[Bucco]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2001002]

Originally Posted by n8xwb

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."[/QUOT

Here's a link to the NARA site, explaining further that statement.
NARA’s Statement on Potentially Harmful Content | National Archives

I think what the site attempts to explain, at the top of the page, is that documents from the past, and subsequent archivists' descriptions of documents and events may contain language that, at the time, was accepted, but now is not.

As I read the page, I understand it to say that they are working to eliminate racist, and exclusionary or otherwise offensive language going forward, and providing insight as to the general attitudes of society at the time the historical documents were drafted and archived, but NOT to rewrite or change the original documents, or archivist's explanations as they were originally drafted.

I hope this is what they are saying and doing. It is important, in order to avoid repeating bad history, to know what it was, and not to whitewash it into what we wish it was, or what we would like to believe it was.

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Bucco

While most of the posts on this thread have no idea of history and the motive for the thread and posts are of a nature that I find inexcusable, you make a valid point in many ways.

Times do change as you say, and keeping things in perspective and accurate to the times is important.

Few examples…..the swastika was a sign of good luck and fortune even used by US military in world WW1. It was hijacked by Hitler in the 30’s and now does not symbolize any good things at all.

Many of the changes made by the group hereby being accused, are to avoid political controversies or involvement. In order to preserve our history accurately AND in context with the times

There were actually court cases as recently as 2020 concerning photos that were blurred out to stay out of politics as they showed references that were distinctly politics.

YEP……looking at history requires context at every step. Without it, you are not reading history to understand things but for some other motive.

A serious researcher, that you mention, would appreciate really understanding our history

Understanding our history? Few take the time to read history. Most of us have only the spun version of history fed to us by our school system. We think all of our current issues are new.

The Wright brothers, a lot of their writings have been preserved. Reminder the first powered flight was 1903. The press-they complained about reporters writing misinformation because they did not understand what they were saying. They complained about reporters copying the misinformation of other reporters as if it was their own work. They copied misinformation. People reading the same misinformation from several reporters thought wrong is right. Powered flight was a world competition.
The Wright brothers also complained about national bias. There is much to be learned for the past. We do not need to make the same mistakes all over again.

You see a sign WET PAINT. Some need to touch it to see that it is truly WET PAINT.
Some not only see the sign, but see someone with paint on their hands from the need to confirm reality. The person who sees the sign, sees the person with paint on their hands and then touches the paint-hum,no shortage of them either.

[blueash]

Originally Posted by davem4616

.you learn from history...you don't try to cover it up, or try to judge it through the eyes of the present... so that their fragile feelings wouldn't be scared at a young age

It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by DAVES

Understanding our history? Few take the time to read history. Most of us have only the spun version of history fed to us by our school system. We think all of our current issues are new.

The Wright brothers, a lot of their writings have been preserved. Reminder the first powered flight was 1903. The press-they complained about reporters writing misinformation because they did not understand what they were saying. They complained about reporters copying the misinformation of other reporters as if it was their own work. They copied misinformation. People reading the same misinformation from several reporters thought wrong is right. Powered flight was a world competition.
The Wright brothers also complained about national bias. There is much to be learned for the past. We do not need to make the same mistakes all over again.

You see a sign WET PAINT. Some need to touch it to see that it is truly WET PAINT.
Some not only see the sign, but see someone with paint on their hands from the need to confirm reality. The person who sees the sign, sees the person with paint on their hands and then touches the paint-hum,no shortage of them either.

The one thing for certain in your post that I will totally agree with is how we need REALITY in this life.

Wonder how history will treat the social media type who have no desire nor need for reality but only search for the fantasy being fed that best serves their hunger.

Reality is not easy to accept sometimes….we seem to only understand power, and if we reject anything that does not allow us power over something.

Recent threads and history have shown so many NON REALITY words based on looking, NOT for reality and truth but to satisfy whatever drives the acceptance of lies and untruths. If you must search for lies to make your points then I don’t think you have a point to make.

We are a country founded on certain principles. We are running away from them and they are a good solid base on which to build. We changed our motto from “one from many” to “In God we trust”, yet we seem to shy away from both of them.

[DAVES]

[QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

Nothing is being whitewashed? History IS being spun. Statues are being removed, damaged by mindless MOBS. Books are being removed form school libraries.

