[PennBF]

I seriously don't understand what the input from "Golf Eagles" has to do with my post? Mine deals with the fairness of the distribution and abuses regarding the distribution and usage of the vaccine while Golf Eagles deals with the technical medical structure and properties of the virus/vaccine and its preventative qualities. Those are two very different subjects!!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by PennBF

I seriously don't understand what the input from "Golf Eagles" has to do with my post? Mine deals with the fairness of the distribution and abuses regarding the distribution and usage of the vaccine while Golf Eagles deals with the technical medical structure and properties of the virus/vaccine and its preventative qualities. Those are two very different subjects!!

Here is Golfing Eagle's post at 7:10 this morning, which deals with distribution and abuses of the vaccine;


"Oh, and one more thing. We were able to develop not one ore two, but three vaccines in record time, mass produce them and are now faced with the difficult phase of distributing them. Why some people want to turn that into some sort of lame political statement is beyond my understanding. So ONE healthcare worker in NY got his vaccine and ONE politician in Florida got it. SO WHAT????? Many Florida vaccination sites are first come, first serve. To imply this is some vast conspiracy of the rich and elite over the working class is a level of delusion not shared by even Marx or Lenin."

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

No, nothing has changed, viruses have behaved this way for millions of years. Fauci's comment was before the vaccine was developed, and from what I read most likely way out of context---he knows this stuff better than I do.

Specifically, COVID needs its spike protein to enter cells. The vaccines attack the spike protein. No spike protein=no cellular entry=no viral reproduction=no transmission, and Tony knows that.

Probably he was trying to emphasize that no vaccine will instantly end the pandemic, the powers that be do not want everyone getting careless as the finish line approaches

If there is a conspiracy, it's the one where people believe that a vaccinated person, who is protected from the virus can somehow pass this same virus on to a new person. That's not how it works.

The MRNA vaccine reprograms your own cells to produce a protein that is found on the spike protein on the virus. Once your body find this invader(that you created) it destroys it with Tcells and ultimately makes Bcell antibodies and hopefully memory tcells. Therefore, once you get an actual exposure to the genuine Virus, your body knows exactly how to handle it. You never get sick, the cells that do get infected are destroyed and therefore you can't shed enough virus to get anyone else sick.

Yes, there are therapeutics that mask symptoms. Theses aren't vaccines.

I think what Fauci was talking about was that you can STILL get the virus in you. That's always been true. What the virus cannot do in a vaccinated person is convert your cellular machinery over to make massive quantities of itself and sicken you in the process. It can't do this because the vaccine told your body what to be on the alert for.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Malsua

If there is a conspiracy, it's the one where people believe that a vaccinated person, who is protected from the virus can somehow pass this same virus on to a new person. That's not how it works.

The MRNA vaccine reprograms your own cells to produce a protein that is found on the spike protein on the virus. Once your body find this invader(that you created) it destroys it with Tcells and ultimately makes Bcell antibodies and hopefully memory tcells. Therefore, once you get an actual exposure to the genuine Virus, your body knows exactly how to handle it. You never get sick, the cells that do get infected are destroyed and therefore you can't shed enough virus to get anyone else sick.

Yes, there are therapeutics that mask symptoms. Theses aren't vaccines.

I think what Fauci was talking about was that you can STILL get the virus in you. That's always been true. What the virus cannot do in a vaccinated person is convert your cellular machinery over to make massive quantities of itself and sicken you in the process. It can do this because the vaccine told your body what to be on the alert for.

Thank you. Hopefully you stated it better than I did and people might understand.

[Bill14564]

Originally Posted by golfing eagles

.....

Therefore, the vaccinated person does not get the disease, does not replicate the virus, and does not pass it on

The message from the CDC does not relay the same level of certainty about passing it on to others. From this CDC page:


Do I need to wear a mask and avoid close contact with others if I have received 2 doses of the vaccine?

Yes. While experts learn more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide under real-life conditions, it will be important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to us to help stop this pandemic, like covering your mouth and nose with a mask, washing hands often, and staying at least 6 feet away from others. .....

