Right on, Army Guy!

I wonder who is responsible for policing the pools and rec centers to verify guest rules are being followed ? Anyone? Or is it just the honor system.

Dirigo

I pay and they play! I'm in Army Guy's corner on this one.

Go army guy. Right on. And for GMONEY. The majority of golf cart paths are maintained by amenity fees. The more people that use them, the more repair they need. Just like roadways. Seeing you DO NOT pay amenity fees you should not be using the golf cart pathways. growing up has nothing to do with it.
chilout

rec center staff spot checks people at pools and usings rec center outdoor facilities.

And, what do they do if they find a violation? Do they, somehow, force the visiting family, including the little kids with their inflated duck floats, to leave the pool. What if they refuse to leave? Will the sheriff be called and they will all be hauled off to the precinct.

Believe me, I'm not in favor of opening the amenities to non residents. I am focusing on enforcement. Who has authority to do what?

Is enforcement a problem?

I actually was a witness to the "enforcement" of the no guest pass policy this past summer. My 14 yr old granddaughter and I were at the Churchill Family Pool. Our ID's were checked as we entered. I witnessed a couple with a small child of around 3 attempting to come into pool area---they did not have guest passes and did not even seem to know what they were. They did not go away happy but they were not allowed in. I also witnessed people in the pool area questioning the "enforcer" as to why he would not let them in since they had a small child. Any Villager should know that passes are required for their guests so I wondered if they were just driving by looking for a pool to use. They did not get into the Churchill Pool. This was in July.

I don't know. Do you?

I was asking a question and got a your question in reply.

I would think that if they were using the facilities and were not a guest. They could be charged with trespass.

On the other hand. . .
My 86-year-old mother-in-law from St. Petersburg visits us for weeks at a time, and she LOVES having a Villages guest pass. She only uses it when we go to the pool or the movies, but she LOVES showing her guest pass. She doesn't swim; she just likes to sit at the pool with us. We usually get her a pass for her entire visit. She visits us for two weeks at Easter, another two weeks for Thanksgiving and her birthday, another 3 weeks for Christmas, plus occasional weekly visits from time to time... She would use up a 30-day pass in no time at all.
Would I have to get her a pass on a daily basis, or just get one whenever the weather was nice, so we could go to the pool together? That doesn't make much sense to me.

PS: Shhh. Don't tell anyone I told you how old she is. She still claims to be 79. She said that once you're 80 everybody thinks you're old.

PPS: She saves her old guest passes. She keeps them on her refrigerator so all her neighbors can see that she's been to The Villages many, many times.

I have read all sixteen pages of this thread, and I believe we have missed the point. Who was the developer of Bison Valley? Why did he build golf cart access to our cart paths? What newspaper advertises Bison Valley Real Estate? What Real Estate Company is the lead in Bison Valley Dealings?

Boy am I a conspirsay nut or what?

Long Reponse, Sorry
 

As I have said in earlier posts, I served on the Focus Group concerning the guest IDs. The 30 day limit proposal was for the In-Area Guest ID's only since those are issued for 365 days and are limited to children, spouses, grandchildren, spouses, great-grandchildren only (no other relatives, i.e. brothers, uncles, etc.) The actual proposal was not for 30 days, but for 30 days of use per 365 day period. Persons living outside the tri-county area are issued passes (maximum 30 days) which are renewable. Some of the ones we heard from who have the in-area guest passes use them very little. One guy said he sees less of his grandkids now than he did when they lived in Orlando. The 365-day pass just allows them to do things with the grandkids, etc. on a spur of the moment basis (Sunday afternoon occasionally for instance). Out of area guests are usually not just "drop-ins" but planned visits.

