Thanks Bogie. I am still considering it and have been for over a year. I don't have the specific rules in front of me either, but I have been told that Bison Valley owners can do some things but not others.

By reading these boards though, one senses an undercurrent of unhappiness in some Villagers. Yes, I realize that no community is perfect, and it's a very small percentage, but it will probably be enough to keep me away in the end. I am used to living in A-1 surroundings where the "rules" fit on a single page. Before that I lived in a neighborhood with pretty loose restrictions, and it was nice. The more I learn about the Villages though, the more uncomfortable I become. It's not the restrictions that bother me so much as it is the volume of the self-appointed "cops" that trouble me. The last thing I want to do is keep an attorney on retainer to explain to me what I can and cannot do with my life.

Back to the specific issue of pools and rec centers, it is my understanding that, by law, it is impossible to keep the general public out of these facilities, that is, non-amenity paying people. I forgot the specifics, but I do remember it having to do with public access, highways, or some such thing.

I will say this to everyone though: If I could do it all over again, I would have become a lawyer. A person could make a killing in the Villages. Where there's a perpetual stack of rules and money flowing, there is ripe opportunity to skim a percentage off the top.

With all due respect,
 

I find it hard to believe that your information is on track. Would you have us believe that with all the lawyers in the area, practicing and former, that none of them would have already taken this to court?

You say you live where there are "rules". Is it ok for those not living there to come in and do as they please while you are bound by the rules?

We are not self-appointed cops, as you put it. I just don't like the idea of paying for something and then becoming unable to use what I pay for because others want something for free or very little cost to themselves. I am not unhappy; quite the contrary. I would just like to be able to stay that way and always have access to that for which I pay and am quite willing to do.

Don't be put off by what you read here. There is a fund of misinformation here.

The restrictions here are no more onerous than the last two sub-divisions where I lived. ( Both had their share of self appointed "cops". ) I was in real estate prior to moving here and I can attest rules are better than no rules.

Amenities supported by residents are NOT open to the public. They are the property of the CDD (that's us).

Bison Valley is a very small village. Somewhere in this thread the number is mentioned but I believe it is less than 200 homes. The population here is pushing 80,000 so Bison Valley is a drop in the bucket. Evidently, for whatever reason, the developer gave those residence some or all of the priviledges of the rest of us. Some are not happy with this. I am not happy with it on principle but it is his/her prerogative. If I were buying here now knowing what I know I would not consider it a deal breaker. In fact, I wouldn't even consider it.

I am going to borrow from Ella Fitzgerald who is supposed to have said " I have been rich and I have been poor, rich is better". My version is " I have lived all over the US and I have live here eight years, here is better".

Outsiderwithinterest==you are right that you can arrive at these rec centers and pools via public roads but you should be denied access without a Village Card--either guest pass or Resident Pass. I am sure you have heard of Private Clubs, Country Clubs, etc., where you have to pay a fee to "belong." You would be denied access to them--regardless of what public road you used to get there. It is the same with our amenity fees---we pay them to have access to pools, rec center activities, etc. for ourselves and our guests. I really don't have a problem with the Bison residents using our golf cart trails--- I don't think there are many that do but I do appreciate all the people that work for The Villages. They are the ones that help make this a wonderful place to live but I also realize that jobs are scarce and that we should take care of each other.

your understanding based on who or what? Sorry but this how rumors get started. I believe what you are saying is hearsay, I doubt there ever were specifics.

The entertainment office is run by the developer and not the CDD. Hence no amenity fees are used for any entertainment (the squares, Katie Bells, Savannah Center, etc.) So, regardless of whether we like "droopy pants teenagers" at the squares, neither we nor the CDD have any say in whether they are to be allowed.

I'm please that you have proof to the contrary. We all want to hear the specifics of your correct information that rebuts the incorrect information.

Huh???...........:confused:

:agree:

It seems like the biggest problem Villagers are having is the free use of our amenities. Why doesn’t Bison Valley get together and assess the homeowner’s say $1500 (similar but different to our bond fee when we purchase our homes) – which would give them $150,000 for 100 homes – I don’t know how many homes are there – so I thought I would be conservative. That would be a great start for them to build a pool and a rec center of their own for meetings and get togethers – even have the bocce and shuffleboard courts. They can then charge every home an amenity fee of say $50 a month - again using the 100 home number - that would be $5000 a month for upkeep. They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available.

It's not confusing at all.

You said that "Outsiderwithinterest's" comments were hearsay and that they were the stuff of rumors. I'm assuming that you have the real facts to rebut what you label as "hearsay" and their source. Failing that, what you post is hearsay as well.

Maybe I should have just asked "outsiderwithinterest's" to back up there statement.

Don't Think So
 

You are right, it would be a good way for them to have their own facilities. The problem I see is with your last statement, "They would have a place to call their own – and any of their family members that live in the Villages would be able to spend quality time at Bison Valley – which would now have similar recreational options available." Isn't that the same problem, only in reverse now?:confused:

Good point, dilliywho. This thread is a fund of misinformation and contradictions.

