[MPhoto]

Excellent post! Thank you for your time, effort, and thoughtfulness is this post!

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Velvet

I would like to see the developer buy up those Coleman prisons. I could see them relocated to the Everglades near the one already there. We do not need such a facility by the largest retirement community. All joking aside It would have been a deciding factor in buying if and where I would buy.

And this relates to the 4th town square how?

[Velvet]

If there is a choice of where to put the town square, don’t have a prison near it, please....

[Wavy Chips]

Excellent assessment by the OP. His pro posed location makes a lot of sense based on what we know publicly. He is correct that these types of decisions are planned out years in advance. In fact the name and location of the 5th town square has already been planned out, it's Tampa . . .

[bigallis1]

Excellent prediction. Thank you for your time and efforts...…….

[Packer Fan]

Now that is an awesome report! Thanks Don!

[Carpe Diem]

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

[vintageogauge]

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

There is also a proposed exit ramp off I-75 in Coleman at the industrial park. They have this all figured out even the intersection of 301 and Warm Springs Avenue which is a nightmare at times, I hope they get that figured out soon before someone gets killed.

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem

The proposed location near 470 totally makes sense. However, it is about 8 miles from Brownwood. The original post mentioned that Spanish Springs is 3 miles from Sumter Landing, and Sumter Landing is 6 miles from Brownwood.

That 4th square is going to have to serve an awful lot of people. Close to 100,000 Villagers . . . plus non-Villagers coming off the turnpike and new townfolk that move into the area because of the 20,000 new jobs created by the upcoming Villages Industrial area. (Just think about how many people the Industrial Park will bring into the area between Coleman, Sumterville, and Bushnell. In time, a new city will arise there. Many will be visiting the new square(s).)

That means there should be a 5th square in the works as well. Five miles from Square 4 could take you to Rte 48 near Center Hill, or more centralized (between proposed Rd 2 & 3) due north of Center Hill. And just think - Square 5 would be 22 miles from Spanish Springs, 19 miles from Sumter Landing, & 13 miles from Brownwood.

On a side note, the demographics should easily be able to support a minor league baseball franchise . . . so I hope they save a little land for something like that.

That 470 entry ramp onto the turnpike will be the only entrance serving this large population and will one day turn into one incredibly busy intersection. I've lived in cities where highway entry ramps were 1 1/2 miles apart. The two Villages ramps will be 8 1/2 miles apart. Although that may not seem workable, The Developer very diligently performs traffic studies so I imagine it will all work out.

All good observations. I actually considered both the distances as well as the continued changes in density of houses that has occurred as the The Villages has continued to build southward.

The center of Brownwood to the point where the Sumter/Lake County line crosses CR470 is 7.25 miles (as the crow flies). A little farther than Sumter-Brownwood but there is a lot more open and non-Villages properties between resulting in a lower population density than the northern areas. The number of resident served would be similar.

If you look at the properties within the current Villages moving from north to south you seen a lot more open/green spaces and less density in the housing. The roads are wider with additional boulevard and shoulder grass areas. The reasons for this seem pretty obvious, money, these area all cost to build and take away from the number of units available for sale. Earlier on, when the business wasn't as big and financially robust unit sales drove cash flow. As The Villages has grown (substantially) the ability to shift from quantity to quality has become apparent; simply drive down Morse Blvd from north to south and you see substantial changes.

An additional consideration in the distances involved is that people are more willing to drive a little farther when they have a view or something interesting to look at besides houses. The emphasis being given to green/natural areas as building has continued has been profoundly significant. Why the big change in attitude? There are several possible answers with the truth being probably someplace in the middle. It could be altruism. It could be that the pasture land being used has more wetlands they are being tasked with preserving than the watermelon fields between 466 and 44 had. It could be the market demand for more properties with a view and the financial incentive these view sites bring. It could be that some land simply isn't physically or economically suitable for putting houses on. Again, it's likely a combination of off of the above.

Access will definitely be an issue in the decades to come, 470, 471, 301, 48, and 33 will all become major arteries as will the major roads that are shown on the map. This issue however is not the same as it is in other communities for one simple reason, it's a retirement community. We don't have the morning and evening rush hour traffic to and from work, we don't have the 7:00 AM rush of parents dropping kids off to school, and we don't have the major commercial and industrial areas within the developed areas that are the job centers. Will we see another Turnpike exit between 470 and 27? Likely so. With the additional development it would not be unthinkable that an additional or improved connection to I75 be constructed south of the Turnpike/I75 junction.