Most people who have guests from outside the area do so for much less than 30 days annually. Some people have many guests but not the same ones all the time. This focus group all came about, not because they don't want you to have guests, but because of those few (and they are few) who abuse the system. Guest passes are now issued for the very young children because some were passing off their grandchildren's friends (or others) as their grandchildren as well. Much of the abuse was from people who do not live here full-time and as a result, did not want to have to pay the amenity fees, upkeep of property, insurance, etc. so they bought close, got their friends in TV to get them guest passes (using their out-of-state id's) every 30 days thus giving them all the amenities of what the guest program was meant to be without having to pay all the stuff that goes with ownership in TV.

If you know of someone using the pools, etc. and living in Bison or somewhere close but not here, call (all the rec centers and pools have phones) and they will send someone out to check. I have noticed much more checking going on since the focus group meetings at our neighborhood pool and that is as it should be. Personally, I would like to see the pool monitors returned, but we were told that it is totally cost-prohibitive. Meanwhile, protect our investments by calling and reporting. If they are indeed there legally, they should not be offended and if they are, too bad. I can count on one hand the times I have been to our neighborhood pool in the six years I've been here and have had people in the pool ask me if I belong. I actually appreciate that they do and am happy to produce my ID, thank them for asking, and enjoy the rest of my time there. Turst me, I am not offended....quite the opposite.

The Villages is the developer for Bison Valley. It goes under the name of Mid-Florida Porperties which is addressed at Lake Sumter Landing. The company that sells these houses is The Villages.

www.bisonvalleyvillage.com

Originally built for employess and their families that build and operate in The Villages. Thus the cart path access. There are alot of Villagers that sold and moved into Bison. memebers of the Villages Sales Dept live there as do adminisrtators at the Villages CHarter School.
Funnything about this Cart Path issue. We sat out and watched the other night a whole string of Carts come into Bison drive around and look. then drive out the main entrance turn left on CR-101 and drive to Parkwood Village. They then returned and drove back thru Bison. i asked them as they drove by my house where they were heading. they just wanted to go see Bison and drive thru Parkwood. Just out on a stroll. Imagine that. get all in a uproar because they gave the us a cart path access then the residents use our streets as a short cut to somewhere else. Complain about cart path use, try going to LSL or Spanish SPrings and stopping all these people that drive there, park their vehicles and either ride bike or rent the golf carts and tour The Villages. dont see them paying for anything...
Amazing what people will complain about. most of the people who are buying in Bison like myself have been working thier butts off many hours a week for 16-20 years so you FINE FOLKS have this Great Place to live. Thye give us cart access and you turn into the Exorcist..

What a Deal.. :boxing2: :faint:

Only my opinion
 

We first came to The Villages 5 years ago with friends that live in here. We fell in love right away. Now, we have our home in Atlanta listed for sale and are planing on moving as soon as it sells. That said, articles like this make we want to take a closer look. At my age, I know that unfortunatly, rules are required for us unperfect humans. Without rules you have caos. Rules that are not enforced are worthless.

Show me a bunch of young men on the town square with their pants hanging down and underwear showing with or without a guest pass and I become unhappy.

Remember, you pay more for the house just because it is in the Villages:

You pay ammenities just because you live in the villages:

If you allow the rules to slide to much or issue to many Outside Visitor Passes, and you will have just another large Florida city.

Compare the crime rate of outside communities with that of The Villages.

For those that work on the villages, I have no problems with them having worker permits for the family pools and even the golf cart trails, but I would say no to anyone living within 100 miles of the villages but not in The Villages haveing a year long pass. Why would they have a pass??? So they can use the Facilities without any obligation whatsoever. To make one Resident happy that is a relative. If you took a vote, I feel confident that 1000's of passes would not be given out. Keep in mind that when the villages is built out, rules will have to take a strong stance toward enforcement or you will have total breakdown of the concept of this wonderful place.

Lou

GMONEY, I for one support you.

