[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

Are you saying that you would blindly turn in front of traffic heading at 45+ mph at you because the person behind has "put pressure on you"???? Hmmm.....

I don't think they are saying that at all. Many valid points here, for sure. But with all the accidents and complaints why isn't a traffic engineer out there assessing the issue? Nothing worse than trying to make a left across 2 or 3 on coming and that one inner lane blocks your view of safety....the median turns on 441 another prime example....
Hopefully the right people will read and respond to our needs.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by alanmcdonald

There have been at least three accidents at the intersection of 466a and Buena Vista this week, not to mention the fatal motorcycle accident recently.

The problem is the yellow left turn signals that permit left turns in a place where it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane.

Also, if you are in the left turn lane and do not try to turn on the yellow arrow the cars behind you start honking to get you to move.

What needs to happen to get the yellow arrows removed and red lights for the turn lanes when there is no green left turn arrow?

Yes, that is one example of a CONTROLLABLE and relatively inexpensive fix to the INFRASTRUCTURE. There is a nationwide RELUCTANCE to spend money on needed safety and infrastructure. (Did I hear someone think tax increase, OH, dear God, dear me?). This also reminds me of the unnecessary speeding by about 25% of the vehicles that I see going in front of my house - which I feel has increased in the last 3 years due to increased traffic or psychological attitude changes. I feel that a person that SPEEDS has the same aggressive ATTITUDE that would make them susceptible to NOT being aware of that mechanical, technical, traffic flow problem that this thread has HIGHLIGHTED.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Yes, that is one example of a CONTROLLABLE and relatively inexpensive fix to the INFRASTRUCTURE. There is a nationwide RELUCTANCE to spend money on needed safety and infrastructure. (Did I hear someone think tax increase, OH, dear God, dear me?). This also reminds me of the unnecessary speeding by about 25% of the vehicles that I see going in front of my house - which I feel has increased in the last 3 years due to increased traffic or psychological attitude changes. I feel that a person that SPEEDS has the same aggressive ATTITUDE that would make them susceptible to NOT being aware of that mechanical, technical, traffic flow problem that this thread has HIGHLIGHTED.

Alternatively, people could learn HOW TO DRIVE

[RPDaly]

///

[jimjamuser]

Someone said, "pick your poison". That leads to a "bigger picture" concept. The Poison is EITHER too many residents for the infrastructure or infrastructure too WEAK for the existing residents (in the winter). At this point, nothing can be done about the number of residents, which will likely only get GREATER in number as rentals increase and more baby boomers retire. So, the solution is to INCREASE and improve the infrastructure. The problem NEEDS to be solved as indicated by the deaths stated in the thread beginning.

I doubt that it can be solved without looking at a tax increase to pay for road structure improvement and lane increases. Also needed is less LAX enforcement of speeding and other aggressive driving practices. (Some people seem to drive like they have a death wish, maybe they all have terminal cancer, I doubt it) So, the problem solution (other than road improvements) seems to go back to having MORE Police hired (again $ and taxes) or some sort of increased camera POLICING equipment, either officers or equipment to video record aggressive violators. Which would be more cost effective?

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by VApeople

If a driver on 466A finds that "it is impossible to see the oncoming traffic due to it being blocked by cars in the left turn lane", they should not try to turn left onto Buena Vista.



Why is that a problem?

This time of year one NEEDS to TRY some route planning. Sometimes it is better to go a little longer way around, which has less traffic than take the obvious route that everyone else is taking. Also, there is the time of day planning. For example, just maybe, during the winter months, people going to restaurants COULD (?) try going at LUNCH instead of dinner. Worst of all would be an early dinner during the 4 to 5 PM rush hour.
......Also, a person could plan their shopping for the less busy hours. If you go to Lowes or Home Depot too early, you are in direct conflict (on the roads) with the professional construction and landscaping people (the early rush hour). Just a few ideas, trying to be helpful.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by Spalumbos62

I don't think they are saying that at all. Many valid points here, for sure. But with all the accidents and complaints why isn't a traffic engineer out there assessing the issue? Nothing worse than trying to make a left across 2 or 3 on coming and that one inner lane blocks your view of safety....the median turns on 441 another prime example....
Hopefully the right people will read and respond to our needs.

Who do you think are the “right people”? Doubt if any state traffic people monitor TOTV!

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

That's a reasonable case. However, consider this:

Thousands upon thousands of drivers negotiate that intersection every day without incident. Only once in a while does somebody , usually a driver lacking the skills to hold a license, do something stupid that results in an accident. Least Common Denominator (LCD). And consider what can happen when the end of the turn lane backs up into the left lane of traffic. This happens at the left turn of 466A onto Morse south every day, which has an arrow that turns red.

Yes you could say that, "thousands of drivers negotiate" any intersection or road in America WITHOUT incident. The very definition of an ACCIDENT is when an outlier, something unusual happens, And this leads to DEATHS somewhere or at this PARTICULAR intersection in The Villages. Since this intersection is FAMOUS for problems and DEATHS just on a STATISTICAL basis it means that there is a PROBLEM that demands a solution.
.........I suppose that The Villages SHOULD (?) have staff people that are qualified to work out the SOLUTION in combination with the local POLICE. Maybe, I am assuming too much of an idealistic situation?????

