[Golfingnut]

I am a gun owner that wants stricter and enforced regulations on ownership. While thinking about the point of the NRA it reminded me of the quest of folks in support of the Snail Darter that was clearly a bad decision for mankind. None the less, the Snail Darter survived and Mankind lost in the battle by the TVA to improve the life style of the majority. Following this logic, the NRA will most likely win this one. This fight has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment in my opinion, it has to do with the individual deciding what is in his/her best interest rather that be in agreement with the majority or NOT. Look at some cases of eminent Domain filed and won by the government. Most of the time when you call it eminent domain, the government wins for the majority. I just don't know the right course to take in the gun debate, but I very strongly believe we must visit and discuss Gun Control without using the B word that ends in N.
Can we all agree that there are some Americans that have the second amendment rights that should not own a gun of any kind? Lets start there.

[graciegirl]

I think we all approach this topic from our own life experiences and have very diverse views on it.

I know that this thread is bound for extinction because people are very passionate about this topic.

We all have to think and act according to our own concience and respect others views similarly.

Please let's not fight. It will not change anyone's view. Before we post try to decide if it will change anyone's mind or just make them mad.

We just cannot change many people's minds about this issue, one way or another, I believe THAT in my heart and I believe that both sides think that they are morally right.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Golfingnut

Can we all agree that there are some Americans that have the second amendment rights that should not own a gun of any kind? Lets start there.

That's true that there are people who should never own a gun. Access to them though for them is a much more trickier proposition considering how many people in the US already own guns of some kind. Education about gun storage and the like might be a great benefit from this debate. With respect to the Sandy Hook shootigs, for instance, Adam Lanza should never had any kind of access to his mother's guns considering how volatile he sounds to have been.

[JoeC1947]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think we all approach this topic from our own life experiences and have very diverse views on it.

I know that this thread is bound for extinction because people are very passionate about this topic.

We all have to think and act according to our own concience and respect others views similarly.

Please let's not fight. It will not change anyone's view. Before we post try to decide if it will change anyone's mind or just make them mad.

We just cannot change many people's minds about this issue, one way or another, I believe THAT in my heart and I believe that both sides think that they are morally right.

Gracie is right again. Agree to disagree. GG, you are wise beyond your years!

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

That's true that there are people who should never own a gun. Access to them though for them is a much more trickier proposition considering how many people in the US already own guns of some kind. Education about gun storage and the like might be a great benefit from this debate. With respect to the Sandy Hook shootigs, for instance, Adam Lanza should never had any kind of access to his mother's guns considering how volatile he sounds to have been.

Great point, if she would have had the forethought to lock em up, he MAY not have ----------------. Education on gun safety would make a big difference. Too often we find ourselves saying WELL I NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT WOULD HAPPEN. Education would for sure help with that.

[Golfingnut]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I think we all approach this topic from our own life experiences and have very diverse views on it.

I know that this thread is bound for extinction because people are very passionate about this topic.

We all have to think and act according to our own concience and respect others views similarly.

Please let's not fight. It will not change anyone's view. Before we post try to decide if it will change anyone's mind or just make them mad.

We just cannot change many people's minds about this issue, one way or another, I believe THAT in my heart and I believe that both sides think that they are morally right.

Your very right Gracie, but I feel I must at least try to do something. Banning guns will not stop the violence. I would like to see the ones that look like m-16 that I used to kill in Viet Nam go away, but again, that would not stop the violence, just take a little macho out of the look. Maybe if we made all guns PINK in color, they would still kill, but may help with the idiot Rambo actions we continue to have. I just don't have a good answer.

[Monkei]

Let's close the thread down now because I, as a responsible gun owner and a licensed carry permit owner will never understand why there are fellow gun owners who can't see a need for sensible controls on weapons of war in the hands of the citizenry.

[billethkid]

many years ago I dropped out of the NRA because of their position on automatic rifles (military like capability).

I understand their position that a foot in the door with ANY control is a beginning of more to come. I believed then and I believe now the NRA has more to gain by facing the reality on "select" issues.

When all gets said and done again we will see that none of the so called history making moves by the president will have any affect on the violence that is not resident in the guns being used. The people who have other than adhering to the laws of the land are not going to be affected one bit by the political and emotional jousting on this subject.

Trying to make sure the wrong person does not get to buy a gun does not mean they will not get a gun.

Trying to make sure a wrong type person does not get a gun will be no more effective than to make sure a person who should not get a driver's license does not get one.

Just wait until the list of those exempted from the new requirements starts to form. You know the list of those who might be offended by being refused....even though the refusal is legitimate per the new regs.

Speeches and arm waving do not resolve problems.

As a related subject it is note worthy to watch and listen as everybody tip toes around how to make sure the nut jobs don't get a gun.

As far as any regularions to "control" ammunition or the guns some of us already have in our possession all I can say is......GOOD LUCK on that pipe dream!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now just like the oil industry, gun and ammunition manufacturers and retailers are enjoying notorious profotability by simply gouging a panicking segment of Americans.

btk

[ijusluvit]

As hopeless as it seems for there to be agreement about gun control in America, I think there are some RIGHTS and some WRONGS which are are embedded here.