Lou, I agree with you 100%. As I have said I follow rules, regs, what ever we want to call them, to the letter. Maybe it has to do with my military, maybe it doesn't. But fact is rules are made and we have to follow them or pay the penalty. We ALL had to read and sign saying we understood the rules when we bought at TV. Does TV let the rules slide at times, YOU BETCHA! So we as OWNERS need to force them to enforce them. Cause if you think about it, we had to sign that we would abide by them, so we entered a "contract" with TV. If they don't enforce, isn't that a breach of contract? I tell you one that really gripes me, is Garage Doors being left open. In the rules it states they will not be left open, but I see plenty that leave open all day and night. And most Garages inside are a MESS!! But I have NEVER seen CW stop and tell them to close it. Just one example.
I agree totally with your feelings about Guest Passes, and so do MANY others. I believe 30 days a year PERIOD. Am I saying you can't have guests more then that, NO, they just can't swim, play golf, etc. As I have said before WE pay the fees, they DON'T. If they want to use the facilities we have in TV....BUY HERE, like the rest of us did. I am against people using LSVs as vacations also. You get one, then if working with an agent to buy, you can get two more to look at homes, and final one at closing. You bring up the Squares, my feelings? At night when the groups, etc are performing, they should be CLOSED and CW check IDs for getting in. We are PAYING for the entertainment, not Parkwood, Stone Crest, etc. And kids? If no RESPONSIBLE adult with them, throw 'em out. They have no business here.
With all that being said, Lou, TV is a great place, is it perfect? No, no place in the world is. BUT is it worth the extra price of buying TV, and is it near perfect as it can? YOU BETHCA!!!!!!!!!!!!! We searched for 5 years and looked at dozens of places from Williamsburg, VA down the coast. Ain't nothing like TV anywhere!
And Money, I am all for those contected with TV, and the school, etc using the facilities. It is a perk of the business, just like in the Army I can use the PX, etc. No problem there. It is all the other, and yes I will say it, Freeloaders, that should not.
ok, once again off my soap box!

Army Guy

If I'm not mistaken, those are public streets, paid by public tax dollars. Can't forbid anybody from using them.

Understand about the streets, but I mean the actual "square" area where the sitting and dancing is.

Army Guy

Believe the commercial tenants pay for the entertainment not the residents. It's a CDD unto itself. Could be wrong ...........

chuckster, if that is the case then I am wrong with my complaint on the entertainment. I thought it was part of the fee we pay.

Army Guy

I understand most of the folks who live in Bison work for The Villages. Shouldn't we be more hospitable toward them?

First time we were in TV it was just a day trip. No invitation, we weren't anyone's guests. We just drove over, took a trolley tour, had dinner and wandered around the square.
No we didn't play golf or attempt to use the pools or even drive on the cart paths. We were just outsiders visiting, as we've done in hundreds of communities around the world. Everone we met was friendly and made us feel comfortable.
Had we been given the bums rush, it's not likely we'd consider TV "America's Friendliest Hometown". Not likely would have returned and eventually bought a home in TV.
Rules are fine and should be enforced if they negatively affect your lifestyle. This should not be heavy handed. Who wants to live in a police state? Sometimes we need to lighten up a little.

Another idea
 

The issue of who uses the facilities seems to be one of who pays the amenity fees. You all seem to feel – and rightly so – that if you have to pay, you should have exclusive rights to the facilities. No problem; in fact, it seems only fair.

But I have a question. Some time back, I posed this in an e-mail to the sales office as to whether it COULD be done. I received no answer. Now, I wonder how you feel about whether it SHOULD be possible:

How do you feel about people who live near The Villages paying the amenity fee for the right to use facilities and participate in activities? They would pay a fair fee (since on another thread about the fee it seems not to be standard throughout The Villages) in return for all the rights and privileges.

It seems that would alleviate everyone's objections to “outsiders” using pools, cart paths, etc., while allowing people who live nearby to not be excluded from the larger community, one that includes their 70,000 or so neighbors in TV.

I haven't seen anyone suggest this so far, so what do you all think?

