[jane032657]

Freedom Pointe's new Assisted Living is not a buy in. Also just as a side note, you are absolutely correct that if the ALF is not is The Villages, the residents do not have access to the amenities. It may be interesting to note that the majority of ALF residents do not use the amenities because of all the ALF offers, plus their own mobility and health issues. So if that is the case for yourself or your loved one, looking at the new Emeritus in Oxford, or the new HarborChase in Lady Lake, or some of the others a throw from the actual perimeter of The Villages, is a good idea. There is also a new one approved for Spanish Springs and I believe two being built in The Brownwood area. There is no lack of choice, only lack of price competition!

[SantaClaus]

There have been some very helpful replies and I'm most grateful. I am curious about Freedom Pointe. My parents, who live independently up the road at Spruce Creek have been considering them, but said after their tour that "membership" was a "couple hundred thousand"!? Anybody know what this is about? It sounds like they are pre-paying for a housing and care package?

[JourneyOfLife]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

There have been some very helpful replies and I'm most grateful. I am curious about Freedom Pointe. My parents, who live independently up the road at Spruce Creek have been considering them, but said after their tour that "membership" was a "couple hundred thousand"!? Anybody know what this is about? It sounds like they are pre-paying for a housing and care package?

Sounds like they may be a CCRC or have a CCRC option. This articles gives some general information about CCRCs. The terms vary depending on the facility, type of contract, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Care

[Villages Kahuna]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

We are still in the "planning for retirement" stage and I've been able to find lots of great info about budgeting for the "active" stage of our retirement at TV, but I'm finding little to no info about the costs associated with assisted living, again, preferably at the villages. There is an 11 year age difference between my wife and I and I don't want one of us to have to give up an active lifestyle because the other needs a bit more care. As near as I can tell there are two facilities for TV residents, but I've been unable to find any kind of ball-park pricing. I just need a very rough idea so that I plug it into my planning, so any help would be appreciated.

It's a daunting problem, particularly given the age difference you've noted.

I can tell you that I managed the finances of two elderly people during the final years of their lives. Both had assets that I thought they could never outlive. In both cases, I'm talking liquid assets well into six figures...very well into six figures.

Both ladies were placed in nationally known assisted living facilities. Neither had medical conditions that required anything like hourly care and attention or frequent hospitalization. The cost--several years ago--ran between $10-11,000 per month. Well in excess of $100,000 per year. I'm certain those costs would be more expensive in 2014.

Both women lived long enough that their assets were completely exhausted and I had to apply to have them placed on Medicaid, where the state pays for their care. One of the requirements of Medicaid in almost every state--Medicaid is a state program--is that the patient can have no assets remaining and any income above a very modest amount has to be assigned to the state. In Illinois, all assets of any kind and any income above $30 per month had to be assigned to the state as an offset of their payment of the nursing home, doctor's and hospital bills. The procedure was similar in Michigan, where the other woman was institutionalized.

Fortunately both assisted living facilities reacted to the new financial situation of both women the same way. They arranged to place them in "Medicaid beds" they had available and simply placed both in that category. From their point-of-view there was no real change in their level of care. In fact, both were permitted to stay in the same rooms where they had been living. But nursing homes are not required to act as they did. They could simply say that they had no room for Medicaid patients--they are only paid about 30% of their normal fees by Medicaid--and send them to a facility that cares for indigent Medicaid patients. Believe me, those types of low cost facilities aren't places where you or a loved one would want to spend the end of your life.

As a starting point for your planning, while this anecdotal information might be disturbing, I hope it helps. Be aware that the situation regarding Medicaid is far worse now than even a few years ago. The federal government has dramatically reduced it's funding to the states to help pay for Medicaid. In some states--Florida is one I believe--the state simply does not have the money to pay for the care of all the elderly that need it and cannot pay for such care themselves. It's a critically serious problem we seldom read about. Do some 'Googling' to research that problem yourself.