When can I stop wearing a mask and avoiding close contact with others after I have been vaccinated?

There is not enough information currently available to say if or when CDC will stop recommending that people wear masks and avoid close contact with others to help prevent the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. Experts need to understand more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide before making that decision. .....

Perhaps the CDC understands the virus and vaccine exactly the way you do but are providing this guidance for reasons other than those stated.

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

The message from the CDC does not relay the same level of certainty about passing it on to others. From this CDC page:


Do I need to wear a mask and avoid close contact with others if I have received 2 doses of the vaccine?

Yes. While experts learn more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide under real-life conditions, it will be important for everyone to continue using all the tools available to us to help stop this pandemic, like covering your mouth and nose with a mask, washing hands often, and staying at least 6 feet away from others. .....

When can I stop wearing a mask and avoiding close contact with others after I have been vaccinated?

There is not enough information currently available to say if or when CDC will stop recommending that people wear masks and avoid close contact with others to help prevent the spread of the virus that causes COVID-19. Experts need to understand more about the protection that COVID-19 vaccines provide before making that decision. .....

Perhaps the CDC understands the virus and vaccine exactly the way you do but are providing this guidance for reasons other than those stated.

They're doing exactly what I would expect them to do----playing it conservative. And I'm sure you know what happens if they don't-----people will be careless 10 minutes after getting their first dose, skip the second dose, wade maskless into a crowd because they plan on getting the vaccine tomorrow, etc.

[Malsua]

Originally Posted by Bill14564

Perhaps the CDC understands the virus and vaccine exactly the way you do but are providing this guidance for reasons other than those stated.

I believe the reason they are saying this is that they aren't sure how well circulating anti-bodies will prevent areas of the nasopharynx(the back of your nose) from becoming infected and start shedding virus before the immune system shuts it down. It is understandable to use the precautionary principle in the face of unknowns.

The problem I have with this is that anyone who has a raging virus infection in their nose is, by all definitions, going to be symptomatic. It takes a raging infection to generate enough shedding to infect others.

A study out of China recently with over 5000 participants found that 126 truly asymptomatic people spread it to exactly zero others. These people were not vaccinated but infected.

Everyone who is symptomatic should be quarantined or under multiple layers of PPE. A mouth gator is not enough.

If you are not showing symptoms and you're a month out from your second shot, your chance of infecting anyone else is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from zero.

Again, understand that the only way you infect others is if your body is making trillions of virus particles and spreading them all over the place. Your body makes these from infected cells. If you have the vaccine, you can't make the virus. Not making it? Not infecting anyone.

[PennBF]

Wow, I see why the Moderator's have a hard time. A simple question as to why some were able to abuse the need for the virus vaccine by pushing the Health Care workers of out line, allegedly because they were connected, has been distorted to how the vaccine works to prevent the virus. There is absolutely no correlation between the two subjects. However the surprising point is how many ignore the abuse and either try to justify it which is a further abuse of these already abusive acts or try to divert the subject in hopes it will be covered up or go away. As my 100 year old grandfather would say, "what is this world coming to? Where are the ones who stand up for what is right have gone? The simple and hopefully understood question was: Do you support the Health Care workers and Assisted Liven elderly receiving the virus before those allegedly connected? Please stay on the subject!!

[golfing eagles]

Originally Posted by PennBF

Wow, I see why the Moderator's have a hard time. A simple question as to why some were able to abuse the need for the virus vaccine by pushing the Health Care workers of out line, allegedly because they were connected, has been distorted to how the vaccine works to prevent the virus. There is absolutely no correlation between the two subjects. However the surprising point is how many ignore the abuse and either try to justify it which is a further abuse of these already abusive acts or try to divert the subject in hopes it will be covered up or go away. As my 100 year old grandfather would say, "what is this world coming to? Where are the ones who stand up for what is right have gone? The simple and hopefully understood question was: Do you support the Health Care workers and Assisted Liven elderly receiving the virus before those allegedly connected? Please stay on the subject!!