The Tea Party adopted, "Don't tread on me," as a motto. It would take a book to reply.
History. The Tea Party of Boston was not as simple as taught in school. A tax on tea.
While they did not yet know about germs they knew that you could not safely drink the water in the cities without getting sick. Then as now you need water to live. People drank liquor as the alcohol killed germs. I expect the heroes to me, who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution etc had a buzz on when they did it.
As to tea, since you boiled the water, that too would bill the germs.

The destruction of the British tea screaming about taxes, was organized by Alexander Hamilton a bit of a scoundrel turned into a hero by history. Hamilton had a warehouse full of tea and he would have been financially ruined by the British tea.

We think, we are indoctrinated as if scoundrels have just been invented.

[Laker14]

[QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

Originally Posted by Laker14

Nothing being whitewashed in any way.

Their JOB is not to change the words but alert readers to the fact that words were written in a different time. And history MUST be read in context.

Won’t be around when it is finalized but will be “interesting” how this particular period is written about.

Recalling, as a retired historian, when the Tea Party adopted “Don’t tread on me” as a motto and a flag and how that attitude of anti government has grown in to what we have today.

[QUOTE=DAVES;2001021]

Originally Posted by Bucco

Nothing is being whitewashed? History IS being spun. Statues are being removed, damaged by mindless MOBS. Books are being removed form school libraries.

The Tea Party adopted, "Don't tread on me," as a motto. It would take a book to reply.
History. The Tea Party of Boston was not as simple as taught in school. A tax on tea.
While they did not yet know about germs they knew that you could not safely drink the water in the cities without getting sick. Then as now you need water to live. People drank liquor as the alcohol killed germs. I expect the heroes to me, who wrote the declaration of independence, the constitution etc had a buzz on when they did it.
As to tea, since you boiled the water, that too would bill the germs.

The destruction of the British tea screaming about taxes, was organized by Alexander Hamilton a bit of a scoundrel turned into a hero by history. Hamilton had a warehouse full of tea and he would have been financially ruined by the British tea.

We think, we are indoctrinated as if scoundrels have just been invented.

Whoah Nellie!! that's not my post being quoted as my post! I never said that or anything like that. My post was directing the thread via a link to the NARA site, putting the statement into proper context.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by Bucco

The one thing for certain in your post that I will totally agree with is how we need REALITY in this life.

Wonder how history will treat the social media type who have no desire nor need for reality but only search for the fantasy being fed that best serves their hunger.

Reality is not easy to accept sometimes….we seem to only understand power, and if we reject anything that does not allow us power over something.

Recent threads and history have shown so many NON REALITY words based on looking, NOT for reality and truth but to satisfy whatever drives the acceptance of lies and untruths. If you must search for lies to make your points then I don’t think you have a point to make.

We are a country founded on certain principles. We are running away from them and they are a good solid base on which to build. We changed our motto from “one from many” to “In God we trust”, yet we seem to shy away from both of them.

They are powerful words and easily, constantly SPUN. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Powerful words BUT, what is life, life worth living, what is liberty, what is happiness? "In god we trust." A solid base? The first amendment prevents a state religion. "One from many." What does that mean? One nation from many states? One nation from many individuals? What is the cost to the individual?

[DAVES]

[QUOTE=Laker14;2001027][QUOTE=Bucco;2001008]

Originally Posted by DAVES

Whoah Nellie!! that's not my post being quoted as my post! I never said that or anything like that. My post was directing the thread via a link to the NARA site, putting the statement into proper context.

This system gets a bit confusing the post immediately above yours says Bucco, it was posted by me DAVES. ????? Perhaps the same is true of the first one.

[DAVES]

Originally Posted by blueash

It is great to find that you support teaching real history, not white washed history. And that having children learn that there are some ugly facts in life, like loosing a soccer game or that white people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads.

It would take books to properly reply. Real history? History is interesting only when you actually read it. "White people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads."