1) It is RIGHT that we can bear arms, but that RIGHT is clarified and applied to our lives by the RIGHT of majority rule. The vast majority is satisfied with government prohibition of private possession of chemical weapons, some high explosives, missiles etc. By that same logic, it is RIGHT for the majority to decide about the further limitations on weapons. Congress has the obligation to vote on weapons limit legislation according to the will of the majority of their constituents.

2) It is WRONG for Congressional voting to be decided as a result of bribery or any other form of personal pressure by lobbyists; or on the basis of publicity campaigns which falsely claim to represent the majority of citizens.

3) Numerous and continual incidents of gun violence have focused our nation's attention on taking some actions. There has been an undeniable shift in the majority view toward actions like those proposed by the President. As high as an 85% of citizens now endorse those actions.

I think that what is RIGHT and what is WRONG should determine how we act.

[OldDave]

I thought this thread would go away because it would quickly become loud and hate filled. Surprisingly it has done neither. I appreciate the very thoughtful comments that have been made. I especially like the comments about lobbyists deciding things and congress making deals that have nothing to do with the subject matter. I also liked Billy's Mark Twain quote. I have not heard that before. (Although Billy I have trouble every time you sign off btk. Having grown up in Wichita and lived 4 blocks away from one of the victims of the infamous btk killer, it makes me kind of shiver every time I see that. BUT, I see no reason for you to change. Just an unpleasant memory)

So, I'd like to toss in my 2 cents into this sane and meaningful discussion.

I'm not a gun person, never have been. Hunting doesn't appeal to me, I've never had the urge to shoot anything. As to home defense, I'd be one of those people who would shoot myself by accident of shoot the dog because I thought it was a burglar. Having said this, I don't mind that you want to have guns.

Shotguns and rifles for hunting if you like that sort of thing; handguns for your own self defense if you believe you need it, I don't think it's up to me to say you shouldn't have them. But we certainly need to be able to agree that assualt weapons are something we just don't need.

The NRA has used the "foot in the door" argument to stir people up for decades. I just don't think it's true, and I don't think they believe it either. The more excited people get the better for their fundraising and lobbying. They are first and foremost a lobbying group.

The people that have commented here are gun owners and supporters yet you've all said you think reason has a place in trying to reign in people who like to be able to kill dozens of people at once.

This thread gives me lots of hope. The fact that will need to be decided by a disfunctional congress that only cares about winning the next election and crushing the other party, doesn't so much.

[justjim]

Originally Posted by Monkei

Let's close the thread down now because I, as a responsible gun owner and a licensed carry permit owner will never understand why there are fellow gun owners who can't see a need for sensible controls on weapons of war in the hands of the citizenry.

I think there are more gun owners than you think Monkel---who believe and think like us! It's time for a little "common sense" in our Country not only on this issue but also on others.

[Suzi]

This whole Obama thing yesterday really bugs me. Its not that I agree or disagree with his plan but, again, its a band-aid on a larger, much larger, problem. I personally think he paid lip-service to the roots of the problem. We are going to STUDY whether violent videos, movies, etc CAN be an issue? Are you kidding? Who doesn't know that children should not be routinely exposed to such terrible violence that it becomes common place to them. Who doesn't know that mental illness, drug use, lack of decent parenting leads to apathy in our youth? Sure, take away assault weapons and everything will be dandy.

Back to band-aids on the real problems.

[ijusluvit]

Originally Posted by svgephart

This whole Obama thing yesterday really bugs me. Its not that I agree or disagree with his plan but, again, its a band-aid on a larger, much larger, problem. I personally think he paid lip-service to the roots of the problem. We are going to STUDY whether violent videos, movies, etc CAN be an issue? Are you kidding? Who doesn't know that children should not be routinely exposed to such terrible violence that it becomes common place to them. Who doesn't know that mental illness, drug use, lack of decent parenting leads to apathy in our youth? Sure, take away assault weapons and everything will be dandy.

Back to band-aids on the real problems.

I'm sorry you are so upset, but my question is: if you are the Congressman from your district, do you vote for something, (call it a band-aid if you wish), that is supported by between 55-85% of your constituents?

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by justjim

I think there are more gun owners than you think Monkel---who believe and think like us! It's time for a little "common sense" in our Country not only on this issue but also on others.

We shall see. It's going to be awfully hard to quantitate the results of the policies the president is proposing.

However, I would hate to be a senator or congressman who voted against such controls the next time one of these tragedies happen.

The trick is going to be getting our elected officials on record with a recorded in session vote. There is too much of this not bringing bills to the floor to be voted on and the cowards in Washington hide instead behind filibusters and non votes.

[janmcn]

Originally Posted by Monkei

We shall see. It's going to be awfully hard to quantitate the results of the policies the president is proposing.

However, I would hate to be a senator or congressman who voted against such controls the next time one of these tragedies happen.

The trick is going to be getting our elected officials on record with a recorded in session vote. There is too much of this not bringing bills to the floor to be voted on and the cowards in Washington hide instead behind filibusters and non votes.

You are absolutely correct that it's going to take courage to get anything meaningful accomplished by congress, something noticeably missing in Washington.

I contact my senator daily to find out where he stands on universal background checks for all gun buyers, but have yet to hear back except for an automated response. As the father of four young children, he should not want the blood of future dead children on his hands, but until he commits to take a stand on gun control, that's exactly what will happen.

As the president said (I'm paraphrasing here) if just one life is saved, the fight is worth it...especially to that one person whose life was saved.