If one looks at the governments track record/results for two very large entities that they run...Amtrak and the USPS.

Both have been losing billions per year for years. What ever gets said or done to get these businesses in the black?

Absolutely nothing. They are both political footballs in the game of vote retention. After all who in an elected position would even think about demanding whatever needs to be done to get these businesses to at least break even? Not a single one to date. They are both excellent examples of across the aisle cooperation when they want it to be.

And now the USPS is approaching a point where they may need to file for bankruptcy. Really. Seeking protection from their creditors (which is the US government born by us the taxpayers)...really.

Already they have reached a consensus to pour more money into the USPS to let it carry on for a few more months until _ _ ? _ _.

Do you see a pattern here? No budget....pour in some money to keep things afloat for a few months until we can decide to _ _ ? _ _.

Should these two losers, that for years were purported to be just around the corner from profitability (another internal political joke) be a warning to those of you who think the US Government can pull off the proposed Obamacare without taking the taxpayer, again, down the drain? No plan! No knowledge of what the costs are. But we are already implementing it and hiring more government workers to get ready for _ _ ? _ _.

If you do not see a pattern here, please by all means tell me why it is OK for the government run businesses to continue to lose billions and billions with no requirement to fix it. And why they should be allowed to proceed with Obamacare given their track record of FAILURE.

Once again I await enlightenment with a palpitating heart beat!!

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

If one looks at the governments track record/results for two very large entities that they run...Amtrak and the USPS.

Both have been losing billions per year for years. What ever gets said or done to get these businesses in the black?

Absolutely nothing. They are both political footballs in the game of vote retention. After all who in an elected position would even think about demanding whatever needs to be done to get these businesses to at least break even? Not a single one to date. They are both excellent examples of across the aisle cooperation when they want it to be.

And now the USPS is approaching a point where they may need to file for bankruptcy. Really. Seeking protection from their creditors (which is the US government born by us the taxpayers)...really.

Already they have reached a consensus to pour more money into the USPS to let it carry on for a few more months until _ _ ? _ _.

Do you see a pattern here? No budget....pour in some money to keep things afloat for a few months until we can decide to _ _ ? _ _.

Should these two losers, that for years were purported to be just around the corner from profitability (another internal political joke) be a warning to those of you who think the US Government can pull off the proposed Obamacare without taking the taxpayer, again, down the drain? No plan! No knowledge of what the costs are. But we are already implementing it and hiring more government workers to get ready for _ _ ? _ _.

If you do not see a pattern here, please by all means tell me why it is OK for the government run businesses to continue to lose billions and billions with no requirement to fix it. And why they should be allowed to proceed with Obamacare given their track record of FAILURE.

Once again I await enlightenment with a palpitating heart beat!!

btk

There are some things that government can and must do, running a profitable and efficient business in not one of those thing.

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

There are some things that government can and must do, running a profitable and efficient business in not one of those thing.

Why not expect government to run a required business as BREAK-EVEN and efficient????

What is so terrible about expecting them to break even on income/expenses?

Really break even on /income/expenses. Then there would be no way for the USPS to give huge bonuses and great retirement packages to the workers. Until that is fixed there is no way any government run program will even come close to breaking even.

We could add the EPA Energy Department, Department of Education, etc etc etc. We could also use as example of poorly managed Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Fannie Freddie just about any of their programs. The reasons as simple

1. Government doesn't need to make a profit they have your tax money

2. Congress votes on issues based on securing votes ,bribes, boondoggles, favors

3. Congress has a short attention span and once they implement a program it is forgotten unless or until their is a crisis, a crisis by the way created by their incompetence.

There is so much abuse and fraud in many programs but it won't be stopped because of the political process.

Take the food stamp program. Republican want the fraud stopped but the liberals spin it as those greedy white guys want to take food out of the mouths of the starving.

Folks we can't have it both ways. You choose

Bill, there are two problems with your premise.

1) The government does not 'run' the USPS. The USPS is a private corporation that operates under government oversight. No tax dollars had subsidized the USPS since the 1970s when the break was made.

2) Amtrak does not lose "billions per year". The largest one-year subsidy they ever got was $1.4B.

Figmo: What "huge bonuses" are you talking about? My ex-wife has been working for the USPS for quite a few years and she's got some horror stories but none involve huge bonuses. As far as retirement, they get something similar to a 401K (called a "TSP"), only not as flexible, but they have to contribute to it for it to be any good. The one thing they DO still have is a pension system that will allow them to get 1% of their income per year of service (like any civil servant gets). This was FDR's original "three legs" to support elderly retirement - Social Security, pension, and personal savings (TSP/401k)

thanks Dip for clearing up some misconceptions. Too many posters blurt stuff out that has no basis in fact.

a largest "one year subsidy" does not define whether the losses were $1 or $1 billion....it merely states how much more they got.

They are under the control of the government. And how many private enterprises do you know that would continue to run in the red by billions with no requirement to improve?

Misconceptions. Yes some people are confused by reality.

Dept. of Energy formed under Jimmy Carter to drive the country toward energy independence and eliminate ever waiting inline for gas from foreign oil. Since being formed it now employs hundreds of thousands of people. We have doubled the amount of foreign oil that we are dependent upon. There are no programs this organization can pursue unless approved by congress and the POTUS....who have not approved anything for them to work on. This one does not have to show a profit. All it has to do is exist and burn money at a ate faster than can be printed.

Government jobs accomplishing nothing on your dime.

Misconception. Not hardly.

btk

I'm a big fan of the Auto Train. I had "heard" it was the only profitable route. Can't find that fact in this read. Some interesting numbers here though and good argument for change.

Privatizing Amtrak | Downsizing the Federal Government

Originally Posted by waynet

thanks Dip for clearing up some misconceptions. Too many posters blurt stuff out that has no basis in fact.

Perhaps these bonuses.....thankfully they cut them off this year HOWEVER...

"As the U.S. Postal Service was careening toward a record $8.5 billion loss in 2010, it was paying more than three dozen top executives and officers salaries and bonuses exceeding that of Cabinet secretaries — almost triple the number who were in that category only a year before, according to newly disclosed figures.

Since executive salaries were frozen in 2010, the jump in the number of executives earning more than Cabinet secretaries was the result of performance-based bonuses.

Last week, Postmaster General Patrick Donahoe defended the bonuses, saying they were awarded under the agency's pay-for-performance system after several years of no salary changes."

38 postal execs earn more than Cabinet members - FederalTimes.com

So Figmo was not far off and thankfully they have now reversed.

Originally Posted by djplong

Bill, there are two problems with your premise.

1) The government does not 'run' the USPS. The USPS is a private corporation that operates under government oversight. No tax dollars had subsidized the USPS since the 1970s when the break was made.
.........

I disagree with this above.

The Role of Congress

Of related significance is the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006 (PAEA), which obligates the USPS to prefund 75-years worth of future health care benefit payments to retirees within a ten-year time span — a requirement to which no other government organization is subject.

Thus, in addition to the weak economy and the diversion of mail to electronic means, the mandates of PAEA have had a considerable impact on Postal Service finances. As a consequence, it has been charged that the US Postal Service budget crisis of 2011 is, in essence, an artificial one.[28][33][34][35]

Congress also has the ability to affect the USPS budget by changing rates for postage.[36]

ilovetv - that was my point about them operating under government oversight.

And about Amtrak's profitable routes. I'm a huge railfan and the Auto-Train does, indeed, make a profit. Also, the Northeast Corridor makes a profit. Beyond that, there are a couple of routes that make an OPERATIONAL profit but not a bottom line profit when you include amortized capital costs.

but bottom line profit is the measure of + or -........

btk