No Bums Rush
 

They are not getting what you call "the bums rush". It would be a different story if they were charged and paid for the ammenities the same as we do, but they don't. There is an actual family section (children are allowed) within TV and they do not pay for the ammenities nor use them. They understand this when they purchase there. Why should Bison or any of the other surrounding areas be any different? People here are not being rude, just trying to protect their investments.

If you check back, Katie Belle's at one time was open to everyone. It was changed to a residents and guests only when the residents could not get in because it was always full of people from the surrounding areas. That was also when there were very few places in TV to go and Katie Belle's was much larger then as well. The residents still couldn't get in much of the time because of those coming in from surrounding areas.

BTW, anyone can play the championship courses only, not the executive courses. To play the championship, they just have to pay the non-resident green fees which are the highest fees. Priority resident members, residents, and their registered guests get first choice on tee times. The country clubs where I have lived previously didn't do this. You either belonged or you ate, swam, or played golf or tennis elsewhere. All the ones here are open to the public.

Another Thing
 

They do not pay the big bonds in addition to the ammenity fees, either. The ammenities, etc. are constructed with those bonds. We have to pay our share of the bonds to live here.

What's right
 

We visited some years back. We liked what we saw and that's what kep't us coming back. There were rules and restrictions, that's what we wanted. I had my share of don't tell me what I can do and the results were a very messy, depressed neighborhood. Anybody who bought elsewhere did so because the house prices were cheaper, the fees were cheaper, there were no bonds and very little rules.We bought a lifestyle and pay for this lifestyle, therefore we HAVE to protect this lifestyle. The pools, rec centers, golf courses etc. belong to us and our invited guests.I understand that the properties on 101 have a TV connection and I know they're not completed
( no rec. center & pool yet .) I believe when we visited there to look for my daughter the sales person said those residents had access to TV now what does that mean. As for the residents who life here with friends in the other communities close by you should not be getting guest passes for those people to have free access to our facilities. I know the guest pass rules were recently changed but I think they need to be tightened up a little more. Right now with the winter residents here it's pretty darn crowded at the pools and resteraunts. What's going to happen at build out or when more people are permanent. If you want to use here then move here. Just my opinion.

I just have to rant here.

Gosh, I was considering moving into Bison Valley myself given the historic low prices right now, but I believe I will rethink that.

I love Villagers, but my gosh, there's a measely 96 homes in there. These are owned by the folks that keep the Villages running; and some of your are miffed that these people might use your cart paths & pools?!

Give me !#$ break. If you want to live in a submarine where "only the residents" get in and close the hatch, that's fine, but if you're going to own the submarine, then be prepared to run the submarine. Let all the recreation, golf facilities, waste water facilities, landscaping---EVERYTHING be run by residents only. The rest of us interlopers will move on.

How would you all like that?

I don't live in a yellow submarine.
 

I don't care if you visit, come to eat, go to parades,fairs,polo grounds etc. As for the rec. facilites that's a different story. As for us running the facility how many people besides those living on 101 have JOBS here and make a pretty darn good living here.Where would all these people work. But that's off the topic of this thread. Earlier threads have stated pass rules were changed because of abuse. People living here caring for outsiders children and bring them to the family pool. People from outside without passes etc.Those changes were needed and I believe there are stii more restrictions needed. I'm sure if I went to stone crest, dell webb, legacy, arlinton ridge etc I couldn't walk in and use their pool or rec center. Thats all, I'm done.

Correction
 

They are not all owned by "folks that keep the villages running". Anyone can buy in there. They can have kids....you cannot in TV. This is a "retirement community". We have restrictions so why would/should it be open to eveyone else with no restrictions? Would you buy a lot, build and equip a big rec room, have an indoor and/or outdoor pool, shuffleboard court, horseshoe pit, pool tables, etc. and then just let anyone use all of it and you foot all the bills? Could they use your kitchen to entertain their friends while using all your fun stuff? Not. That's what you're asking us to do. We pay and you play? Not.