I think you are over estimating the size and impact of the 525E industrial area that The Villages is building, it's just over 65 acres so you may see a couple of hundred at best. The location of the complex is probably driven by the suppliers supporting the current and future construction. A prime example is Romac on Rolling Acres who make the ruff trusses, right now trucks roll every day from there to the areas under construction, this trip is getting longer every week and is costing extra time and money to the developer and the supplier. With a long term vision now in place, expanding/relocating their facilities to a closer location is highly likely, the 525E location is prime.

There will be a need for a larger workforce, more business, and all that goes with supporting the community and the workforce. Just like Disney and Universal don't build the hotels, highways, and airport in Orlando; it's not going to fall upon the developer to create these here. Lake and Sumter counties are working hard on economic development as they recognized the need to support the juggernaut that is driving the local economies in this area.

Obviously you're a baseball fan, I also like the idea of a minor league franchise or even a spring training camp for a major league team as an additional area attraction. Unfortunately, the demographics and economics of a large (nearly pure) residential community don't work as well at supporting such an activity as a mixed use metropolitan area where they are normally located.

[ColdNoMore]

On a slight tangent, at what point/distance does continued outlying development from Da Family...can no longer be considered 'The Villages?'

The distance/differences, between Lady Lake/Leesburg/Fruitland Park, which are all different towns...is less than what we have between say Spanish Springs and Fenney now.

Recognizing of course, that the branding and the address of 'The Villages' is a huge selling point, I can't help but wonder...if that might change in the future?

[Goldwingnut]

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore

On a slight tangent, at what point/distance does continued outlying development from Da Family...can no longer be considered 'The Villages?'

The distance/differences, between Lady Lake/Leesburg/Fruitland Park, which are all different towns...is less than what we have between say Spanish Springs and Fenney now.

Recognizing of course, that the branding and the address of 'The Villages' is a huge selling point, I can't help but wonder...if that might change in the future?

How big can an island be? I think as long as the connectivity can be supported and that some scene on community can be maintained it will continue to grow. There is now and will continue to be a decoupling of the areas but not so much as to divide the development. I live near Brownwood, what happens in Spanish Springs or Mulberry Grove, or for that matter even Lake Sumter Landing, while of interest, is of little concern to me most days. The same can be said for those living in other areas about were I live.

What holds it all together is the diversity of people and interests in all the areas and that brings them together. I run the Drone Flyers Club and we have members from all areas of The Villages and we consider ourselves both friends and neighbors, regardless of the mile between. There is no community that is centered around one activity (baseball, boating, knitting, etc.) but yet these are communities that are internally connected to themselves through friendships while externally connected to the rest of The Villages through their activities and interests and subsequent friendships.

As long as we as residents hold the community together it can grow substantially larger without harm. It is when we start trying to divide and elevate ourselves, one area being better than another instead of just different and unique, that's when The Villages will start to become "too big" and will fail as a community. Yes the developer has built the buildings, golf courses, and the houses; but they build and move on, that's their station. It is the residents that have and will continue to make The Villages the great community that it is.

Perhaps I'm looking at things through rose colored glasses. I prefer to look at the positive aspects of living here, the friendships, community, and active lifestyle it has to offer, and not dwell on what I have no power over. Is it perfect, no far from it, but having lived all around the country and abroad, I can tell you it's pretty darn good and better than most anywhere else. An incredible place to retire.

[vintageogauge]

And I say Amen.

[Duppa]

Another "earlier" prediction for 4th Town Square... TOTV, January 14, 2018...

"01-14-2018, 01:07 PM
Duppa Duppa is online now
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Pennsylvania, new home in the Village of Osceola Hills
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Odds of a turnpike exchange at 468 (Morse)? I'd say absolutely zero... Look at the plans submitted, the maps... They report one thing: total TV development. It just makes no business sense to add Turnpike access at one of the BIGGEST "free" advertising spaces for TV in the world: the Turnpike bringing millions of tourists (and potential TV customers) into Central Florida and exciting as they go home. Tens of thousands of visitors every week will slow down to gander and gasp at the homes, golf-courses, ball parks, country-clubs, pools, recreation centers and all the rest...in full view before their eyes! "What is that dear?" "Is that that adult Disneyworld honey?" "Look it up?" "Maybe we can stop by for a peek on the way back home?" "Sure, we can get off at CR 470, the TV ap says there is something called a Town Square there... It's new too, says that the new Town Square is the 'gateway to America's Friendliest Hometown'" "Wow, let's go!"

It's all really fantastic; a brilliant business move that will bring wonderful things to all TV."

[dewilson58]

Since this thread is about a 4th Town Square.............Are we talking about diversity in Town Square styles???

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

Since this thread is about a 4th Town Square.............Are we talking about diversity in Town Square styles???

That's it!!!! The existing squares are very diverse....eh!