Our ancestors fled England to escape the laws and superstitions of the Church of England. We must be careful as many here are trying to put the religious fanatics of America in charge. Their is very little difference between the Muslims and the Christians when it comes to the haves and have not. The Muslims will kill you quick, but the Christians will enslave you with poverty and hard labor for little wage. I love small Church congregations for what they stand for and what they do, but you must beware of organizations like those in Rome. Some try to simplify the problems into BIG GOVERNMENT. I say beware of BIG CHURCH POWER.

Originally Posted by The Villager II

Our ancestors fled England to escape the laws and superstitions of the Church of England. We must be careful as many here are trying to put the religious fanatics of America in charge. Their is very little difference between the Muslims and the Christians when it comes to the haves and have not. The Muslims will kill you quick, but the Christians will enslave you with poverty and hard labor for little wage. I love small Church congregations for what they stand for and what they do, but you must beware of organizations like those in Rome. Some try to simplify the problems into BIG GOVERNMENT. I say beware of BIG CHURCH POWER.

I agree with you. Having gone to BYU Law School for ten days back in or so in 1982 where attending church was mandatory as were no premarital sex, no coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no caffeinated drinks.... Not sure how closely these rules were actually followed having known a lot of Jack Mormons at the University of Nevada, Reno. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mormon

If you think government is big under Obama, just wait and see what happens if some religious fanatic gets control. Very unlikely though that this will happen. It could, but a lot of other things would have to also occur.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I agree with you. Having gone to BYU Law School for ten days back in or so in 1982 where attending church was mandatory as were no premarital sex, no coffee, no tea, no alcohol, no caffeinated drinks.... Not sure how closely these rules were actually followed having known a lot of Jack Mormons at the University of Nevada, Reno. Jack Mormon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If you think government is big under Obama, just wait and see what happens if some religious fanatic gets control. Very unlikely though that this will happen. It could, but a lot of other things would have to also occur.

I still don't understand how religions fighting to maintain their Constitutional Rights is a danger to our country.

The rules you had in college were rules you accepted in order to attend. You've could have gone to any State or Community college and had no such rules.

This is a case of the Church trying to retain it rights, and of the State trying to take them away. This is the State attempting to impose it's will over the religious freedoms of the Church.

How did this conversation about this issue on this forum get turned 180 degrees around?

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I still don't understand how religions fighting to maintain their Constitutional Rights is a danger to our country.

The rules you had in college were rules you accepted in order to attend. You've could have gone to any State or Community college and had no such rules.

This is a case of the Church trying to retain it rights, and of the State trying to take them away. This is the State attempting to impose it's will over the religious freedoms of the Church.

How did this conversation about this issue on this forum get turned 180 degrees around?

Well, Richie, then you agree that a large, ornate Muslim mosque could be built on Muslim owned property right next to Ground Zero in NYC and you would defend their right to do so?

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I still don't understand how religions fighting to maintain their Constitutional Rights is a danger to our country.

The rules you had in college were rules you accepted in order to attend. You've could have gone to any State or Community college and had no such rules.

This is a case of the Church trying to retain it rights, and of the State trying to take them away. This is the State attempting to impose it's will over the religious freedoms of the Church.

How did this conversation about this issue on this forum get turned 180 degrees around?

I dropped out of BYU and did go to a public law school (U of MN) with no such rules which was rather opposite in its liberal adversity to religions. Before law school, I went to a private Methodist school-- Denver University-- which had almost no rules and very little religion that I could see.

Which religious rights do you mean? Usually this issue comes down to abortion; unless I am missing something.

"In God We Trust" is on the US coins.

Prayers in schools?

Creationism taught in public schools?

Christmas trees in public libraries, schools, etc?

Believe that the dying declaration is still used in evidence. Which is that a person will tell the truth if he or she is about to meet God.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Well, Richie, then you agree that a large, ornate Muslim mosque could be built on Muslim owned property right next to Ground Zero in NYC and you would defend their right to do so?

Your analogy is apples and oranges.

That's not a religious rights issue. It's not Freedom of Religion that gives a church the right to build a church or mosque on any land it chooses.

Even a church would have to abide by zoning laws and OHSA safety laws, and wetlands regulations, etc., etc.

In the case in NY there is evidence that the money to build this mosque is connected to people and organizations with suspected terrorist affiliations.

Whatever is decided, it's not a religious freedom issue.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I still don't understand how religions fighting to maintain their Constitutional Rights is a danger to our country.