[ncarvalho]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

We are still in the "planning for retirement" stage and I've been able to find lots of great info about budgeting for the "active" stage of our retirement at TV, but I'm finding little to no info about the costs associated with assisted living, again, preferably at the villages. There is an 11 year age difference between my wife and I and I don't want one of us to have to give up an active lifestyle because the other needs a bit more care. As near as I can tell there are two facilities for TV residents, but I've been unable to find any kind of ball-park pricing. I just need a very rough idea so that I plug it into my planning, so any help would be appreciated.

HI,
We checked about , and this was over a year ago, an assisted living for my mother-in-law - Because she was on the low-income, SS retirement. About 20 miles from TV, we found a place for her and at that time it was around $2700-3000, as basic costs, no meds included, just for the monthly costs at the facility. I was surprised, because I thought it would have been much more. I am not retired yet, but I am budgeting at current prices (2014) close to $3000/month, all other things taken care. Best of luck.

[JourneyOfLife]

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

It's a daunting problem, particularly given the age difference you've noted.

I can tell you that I managed the finances of two elderly people during the final years of their lives. Both had assets that I thought they could never outlive. In both cases, I'm talking liquid assets well into six figures...very well into six figures.

Both ladies were placed in nationally known assisted living facilities. Neither had medical conditions that required anything like hourly care and attention or frequent hospitalization. The cost--several years ago--ran between $10-11,000 per month. Well in excess of $100,000 per year. I'm certain those costs would be more expensive in 2014.

Both women lived long enough that their assets were completely exhausted and I had to apply to have them placed on Medicaid, where the state pays for their care. One of the requirements of Medicaid in almost every state--Medicaid is a state program--is that the patient can have no assets remaining and any income above a very modest amount has to be assigned to the state. In Illinois, all assets of any kind and any income above $30 per month had to be assigned to the state as an offset of their payment of the nursing home, doctor's and hospital bills. The procedure was similar in Michigan, where the other woman was institutionalized.

Fortunately both assisted living facilities reacted to the new financial situation of both women the same way. They arranged to place them in "Medicaid beds" they had available and simply placed both in that category. From their point-of-view there was no real change in their level of care. In fact, both were permitted to stay in the same rooms where they had been living. But nursing homes are not required to act as they did. They could simply say that they had no room for Medicaid patients--they are only paid about 30% of their normal fees by Medicaid--and send them to a facility that cares for indigent Medicaid patients. Believe me, those types of low cost facilities aren't places where you or a loved one would want to spend the end of your life.

As a starting point for your planning, while this anecdotal information might be disturbing, I hope it helps. Be aware that the situation regarding Medicaid is far worse now than even a few years ago. The federal government has dramatically reduced it's funding to the states to help pay for Medicaid. In some states--Florida is one I believe--the state simply does not have the money to pay for the care of all the elderly that need it and cannot pay for such care themselves. It's a critically serious problem we seldom read about. Do some 'Googling' to research that problem yourself.

I must be missing something. $10k a month seems awful high for an assisted living facilty.

[OBXNana]

My mother was $8,000.00 per month in 2009 for her private facility. There was no buy in and the fee was on a monthly basis. All meals were included, help with personal needs, and she was given her meds as prescribed. In her case the facility did not participate in Medicaid and we saw many people moved to other facility's when their funds ran out. This facility had a great reputation, was clean, and far less expensive than many I visited when the need came for her to move from her home. In our area, $10,000.00 for assisted care is not that unusual.

[gomoho]

I can only talk at this point about memory care, but, am currently looking at moving my mom from a memory care center in Florida to one in North Georgia and was astounded at the difference in cost.

She started in assisted living in Florida in 2005 at $2000k a month. 9 years later she is in memory care in Florida paying over $5000k a month. The two facilities I am looking at north of Atlanta are under $4000k for the same level of care. I am not talking quality cause I don't have that information - I am talking level of care. I

It is ridiculous what Florida is charging because they can - had no idea how bad it was. Actually the rates I am hearing in north Georgia and southern
Tennessee are $3900 a month all inclusive. That is a big, big difference.

