centrist Democrat by today's standards.

Originally Posted by djplong

Richie: The way I look at it is as follows..

If the Democrats, according to their historical rhetoric, had their way, they would try to eliminate the deficit with tax hikes on "the rich" with a liberal definition of "rich".

Given that Obama has come across with cuts to Medicare and other entitlement programs, that shows me a spirit of compromise.

The Republicans would like to cut the deficit entire through spending cuts. They haven't budged an inch.

So the classic example of one versus the other is that the Republicans want to cut programs for the poor and save tax havens for the rich while the middle class gets squeezed yet again.

This is why I seem to be backing the Democrats. I'm not happy with them by any stretch of the imagination. I don't believe in their base plank of government solutions. But in the past years, when a Democrat has been in the White House, they've moved to the center. The GOP, on the other hand, has moved more towards the right. Ronald Reagan would be a centrist Democrat by today's standards.

Obama has not offered one specific of what he would be willing to cut immediately and I'm tired of all the libs acting as if he has. It's total misinformation. All his proposed non-specific cuts are maybe 10 years or so down the line, where they will be voided if I know my history. It's all Democrat BS.

We need immediate cuts greater than an deficit ceiling increase with an immediate vote on a Federal Balanced Budget Amendment. That's the way to get our AAA Credit Rating.

If you go to the bank an say "I'm crazy over my head in debt"; are they more likely to help you if you say "I'm not going to change my ways, but a new loan will help me out for a while", or "I'm cutting my superfluous spending and vowing to live within my means while I pay down my debt, but I could use some temporary leeway". It ain't that complicated.