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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, General Discussion (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/)
-   -   Application Withdrawn! (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-general-discussion-73/application-withdrawn-152742/)

sunnyatlast 04-28-2015 11:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1052489)
Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.
And that lack of elected, grinning glad-hands is why TV is uniquely successful in the nation and world.

jbdlfan 04-28-2015 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keywest (Post 1052429)
But I'm sure these "family members" don't complain when they come inside The Villages for some of their entertainment, shopping, eating etc.
Hmmmmm...............
Hmmmmm....well, they, "family members" (not sure why that was in quotes), don't come in here that often. You may find this hard to believe, but there are other activities outside The Villages. They go to Clermont, Bushnell, Ocala, Eustis, Mt. Dora and other places including The Villages. I'm pretty sure the businesses that they do frequent greatly appreciate the money they spend.

jbdlfan 04-28-2015 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 1052447)
Let's see here…..

Looking at my Sumter County Property tax on a Villages 3/2 home here with selling market price of $225,000 or so, I see tax billed as:

Sumter County: $1,062
Sumter School Board: $1,128

I'm sure those relatives don't mind 50,000 homes paying school taxes into the county school taxes, all by residents/homeowners having no children to be schooled and in need of added schools in Wildwood or Fruitland Park or wherever.

Lake County only dreams of having that school tax revenue from TV.
Guess what, even before those coveted tax dollars were entering their coffers they were highly rated schools. Lake Pan and a few others have been known as Model schools long before growth south of 466A. That being said, sure they'll take a few million dollars more for the schools, who wouldn't. But if you think all those residents in southern Sumter County welcome the changes you would be sadly mistaken. I know it's hard to believe but The Villages is not the center of the Universe.....

NavyNJ 04-28-2015 12:08 PM
Wildwood City Limits Map
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by naneiben (Post 1052479)
Your question made me curious so I googled: Wildwood FL city limits map.

turns out that your area and most of TV south of 466a is NOT included, while the parcel in question and Pinellas Plaza is.

Interesting. Sorry...cant post the link but youll find it if you google it.
Saw your post and figured I'd check it out. Wow! What a convoluted city limit boundary Wildwood has! Take a look at the map at the link and check out some of the crazy zigs and zags.

Wildwood City Limit Map

tuccillo 04-28-2015 12:09 PM
I recently heard a residential CDD best described as "township-like", if you come from an area that had townships (I didn't). Each CDD has a board that sets a budget for maintaining the CDD. They have the ability to collect money for maintenance and other services so they are Government-like. Essentially, The Villages is a collection of CDDs (both residential and non-residential), each of which has maintenance responsibilities but also share some common administrative infrastructure. You can think of the CDDs as organizations that provide additional services beyond what the Counties provide and have the ability to collect money to provide those services. The geographic extent of a CDD is determined when it created and they have a maximum size. That is why we now have 11 residential CDDs. Your CDD and the county are your governments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1052489)
Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.

twoplanekid 04-28-2015 12:17 PM
I find it interesting that the people who suggest that the developer runs TV as a business are taking the same position as the IRS in the Bond case. While our TV attorneys claim that the Villages are operated under CDD rules that allow elected officials to govern.

Villager Joyce 04-28-2015 12:18 PM
So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?

sunnyatlast 04-28-2015 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbdlfan (Post 1052507)
Guess what, even before those coveted tax dollars were entering their coffers they were highly rated schools. Lake Pan and a few others have been known as Model schools long before growth south of 466A. That being said, sure they'll take a few million dollars more for the schools, who wouldn't. But if you think all those residents in southern Sumter County welcome the changes you would be sadly mistaken. I know it's hard to believe but The Villages is not the center of the Universe.....
We don't disagree on that. I'm well aware of how Leesburg, Fruitland Park, etc. do not want the developer encroachment into their fair cities/towns.

But the bottom line is that if it's not TV--a known quantity and recipe that works--it will be some other developer that could care far less about what happens when they are long gone.

I think it was JFK who said, "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer". Wisdom to live by.