I think you are making the assumption that Bison Valley would adopt the same rules and restrictions that we have here in the Villages. We do not know that – maybe since they are a ‘family friendly’ community they would welcome family and friends in the tri county community to enjoy their amenities? Who are we to say – and it was only an idea. People who purchased homes in the Villages knew the rules and restrictions when they bought their homes and for many that is why they decided to live here.

I have a friend who works for the entertainment part of The Villages. This the area that books all of the nightly entertainment in the town squares. I was told all of the entertainment was paid for by the drink shacks on the cornes of the squares. The more people that buy booze, the more money there is for entertainment. So they will not restrict it to just Villagers, but keep it open to the general public because this way it benefits everyone.

A lot of good points being made here, and a lot of misconceptions. It is a complicated issue(s) so there will never be one answer that makes everyone happy.

Myself, I tend to lean towards the "more restrictive" side but am not totally in that camp. I really want our facilities for our (amenities paying residents) use but I see the need for exceptions. A lot has been made over support groups that meet once or twice a month (i.e. Parkinsons, AA, etc.). Surrounding communities don't have the population to support such groups so I think these should be allowed to have non-TV members. Outsiders use of our facilities for these events consists of coming to a meeting room in a rec center once or twice a month. NOTHING ELSE! I can live with that and think it is a good neighbor thing to do.

Sports is another area where I see some sharing. Visiting teams (softball, etc.) come here to play TV teams. TV teams go there to play them. Technically, those "visitors" are using our sports facilities and don't live here or pay amenities. I see no problem there. We also have some "deals" with area schools. TV High School Swim Team uses TV pools for practice and events. Again, I think that is acceptable.

Someone mentioned "selling" our amenities to outsiders. I am against that but it has already been done. Freedom Pointe is not part of TV but their residents have full amenity privileges. If "they" (the proverbial "they") can sell our amenities to Freedom Pointe, what's to stop them from selling them to Water Oaks, Spruce Creek South, or anyone else?

There was a lot of talk about the squares. They are not public land, they are private property. Ownership is not clear as a bell to me but I think it is in the developers hands through some sort of corporate deal. Why do you think we can walk around either square with drinks in our hands? It is because they are private property (albeit accessible by the public) so all those "open container" laws don't apply.

Public access to public places (i.e. most of our roads) is the law. Public access to private property is at the discretion, for the most part, of the owner. The owner of the squares opted for pretty open access for the public for business reasons, I presume. The owners of TV recreation facilities (that would be TV residents via their CDDs) opted for fairly closed access to their facilities. I think our real discussion has been defining "fairly closed" and how we enforce that.

It appears to me to be one of those issues that has no single, good answer.

TV residents and their respective CDD's do not own the recreation facilities. Never have and never will. They are owned by the developer and/or the two special CDD's (VCCDD and SLCDD) which the developer controls.

But aside from that, you've brought up some interesting points.

Just what I was thinking, just the reverse of what you are saying now. There are 99 homes in Bison Valley. The Villages runs the HOA in Bison Valley. But now that the majority of the lots are sold we are in the position to vote them out and vote our own in. Seems everyone thnks we have full access to TV amenities. We have no access what so ever except the Cart Path entrance off of Woodridge. Other than that nothing what so ever. The only ones from Bison Valley that have access to the pools would be those that have family members that are Village Residents. We even have Village residents that sold their homes and bought in Bison Valley to escape the bonds and all the politcal mombo jumbo that you read on here, and in the process gave up all the access they had to TV pools, clubs, golf and all that.


Somewhere along the line as gossip or rumors go, someone threw a line of incorrect info and the rest bit it hook, sinker and all. We are owned by The Villages and even must get approval from the ARC to make changes to the property site, just as if we were Village Residnets ourselves. The only problem would be that we have to do all of that, but the Village decompliance does not patrol our area. Kinda wierd how it works..

Now alot of people have tried to buy into Bison Valley, but for the most part everyone I know that lives in there either work for The Villages in some way or part or have family members who are Village Residents. There are some rental homes in there. There are members of TV sales staff that live in there, and maybe they have special access to Villages recreational spots I dont know. BUt for the most part the rest of us dont.


that would sum it up for BISON VALLEY. such a little place that caused so much headache. Hard to believe.... As I said there are more people that park at the squares and rent golf carts and use the cart paths more then we ever do. Dont here much about that. Had some folks this weekend riding in there on rental golf carts checking all the areas out. They were from Oregon. but they just rented the cart from Lake Sumter Landing and had full access to all cart paths. Now do they have a special charge on the rental for the cart paths??????????

Ed, you are correct in that the VCCDD and SLCDD are controlled by the developer as they are "elected" by him as the only property owner in their districts.

However, Florida statues have considerable control over them. It is all explained at this site www.flsenate.gov/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0190/titl0190.htm&StatuteYear=2007&Title=->2007->Chapter%20190

A test of real ownership would be the ability to sell their property. Can the two special CDD's sell any property such as rec centers,golf courses, etc? At an orientation I attended when I first moved here it was categorically statd they can not sell the property.

There were sound business reasons the developer set up the special districts. Among other things, some faction could get control and effectively stop his progress in its tracks. I have been there and it is not nice. There are no winners.

When build out is complete will things change? I have no idea but my guess is it will be minor. There will be some infighting and squabbling but we will be so well established we will likely carry on as usual.