Not correct. The neighborhood is restricted to people who work for the villages in some manner. Some may work for the district, recreation, etc. Some may work for a contractor who works for the villages. ALL must be connected to the Villages though; and I DO NOT MEAN politically connected (I am sure the light bulbs of 1% of you came on when you read that).

Hey here's a thought. Why not erect a Berlin Wall around the Villages. Put up some checkpoints. That'll keep everyone out. Your squares and restaurants will shut down, but it will ensure that your pools and rec centers are 100% exclusive to residents.

I know I'm over the top here, but I am seriously having to rethink my desire to live in Bison Valley. Maybe it's best to work here but keep my 45 minute commute. I would hate to go through all the trouble only to get a finger from some mad residents when they see me drive out of my neighborhood in my golf cart.

Oh well, have a nice day all.

So, the folks who live in the Lake County portion of The Villages (no bond) shouldn't have full rights, either, even if they are paying the amenity fee?

And, if you want to say the bonds in Lake (were there ever any?) are all paid off, it would still be a "no bond" situation for any new buyer.

Where is this stated ? Or did you just hear of from someone?

Hi cybrgeezer,
Have you already purchased a home in TV? If not, do you think this would this still be your recommendation if you lived in TV?

I mean, who wouldn't love to buy near The Villages, and then for an amenity fee that is less than the cost of most country club memberships, be able to use all of the TV neighborhood facilities? Hmm, I'm just thinking, if we had done this, we could live in a nice subdivision without worrying about all non-neighborhood traffic. Indeed we could still have a neighborhood, while the poor suckers who lived in TV no longer would. They would be living in a heavily trafficked central Florida amusement park. Never mind that TV is a neighborhood planned community designed to have just enough facilities to profitably serve its residents. In this way, it is able to remain a neighborhood for those who choose to pay more for their homes to live here.

So I'm just wondering, if everyone, regardless of where they lived, could pay an amenity fee to use TV amenities, would you buy a house in TV, or would you buy one nearby?

I can understand you wanting to buying the golden eggs (amenities), absolutely. My question is whether you would actually buy the goose that laid the golden egg-- and then kill the goose?

The restaurants have nothing to do with your argument. If the "outsiders" didn't use them we probably would not have the restaurants around very long.

Resteraunts
 

Wasn't refering to the resteraunts for restrictions of use just stating a fact of crowds. Gee!

My second Opinion
 

BUT:::::::: without all the residents, the squares would not be there to enjoy by anyone. Lets try to keep the orig concept in tact. This place was built for retired folks to have a safe and fun environment to live in. You want a fun experience for young adults and kids, try the little theme park down the road called Disney. It in the Orlando area. Lots of young action there, so please leave the peace and quite of retired living in The Villages to The Villages residents.

Lou

I agree 100% with Lou and Army Guy

Doesn't Hold Water
 

Once my bond is paid off and if I sell, there would be no bond attached to it to be paid by the buyer. It is a one time thing. Everyone does pay the ammenities fees and an annual assessment....everyone, every year.

Like I said earlier, would you build everything you wanted and then open it up to everyone just because they like what you have? Me neither. WE pay for this, you don't.

:agree:

Go ahead and buy and move into Bison Valley. You will know the rules before you do that. Of all the posts here I have yet to read the "official" rules for Bison Valley residents. If the rule is you have full ammenity access.....than that is the rule. The objection we Villagers would have is not with you but the entity that sold you the home.If the rule is you do not have full ammenity access....than that is the rule. The objection we Villagers would have is now with you and we should demand from our entity that you not use the ammenities.
As a resident of Bison Valley and what you do for a living has nothing to do with this issue. Be ye a butcher, baker or candle stick maker....you still have to follow the rules (whatever they may be).
Rules are rules. If you bend the rules a little bit, then others want to bend them a lot.