NavyNJ 04-28-2015 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villager Joyce (Post 1052516)
So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?
None that I can see from the map I found. As of now, it looks like the city limits skirt the current boundaries of TV. The parcel being discussed in this thread would solidly land within the city limits, which would make all those residents eligible to vote in Wildwood municipal elections (I would think). That might present a sufficient size voting block to possibly sway election outcomes in their mind. Who knows? Haven't bothered to research Wildwood election stats from past few elections.

sunnyatlast 04-28-2015 12:26 PM
Elections stats are here:

Sumter County Supervisor of Elections > Home

outlaw 04-28-2015 01:51 PM
The Villages will continue to prosper. Wildwood will prosper. Plenty of people moving to Florida. Someone will develop this property. No harm, no foul.

CFrance 04-28-2015 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keywest (Post 1052300)
The mayor of Wildwood, in trying to dictate to The Villages and the Morse family, was involved in negotiations that were "way over his head". I believe the mayor's main fear was that he would lose his "job" in the city's next re-election... Well guess what?... He will... When Wildwood wakes up and realizes what they missed out on. The damage for them has already been done and IF AND WHEN they would want to re-open the negotiations with The Villages again ... it will never be at the same price or conditions originally offered to them.....IMHO....
The mayor is not running for re-election, and neither is the one commissioner who was against the development.

Who thinks this is not the end of the story? I bet they will get together on it.

CFrance 04-28-2015 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw (Post 1052565)
The Villages will continue to prosper. Wildwood will prosper. Plenty of people moving to Florida. Someone will develop this property. No harm, no foul.
I agree.

graciegirl 04-28-2015 02:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CFrance (Post 1052570)
The mayor is not running for re-election, and neither is the one commissioner who was against the development.

Who thinks this is not the end of the story? I bet they will get together on it.
I have said this many times CFrance. Your mama didn't have any dumb kids.

outlaw 04-28-2015 02:22 PM
Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.

NECHFalcon68 04-28-2015 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NavyNJ (Post 1052512)
Saw your post and figured I'd check it out. Wow! What a convoluted city limit boundary Wildwood has! Take a look at the map at the link and check out some of the crazy zigs and zags.

Wildwood City Limit Map
Interesting that St Vincent de Paul Church is not within Wildwood limits....

graciegirl 04-28-2015 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw (Post 1052579)
Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.
Just because it didn't happen doesn't mean it won't happen. There will be things built there and I can't think they will be as nice as The Villages build them. It is no more crowded in that area than in the area around 466 or in any other area of The Villages. The density is the same.

It has only been THREE years since nothing was below 466A. I think the commercial construction will soon catch up to the growth, just as it did in the less new parts..

As for Wildwood, you need to investigate a little further. Wildwood and Fruitland Park both will gain from the association. Money is not all evil.

patfla06 04-28-2015 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phanatic Luvr (Post 1052354)
Is it just me thinking .... I'm actually relieved there won't be 800 more houses on that corner. Does anyone other than myself think about our property values down the road and an overly developed community?
After the baby boomer generation is over, will there be a lot of our kids who have money to retire comfortably and afford a place like TV's? I'm not so sure about that. Just my thoughts ...
I am also relieved. Adding another 800 homes would be a lot in this area.

That being said, I do believe it will be developed at some point and would rather have it done by The Villages.

I have to agree with you and also wonder if the "next wave" of retirees will be able to retire here.
Many will not have company pensions as many of us have.
I just hope the buyers will still be there in the future.

Miles42 04-28-2015 03:06 PM
Glad to hear that the developers did not knuckle down to the Wildwood city idiots.

Big O 04-28-2015 03:07 PM
Personally, I think his constituents have not "explained it properly" to mayor just yet.

NYGUY 04-28-2015 03:38 PM
[QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code./QUOTE]

I believe you live in The Village of Fernandina. That "is not" in Wildwood. If you lived in Wildwood you would be paying "Wildwood" property taxes, which you are not.

dbussone 04-28-2015 03:59 PM
Application Withdrawn!
 