The rules you had in college were rules you accepted in order to attend. You've could have gone to any State or Community college and had no such rules.

This is a case of the Church trying to retain it rights, and of the State trying to take them away. This is the State attempting to impose it's will over the religious freedoms of the Church.

How did this conversation about this issue on this forum get turned 180 degrees around?

Rchielion you have the patience of St Job....Oh can I say St Job? One can measure the affect of the damage a godless society is having on society by viewing various television programs. My concern is that this hedonistic and uncivilized behavior will continue to leach out into the streets. and to think that these people are able to breed.

Originally Posted by buggyone

Well, Richie, then you agree that a large, ornate Muslim mosque could be built on Muslim owned property right next to Ground Zero in NYC and you would defend their right to do so?

Forget Ground Zero. I'm going to talk to Janet Tutt tomorrow about where my group of Muslims can meet here in TV, with the possibility of building a large ornate mosque someday. Anybody want to go with me?

Ya'll are fiddlin while Rome is burning. These issues don't amount to squat in this Presidential race. Don't get side tracked. We are spending our way to Hell and chop suey. (brought that religious location in to add something to the government vs religion thing)

Originally Posted by RichieLion

I still don't understand how religions fighting to maintain their Constitutional Rights is a danger to our country.

The rules you had in college were rules you accepted in order to attend. You've could have gone to any State or Community college and had no such rules.

This is a case of the Church trying to retain it rights, and of the State trying to take them away. This is the State attempting to impose it's will over the religious freedoms of the Church.

How did this conversation about this issue on this forum get turned 180 degrees around?

My sentiments exactly. Why would any woman become a catholic, stay a catholic, or think about becoming a catholic if she wanted to use birth control? You wouldn't become a Jehovah's Witness if you needed a blood transfusion. You wouldn't become a Jew if you loved pork. You wouldn't become a Christian Scientist if you needed medical care.

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

I dropped out of BYU and did go to a public law school (U of MN) with no such rules which was rather opposite in its liberal adversity to religions. Before law school, I went to a private Methodist school-- Denver University-- which had almost no rules and very little religion that I could see.

Which religious rights do you mean? Usually this issue comes down to abortion; unless I am missing something.

"In God We Trust" is on the US coins.

Prayers in schools?

Creationism taught in public schools?

Christmas trees in public libraries, schools, etc?

Believe that the dying declaration is still used in evidence. Which is that a person will tell the truth if he or she is about to meet God.

It's pretty simple and forthright Taltarzac. The State wants the Church to provide something to it's students that is against it's teachings and tenets.

Originally Posted by rubicon

Rchielion you have the patience of St Job....Oh can I say St Job? One can measure the affect of the damage a godless society is having on society by viewing various television programs. My concern is that this hedonistic and uncivilized behavior will continue to leach out into the streets. and to think that these people are able to breed.

Thanks Rubicon. I just figure I'll explain the truth of this debate no matter how many times others want to cloud the issue.

It's a simple matter of the United States Constitution. It's a beautiful thing.

Just please remember that our ancestors fled Europe to free themselves from Religious domination and our constitution was written clearly to keep us from that happening here. The Catholic church is attempting to drive a wedge between the Constitution and the American People. I would like to know how the Jews, Muslims and normal Christians that work in and for these hospitals etc. feel when the church dictates their medical needs.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

It's pretty simple and forthright Taltarzac. The State wants the Church to provide something to it's students that is against it's teachings and tenets.

So this is back to the Sandra Fluke matter? Georgetown is a catholic school which should not provide contraceptives to its students??

Religious freedom is my mind covers a great deal more than that rather minor matter. Looks like something the Republicans should have left alone in an election year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

So this is back to the Sandra Fluke matter? Georgetown is a catholic school which should not provide contraceptives to its students??

Religious freedom is my mind covers a great deal more than that rather minor matter. Looks like something the Republicans should have left alone in an election year.

Freedom of religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Someone needs to stand up for the Catholic Church's rights to practice their religion without government interference. It's the right thing to do.

Those that would deny Freedom of Religion rights to the Catholic Church are Un-American, as are those who turn their backs on the Church's fight to retain their Constitutional Rights.

The Founder's fought to create a free nation for much more than to escape the Church of England. But, it was that experience that was the impetus to our First Amendment Rights of Freedom of Religion.

If you are fleeing religious persecution you should be firmly in the corner of the struggle of the Catholic Church to retain their rights to their beliefs without the interference of the Government.

If you are not, you don't understand the issue.