REALITY as I see it. First of all you accept two different sets of rules to produce your views. Our legal system, you are not guilty of crimes committed by your ancestors.
My great, great great grandfather was a general on the Northern side of the civil war.
My mother's side of the family arrived in about 1913. Black slavery ended in 1865.
The RACE CARD. You could find excuses to pay reparations to most groups. The Chinese were welcomed in to build the railroads, many died doing it and were prevented from doing other jobs, the Irish were brought over as indentured servants-essentially slaves for 14 years. Later jobs could be posted with note Irish need not apply. Jews?

I am WHITE. I am not sad. I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power. I HAVE NO GUILT OR REASON TO FEEL GUILTY. In terms of equality under the law. Do try to explain why a black only business is fine for you but a white only business is not.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by DAVES

It would take books to properly reply. Real history? History is interesting only when you actually read it. "White people systematically enslaved, raped, lynched and impoverished non-whites as a founding principle of this nation needs to be taught even if it makes a white person feel the sads."

REALITY as I see it. First of all you accept two different sets of rules to produce your views. Our legal system, you are not guilty of crimes committed by your ancestors.
My great, great great grandfather was a general on the Northern side of the civil war.
My mother's side of the family arrived in about 1913. Black slavery ended in 1865.
The RACE CARD. You could find excuses to pay reparations to most groups. The Chinese were welcomed in to build the railroads, many died doing it and were prevented from doing other jobs, the Irish were brought over as indentured servants-essentially slaves for 14 years. Later jobs could be posted with note Irish need not apply. Jews?

I am WHITE. I am not sad. I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power. I HAVE NO GUILT OR REASON TO FEEL GUILTY. In terms of equality under the law. Do try to explain why a black only business is fine for you but a white only business is not.

To your post


“I am tired of the indoctrinated HATE being used to gain political power.”

I agree wholeheartedly. It is sad.

[sail33or]

I just attended a retreat with very experienced, very educated, very accomplished people (all retired).

The purpose of the retreat was form a support group and try and put together an understanding of todays issues.

A very simple answer emerged.

Younger generations determine goals and future desires. We served this ideal with freedom and prosperity. "THEY" want what they have been taught by their cell phones. It is a form of Communism but you can invent a new word for it if you want. WE are going exactly where "THEY" want. We will have a front row seat to what we know is coming.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by sail33or

I just attended a retreat with very experienced, very educated, very accomplished people (all retired).

The purpose of the retreat was form a support group and try and put together an understanding of todays issues.

A very simple answer emerged.

Younger generations determine goals and future desires. We served this ideal with freedom and prosperity. "THEY" want what they have been taught by their cell phones. It is a form of Communism but you can invent a new word for it if you want. WE are going exactly where "THEY" want. We will have a front row seat to what we know is coming.

I would sincerely love to know the “sponsorship” of this group.

I am always amazed at how...it’s always someone else’s fault, and how that’s arrived at. We don’t lose, we get robbed....we don’t hate, we are defending...always someone or somebody else’s fault.

I learned that listening to the young was pretty darn smart as a general rule.

[charlieo1126@gmail.com]

The country that doesn’t exist anymore could that be the one where my father was screamed at and called a communist by Joe McCarthy for being a labor activist around the country in the 30’S and fighting in Spain against Franco or the segregated America where civil rights workers were beaten and killed or the one that drafted kids to feed into the fire of a war our leaders knew we couldn’t win ( and before you jump I was there many years) or the country where woman’s place was in the home . THAT COUNTRY

[GoPacers]

There is nothing wrong with what NARA wrote. They simply have a disclaimer that protects them against frivolous claims from all sources of miscreants.

It is oftentimes us who should be ashamed of how we take things out of context and selectively quote things that we perceive to support our views. The exact things that we lambaste others (like the MSM) for doing.

[stanley]

Originally Posted by n8xwb

I read this early today ----

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) determined recently that America's founding documents may be "harmful or difficult" for some users to view since they reflect "outdated, biased, offensive, and possibly violent views and opinions."

Not on the Founding Documents (The Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, The Bill of Rights) alone, but on the archived material as a whole amassed during the history of the United States.
For instance The American Revolution, The Civil War, WWI, WWII, Korea, etc............ pretty candid and gory stuff.
I think you can take it as a PG13 rating as in the movies. Do I have a problem with it? No. But if they try to change, and rewrite history and pander to the pansies, then I have a problem with it (ie... the removal and destruction of statues)