[QUOTE=NYGUY;1052615]
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebiker (Post 1052442)
I'm not understanding the zip code issue. We live south of 466A which is "in" Wildwood, but we have a Villages zip code./QUOTE]



I believe you live in The Village of Fernandina. That "is not" in Wildwood. If you lived in Wildwood you would be paying "Wildwood" property taxes, which you are not.

Correct NY Guy. I also live south of 466A which is in unincorporated Sumter County.

Villager Dude 04-28-2015 04:12 PM
Let's be careful what we wish for. There are many things that could be worse than 800 homes. I would prefer not seeing 800 homes there but It is not a given that is will be a shopping area. It could very well be a large apartment complex. The key is who owns that land and what their mission will be.

I have been surprised there was not a Multi Model path along the South side of 466A to get to Pinellas . Sorta like the one along 466. Anyone else think that was strange ?

Shimpy 04-28-2015 05:32 PM
[QUOTE=NYGUY;1052615][QUOTE=firebiker;1052442]I'm not understanding the zip code issue. ./QUOTE]

Me either...... I thought the postal service set the zip codes, not the Wildwood mayor, guess I'm wrong.

champion6 04-28-2015 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Villager Joyce (Post 1052516)
So How many Villagers live within the boundaries of Wildwood? Or asked a different way, how many Villagers get to vote in the next mayoral election?
Owners in the two villa neighborhoods near Brownwood live in Wildwood. Alden Bungalows is on Powell Rd. and Antrim Dells is on Buena Vista Blvd. Those are the only Villages residential units within Wildwood. Verified on Sumter County GIS site.

buzzy 04-28-2015 06:41 PM
I think this parcel is a white elephant to anyone but The Villages developer. There is nothing about Wildwood that would attract either businesses or residents, except for being part of The Villages community. If another developer started some mixed-use projects, I would expect low occupancy rates, incomplete projects, and eventual developer bankrupcy.

dbussone 04-28-2015 06:48 PM
[QUOTE=Shimpy;1052664][QUOTE=NYGUY;1052615]
Quote:
Originally Posted by firebiker (Post 1052442)
I'm not understanding the zip code issue. ./QUOTE]

Me either...... I thought the postal service set the zip codes, not the Wildwood mayor, guess I'm wrong.
As I understand it, a large development may request use of a zip code. And remember that Lady Lake is the PO that provides service to TV.

dbussone 04-28-2015 06:50 PM
Application Withdrawn!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by champion6 (Post 1052666)
Owners in the two villa neighborhoods near Brownwood live in Wildwood. Alden Bungalows is on Powell Rd. and Antrim Dells is on Buena Vista Blvd. Those are the only Villages residential units within Wildwood. Verified on Sumter County GIS site.
And the businesses in Pinellas Plaza and those southwest of, and including, Brownwood are also in Wildwood.

Topspinmo 04-28-2015 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVillageChicken (Post 1052453)
I don't mind paying school taxes even though I have no family using the schools. It is in my best interest to have an educated population, and to have the little bastards off the streets during the day.

So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.

sunnyatlast 04-28-2015 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzy (Post 1052687)
I think this parcel is a white elephant to anyone but The Villages developer. There is nothing about Wildwood that would attract either businesses or residents, except for being part of The Villages community. If another developer started some mixed-use projects, I would expect low occupancy rates, incomplete projects, and eventual developer bankrupcy.
Look no further than the empty Irish pub property on highway 44 across from Brownwood. It's ridiculous that no other bar-restaurant re-opened at that prime location.

graciegirl 04-28-2015 07:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspinmo (Post 1052702)
So you think your getting your tax money worth? Public schools IMO in failing business model which all the fixes are raise school tax. Less school days more school breaks model is not working still have dumbing down compared to even third world schooling. India and China have better educated students with way less money spent. Money not the answer all the time IMO. Our system broke and will continue to be broke. Trillions can't fix it. All that does is raise superintendent salaries.
It was a joke, son. The chicken was making a joke.

shcisamax 04-28-2015 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYGUY (Post 1052333)
The residents of Wildwood become the real losers here....all thanks to the misguided leaders of their city.
isn't that the way it always is with government....