As far as planning for it. I can only thank my brother, who is a financial planner, for investing our mother's money wisely when our father passed away so she has more than enough to cover her expenses. Between her ss, pension, and my dad's pension she actually withdrew less than she made in her invesments made last year. So I guess to make this long story short you should probably talk to a certified financial planner to figure out what your best course would be.

[jane032657]

I have operated two five star assisted livings. One was a national company, international actually.

If you have little need for assistance and you have a one bedroom apartment, in our area of in Seattle where I came from, the costs are very similar. About $4300 for a one bedroom, about $3500 for a studio, and then up from there. If you need care in assisted living, not memory care, you can get up to about $6000. If you need memory care, you can get up to $9,000 plus if intensive care. Nursing Home care is about $9500 and up.

If you are paying $6000 for basic assisted living, you are in a luxury assisted living. If you cannot afford that, and most cannot, you can find one for less.

If you have questions, contact me. I do not charge for a conversation.

Also companies that take you to look at assisted living and do not charge you get a commission from the assisted living equal to about one month rent and care. Not totally objective in helping you choose....

I do not get commissions, I charge an hourly rate for taking someone around but their needs is all I am thinking about and I help them choose based on their situation both in regard to care, finances and lifestyle.


The Other Daughter: Assisted Living and Elder Care Services

Jane Bloom
janeinthevillages@gmail.com

[SusanOfWoodbury]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

My benefits package took a big hit when the elves unionized ;-)

Need to throw in my 2 cents. Unless you have long term insurance, once your money runs out where are u going to go!!!

I believe people need to stay in there homes as long as they can!

[Bonnevie]

I'm trying to put off taking social security for as long as possible for just this reason. I know when my mother went into assisted living, having social security and my father's pension helped a lot to defray the monthly cost.

[Bizdoc]

Originally Posted by SantaClaus

There have been some very helpful replies and I'm most grateful. I am curious about Freedom Pointe. My parents, who live independently up the road at Spruce Creek have been considering them, but said after their tour that "membership" was a "couple hundred thousand"!? Anybody know what this is about? It sounds like they are pre-paying for a housing and care package?

Freedom Pointe is (except for direct entry into ALF or skilled nursing), a continuing care retirement community. CCRCs generally (altho it varies by state) are a life interest in your apartment with guaranteed availability of ALF and skilled nursing when you need it. Your buy in is, in part, prepaying for that guarantee and part (but not all) of the costs of ALF and skilled. Your heirs may (or may not - depends on the state and the facility) get part of the buy in returned when you are gone.

We looked at CCRCs in several cities (including FP). While it is true that they have activities at the CCRC, what they offer may or may not be what you want. One thing we found useful was to pay attention to the folks we passed in the halls and common areas during tours. How many are smiling and happy?

After considering roughly 20 CCRCs (and looking at info at another couple dozen), we decided to buy a house here rather than go the CCRC route.

[JourneyOfLife]

Originally Posted by Bizdoc

Freedom Pointe is (except for direct entry into ALF or skilled nursing), a continuing care retirement community. CCRCs generally (altho it varies by state) are a life interest in your apartment with guaranteed availability of ALF and skilled nursing when you need it. Your buy in is, in part, prepaying for that guarantee and part (but not all) of the costs of ALF and skilled. Your heirs may (or may not - depends on the state and the facility) get part of the buy in returned when you are gone.

We looked at CCRCs in several cities (including FP). While it is true that they have activities at the CCRC, what they offer may or may not be what you want. One thing we found useful was to pay attention to the folks we passed in the halls and common areas during tours. How many are smiling and happy?

After considering roughly 20 CCRCs (and looking at info at another couple dozen), we decided to buy a house here rather than go the CCRC route.

I would also add that there are differences in CCRCs and even the Contracts for CCRCs.

I would like to see legislation that would standardized and improve financial safeguards and protections for customers.

The model still seems to be evolving.

[FloridaShrimp]

This also does not answer your question about costs for assisted living, but an option is in-home care, keeping you both in your home. I would guess that those costs would be less, if it is a workable option, since you won't be paying for overhead.