[graciegirl]

I am clueless because I don't understand the latest changes that are happening in Egypt. Now over a hundred people have been killed and there is chaos on the streets in Cairo today.

Because the moderators might think this is political, perhaps you could send me a PM. I am interested in what many of you think about all this.

[JP]

Egypt, the Middle East, and in fact the whole Mediterranean is a mess that is not going to get any better forever. As time goes on the same problem is going to spread to Europe. You have a group of people who don't play well with others.

[Monkei]

I am not sure this "issue" is going to spread to Europe. The middle east is a totally different animal. Europe's issues are one of finance.

The real discouraging part of this Egyptian violence is that neither faction finds the US as favorable. It also shows us that democracy does not work in all countries like ours.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by bmarlo767

Morsi was certainly NOT one of "our" people. He was an active leader of the Muslim Brotherhood and the west was outmaneuvered by them in the elections. They were determined to put strict Muslim law in effect. That is what brought on this current chaos.

This is an interesting post. It reveals much about why America is disliked in so many places. The idea that "the west" has any right at all to play a role in the election of the Egyptian government by the Egyptian people bespeaks our national arrogance. We tout the importance of democracy, of the will of the people. But if the election goes in a way America doesn't like, it seems that we feel betrayed, blame the electorate for being uninformed or even ignorant, and too often we seem to play a role in overthrowing that elected government. This is not new to our national policy. Whether it was the Shah of Iran being placed on the peacock throne, or the will of the Chilean people being usurped with the CIA interventions that lead to a military dictatorship and Allende's death, America has intervened in "free elections" both before and after the voting too often. When Hamas won in Gaza, when Hezbollah won in Lebanon, when the Muslim Brotherhood won in Egypt these elections reflected not just the citizens' support for Islamic government, but also was a clear repudiation of the possibility of America telling them what to do.
So now in Egypt a democratically elected government which was opposed by the US has been overthrown in a military coup. Those new leaders, using weapons largely supplied by the US have brutally slaughtered their own citizens who were peacefully assembled in protest with the death toll near 300. There are no good guys in this story but clearly the people in charge in Egypt now have lost whatever moral authority they may have hoped to claim. And if the next election is a fair one I would expect that the Muslim Brotherhood will have a very successful day as nothing works so well to turn the unsure against the US supported leadership as a massacre.

[JP]

Originally Posted by Monkei

I am not sure this "issue" is going to spread to Europe. The middle east is a totally different animal. Europe's issues are one of finance.

The real discouraging part of this Egyptian violence is that neither faction finds the US as favorable. It also shows us that democracy does not work in all countries like ours.

I agree about democracy not working in all countries but if you look at the birth rates of different religions in Europe you will see that muslims are reproducing at a much faster rate than any other religion and will soon assume a majority status by numbers of people in much of Europe in the not so distant future. Majorities elect who and what they want.

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by JP

I agree about democracy not working in all countries but if you look at the birth rates of different religions in Europe you will see that muslims are reproducing at a much faster rate than any other religion and will soon assume a majority status by numbers of people in much of Europe in the not so distant future. Majorities elect who and what they want.

not all issues are muslim related. personally I don't see any problem with a muslim population electing a muslim. I don't mind if we elected a Christian or a Mormon, or even a muslim here in the US. What would bother me, however, if we became a theocracy.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by blueash

This is an interesting post. It reveals much about why America is disliked in so many places. The idea that "the west" has any right at all to play a role in the election of the Egyptian government by the Egyptian people bespeaks our national arrogance. We tout the importance of democracy, of the will of the people. But if the election goes in a way America doesn't like, it seems that we feel betrayed, blame the electorate for being uninformed or even ignorant, and too often we seem to play a role in overthrowing that elected government. This is not new to our national policy. Whether it was the Shah of Iran being placed on the peacock throne, or the will of the Chilean people being usurped with the CIA interventions that lead to a military dictatorship and Allende's death, America has intervened in "free elections" both before and after the voting too often. When Hamas won in Gaza, when Hezbollah won in Lebanon, when the Muslim Brotherhood won in Egypt these elections reflected not just the citizens' support for Islamic government, but also was a clear repudiation of the possibility of America telling them what to do.
So now in Egypt a democratically elected government which was opposed by the US has been overthrown in a military coup. Those new leaders, using weapons largely supplied by the US have brutally slaughtered their own citizens who were peacefully assembled in protest with the death toll near 300. There are no good guys in this story but clearly the people in charge in Egypt now have lost whatever moral authority they may have hoped to claim. And if the next election is a fair one I would expect that the Muslim Brotherhood will have a very successful day as nothing works so well to turn the unsure against the US supported leadership as a massacre.

"has been overthrown in a military coup."

If, as you suggest, but our government has not yet, this is a coup, then BY LAW of this country, we are to stop the 1.5 BILLION dollars given to that country of which almost all goes to the military.

If we do not call it a coup, then we financed it I suppose with that billions of dollars.

[janmcn]

President Obama will make a statement on the crisis in Egypt at 10:15 EDT. Stay tuned.

[Bucco]

We have cancelled a military exercise with Egypt and told them to play nice, or else !!

Cannot say more...opinions become politics so easy

[chachacha]

i fear democracy can only work in a country where Judeo-Christian principles of justice, fair play and acceptance of election results will be in place. there must be a moral concensus of the people before democracy can truly function as it should. perhaps we are in danger of losing our own democracy?

[Monkei]

Originally Posted by chachacha

i fear democracy can only work in a country where Judeo-Christian principles of justice, fair play and acceptance of election results will be in place. there must be a moral concensus of the people before democracy can truly function as it should. perhaps we are in danger of losing our own democracy?

Why would we be in danger?

[Taltarzac725]

Not sure if this is true about Judeo-Christian ethics . We had a lot of extremely serious problems with our own democracy like slavery, the treatment of the Indians, monopolies by many different business, lack of voting for women, racial discrimination of all kinds against blacks, native americans, Irish, German, Chinese, Catholics, etc. Most of these wrongs were done while the Judeo-Christian ethics were in place.

Islam does have a very strong ethical current of its own which is based on the Judeo-Christian religion to a very strong extent. Of course, the same kinds of problems with slavery, discrimination, genocide show up in their countries' histories as with those of the Western heritage countries.

[chachacha]

the reason i see us being in danger of losing our democracy is that there is evermore corruption in our public officials on both sides, the voters are often led by selfish motives instead of the good of the nation, and fraud at the voting booth denies the people of their true wishes. when morals decay, democracy cannot flourish. i see these problems on both sides of the political spectrum. the wrongs mentioned by Tal were overcome largely because of the ethics of the majority of the people...when the majority no longer has ethics, the democracy fails.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by chachacha

the reason i see us being in danger of losing our democracy is that there is evermore corruption in our public officials on both sides, the voters are often led by selfish motives instead of the good of the nation, and fraud at the voting booth denies the people of their true wishes. when morals decay, democracy cannot flourish. i see these problems on both sides of the political spectrum. the wrongs mentioned by Tal were overcome largely because of the ethics of the majority of the people...when the majority no longer has ethics, the democracy fails.

There is a lot to think about in what you just typed.

I know one thing Cha. You are a good person.

[DaleMN]

Going down in flames!! Or not.