justjim 04-28-2015 09:17 PM
Property will be developed
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by outlaw (Post 1052579)
Those who think Wildwood blew it must think that money trumps simplicity, less congestion, or rural surroundings. Maybe the Wildwood citizens are happy the way things are in their community. Maybe they don't want the crowds and traffic that comes with endless "progress". Maybe they live here because they wanted a rural lifestyle. Honestly, I'm glad that the developer withdrew. I think the building strategy is getting out of hand. It is already very crowded in that area, and 800 new homes is a lot of people. I know some will think I'm selfish, and that's alright. I do believe the land owner and the developer have the right to develop the property. I'm just saying, for me, I hope it doesn't happen.
This piece of real estate will be developed because of its location. If not by the Villages Developer, somebody else. Who do you think would do the best job? Cities and towns across the country would love to have the same opportunity that is offered to Wildwood. Greatly increase your tax base and not increase your schools enrollment by a single student. That is a deal! :eclipsee_gold_cup:

Bonanza 04-29-2015 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TVMayor (Post 1052355)

Huh?
What's that all about???

Bonanza 04-29-2015 02:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keywest (Post 1052429)
But I'm sure these "family members" don't complain when they come inside The Villages for some of their entertainment, shopping, eating etc.
Hmmmmm...............

And what makes you think these "family members" come here for their "entertainment, shopping, eating, etc.?"

I live here. I don't even shop here, hardly ever go to the squares for entertainment and we mostly eat outside of TV. I have a feeling those family members don't come here for that.

Hmmmmm . . . A little presumptuous on your part.

Bonanza 04-29-2015 02:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk (Post 1052489)
Whether it resembles a city or not, the reality is that is is not one, any more than Recreation Plantation on 466 is. Both are organized businesses providing housing and amenities / activities. Yet I would be highly surprised to see anyone at Recreation Plantation going to great lengths to tell the ownership how to run the park, what and where to build, dispute their right to add or remove attractions (like the buffalo, Katie Belle's, etc. :shrug:) ,and otherwise how to put their financial investment at risk. And even if they tried, the ownership there would probably tell them (and rightfully so) that if they don't like and appreciate the business proposal, maybe it would be best for everyone if they moved on to another place that fit their needs and wants. After all, Recreation Plantation does a robust business. So does the Villages. I think both business principals know what's best for their own operation.

We all move here knowing (or should know) that there is no mayor and council government at The Villages. Anyone who landed here without understanding that needs a history lesson.
An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.

twoplanekid 04-29-2015 07:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1052826)
An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.
It is yet to be determined.

I find it interesting that the people who suggest that the developer runs TV as a business are taking the same position as the IRS in the Bond case. While our TV attorneys claim that the Villages are operated under CDD rules that allow elected officials to govern.

villagetinker 04-29-2015 07:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyatlast (Post 1052711)
Look no further than the empty Irish pub property on highway 44 across from Brownwood. It's ridiculous that no other bar-restaurant re-opened at that prime location.
There was a news article recently, indicating that property was sold, and there will be a strip mall in that location. It is my understanding that part of the problem with O'Shays was the lack of golf cart access.

looneycat 04-29-2015 07:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonanza (Post 1052826)
An excellent post. Bingo and right on the money.

Anyone who has ever lived in a "city" should know that TV is not a city and I'm sure, never can or will be.
I've lived in several cities and as far as the daily experience of inhabitants, this is a city. If you are referring to the governing of the villages, it is different, but it is driven by what makes financial sense...unlike most cities.

JoMar 04-29-2015 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar Bear (Post 1052431)
I agree with most of your assessment.

But while TV is definitely a business, it is also a CDD. To simply state that TV is a business and not a city is a bit simplistic. While a CDD is not technically a city, it is definitely more than just a business, and resembles a city in many ways.

Plus, whether it's technically accurate or not, I think most residents living here, shopping here, socializing here and having fun here would say TV much more closely resembles a city than just a business.
I think this mixes apples and oranges a bit. The business model applies to the Developer not to the CDD's. The CDD's are government entities authorized by the State of FL and are run like most government's with the exception that our CDD's work closely together through the sharing of central resources.


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