I don't believe that the solution would involve taking away the driver's licenses of every SLOW and hesitant driver. That would be about 40% of the Village People. I believe that the greater problems are at the higher end of the speed spectrum. One is supposed to be aware of one's environment and adjust accordingly. The older seniors here have no bus system that they can depend on like in large metro areas. So, to me, I accept my environment and add some extra time for travel during the winter season and I realize that some NEW RESIDENTS will get confused, disoriented, and lost at times when they drive. To a certain extent, it MUST be ACCEPTED. Now I would appreciate more Police for safety sake!!!!!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Someone said, "pick your poison". That leads to a "bigger picture" concept. The Poison is EITHER too many residents for the infrastructure or infrastructure too WEAK for the existing residents (in the winter). At this point, nothing can be done about the number of residents, which will likely only get GREATER in number as rentals increase and more baby boomers retire. So, the solution is to INCREASE and improve the infrastructure. The problem NEEDS to be solved as indicated by the deaths stated in the thread beginning.

I doubt that it can be solved without looking at a tax increase to pay for road structure improvement and lane increases. Also needed is less LAX enforcement of speeding and other aggressive driving practices. (Some people seem to drive like they have a death wish, maybe they all have terminal cancer, I doubt it) So, the problem solution (other than road improvements) seems to go back to having MORE Police hired (again $ and taxes) or some sort of increased camera POLICING equipment, either officers or equipment to video record aggressive violators. Which would be more cost effective?

Originally Posted by jimjamuser

Yes you could say that, "thousands of drivers negotiate" any intersection or road in America WITHOUT incident. The very definition of an ACCIDENT is when an outlier, something unusual happens, And this leads to DEATHS somewhere or at this PARTICULAR intersection in The Villages. Since this intersection is FAMOUS for problems and DEATHS just on a STATISTICAL basis it means that there is a PROBLEM that demands a solution.
.........I suppose that The Villages SHOULD (?) have staff people that are qualified to work out the SOLUTION in combination with the local POLICE. Maybe, I am assuming too much of an idealistic situation?????

As expected, the usual. MORE government, MORE spending, MORE nanny state, LESS individual responsibility and accountability. No thank you.

[Spalumbos62]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Who do you think are the “right people”? Doubt if any state traffic people monitor TOTV!

It certainly would be nice if this info did get to the proper people! Allot of good suggestions on this thread, too bad it's only chatter.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

??? The posted speed limit in that area is 45mph. How would lowering the speed limit make any difference if drivers are ignoring it now? If they are impatient at a posted 45mph are they going to be LESS impatient with a posted 40mph? If they are ignoring the posted speed limits and ignoring the red lights are they all of a sudden going to start obeying the signs if the speed limit is lowered?

I agree with you that SIMPLY lowering the speed limit would NOT work and might make things worse. I have posted several times before that I believe that speeding and hazardous driving seem to have increased in the last 3 years. And it is also in the summer, not just winter. I think that there is some kind of attitude and psychological change happening. Not sure WHY this is happening, but something IS happening because I have read a lot of threads about hazardous and distracted driving on the Forum. Chronologically, it seems to have happened AFTER the Pandemic. There may or may NOT be a relationship? I read somewhere that during the Pandemic, those that continued to drive to or for work had the roads to themselves and were able to drive Fast and Furiously. Then, when the main part of the Pandemic was over, they kept driving crazy-like.

[Babubhat]

Too many think yellow means speed up and drive like Spongebob

[Escape Artist]

Originally Posted by Mark1976

I agree the sight lines aren’t good. I avoid making left turns there. It’s a high alert intersection for sure

Exactly! It’s about sight lines, not this idea that some people have bad vision so they shouldn’t even be driving, as one commenter suggested. If it’s a large truck or SUV opposite I can’t see around them and if I pull out too far I might be clipped by an on-coming car. It’s bad road design/engineering.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Escape Artist

Exactly! It’s about sight lines, not this idea that some people have bad vision so they shouldn’t even be driving, as one commenter suggested. If it’s a large truck or SUV opposite I can’t see around them and if I pull out too far I might be clipped by an on-coming car. It’s bad road design/engineering.

That's right, when there is a truck, sometimes a pick-up or a large SUV, you might not be able to see oncoming traffic. That's simple---you don't go if you can't see, even if the driver behind is "pressuring you" or honking. That's a given. But that's not what we are discussing. What some are proposing is that the yellow flashing arrow be changed to red when the straight away light turns green. This means you sit there. You sit there if it is clear no one is coming. You sit there at 10 PM when there is no traffic. You sit there for absolutely no reason other than a few morons turned right in front of oncoming traffic. As Judge Judy says, "You can't fix stupid". And guess what---a red arrow won't fix stupid either---they will just find another way to manifest their stupidity.

[jimjamuser]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

That's right, when there is a truck, sometimes a pick-up or a large SUV, you might not be able to see oncoming traffic. That's simple---you don't go if you can't see, even if the driver behind is "pressuring you" or honking. That's a given. But that's not what we are discussing. What some are proposing is that the yellow flashing arrow be changed to red when the straight away light turns green. This means you sit there. You sit there if it is clear no one is coming. You sit there at 10 PM when there is no traffic. You sit there for absolutely no reason other than a few morons turned right in front of oncoming traffic. As Judge Judy says, "You can't fix stupid". And guess what---a red arrow won't fix stupid either---they will just find another way to manifest their stupidity.

In general, it is probably a pretty good tradeoff for a car to have to sit for a few minutes at 10 PM than have a situation when a car turning left can be HIT and people injured or DEAD. DEAD is more PERMANENT that a few minutes delay - last time I checked. When a Senior is involved in a crash, there would likely, on average, be worse physical and medical outcomes. Then we have a whole slew of costly situations. The children and grandchildren of the injured Senior are negatively affected. A spouse may have been at home. We could have HIGH hospital costs and long physical therapy costs.
.......ALL this pain and suffering because someone has NOT upgraded the roads or added more Police to make up for the increasing Village traffic and drivers pushing the limits of speed and hazardous driving. For me, I would choose life over inconvenience !!!!!