The posts got a little off topic after a very nice post by GG was responded by calling her "wrong" and that a vaccinated person could spread the virus. That misinformation was so egregious that it required a response. Then another poster, who doesn't understand how these things work, chimed in with some old, out of context quote.

But to get back on topic, I just don't understand the OP. Distribution of this vaccine from 3 different sources to 50 states, thousands of hospitals and hundreds of thousands of doctors must be a nightmare, not to mention the continued production needed probably being outstripped by the demand.

The OP stated a relative that is a healthcare worker was getting his shot in NY today, but then cited some incident in Florida, not documented, of a "connected" person or a politician getting a dose before healthcare workers. Perhaps I didn't understand his point, but it looked to me like he was implying that Florida had a policy of vaccinating the rich, powerful, or politically connected before healthcare workers, nursing home residents and seniors with the blessing of the governor. That is simply BS

Want a shot in Florida? There are multiple first come, first served sites for seniors that do not require wealth or political connections. To the OP---please correct me if you feel I misconstrued your post

[CoachKandSportsguy]

So, coachk, my better half, is on hospital senior staff calls at her medical center. The states' health departments are in charge of rules of distribution. hospitals have been sent doses of vaccine for distribution. The hospitals are responsible for setting up and administering the vaccines for round 1 / So hospitals can make their own distribution decisions.

So first, state health departments are staffed by beaurocrats who know how to write requirements. however, the requirements can have execution issues if they try to get too specific on the requirements. But also, the requirements can miss certain groups of people, such as private practice physicians not affiliated with hospitals.

Likewise, finding extra nurses, and non hospital settings to administer with parking, socially distanced waiting and observation areas, and medical response for reactions takes time. But the doses start showing up with a life span, and refridgeration requirements, so the initial beaucratic rules are cumbersome to execute quickly.

So in light of this experience, and shelf life, etc, there will be changes in directions and not a perfectly fair down to the individual distribution process. So enough with the SJW whining spending time finding imperfections to your expected outcome

FYI, coachk got her first shot and she had nothing but a sore arm after 48 hours. 3 of her staff got their first today.

just be patient and give the very stressed health care system a break, and help out if you can by being on time, and following directions. .

sportsguy

[PennBF]

One last shot at clarifying the point that was made. (1) In NY the Health Care Workers were the first to get the vaccine as demonstrated by a rule in a Rehab Center. (2) In the Villages allegedly 5-6 politically or developer connected were the first to get the vaccine.
They were not connected to any Health Care Facility or Assisted living elderly. (3) How can this happen so high risk residents can be pushed out of line for allegedly "connected" person(s) who are not in this high risk category? Simple question? This is not a complicated question and a simple who do you support to be the first to get the vaccine? An alleged politically connected resident or a high risk resident? Can't make it simpler than that ! Oh yes, the alleged politically corrected could have declined the vaccine in favor
of the high risk but that would have meant doing the right thing!!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by PennBF

One last shot at clarifying the point that was made. (1) In NY the Health Care Workers were the first to get the vaccine as demonstrated by a rule in a Rehab Center. (2) In the Villages allegedly 5-6 politically or developer connected were the first to get the vaccine.
They were not connected to any Health Care Facility or Assisted living elderly. (3) How can this happen so high risk residents can be pushed out of line for allegedly "connected" person(s) who are not in this high risk category? Simple question? This is not a complicated question and a simple who do you support to be the first to get the vaccine? An alleged politically connected resident or a high risk resident? Can't make it simpler than that ! Oh yes, the alleged politically corrected could have declined the vaccine in favor
of the high risk but that would have meant doing the right thing!!

WHERE have you heard for sure that ANYONE in THE VILLAGES GOT THE SHOT at all? I did hear yesterday that one of my friends who lives in The Villages was able to book an appointment for the Covid-19 vaccine at a Publix in Marion County.

I did hear that our Sumter county first batch of vaccines meant for us, somehow got redirected to Gainesville for their medical staff. I cannot prove that, but my husband told me that and he is usually quite good at checking the veracity of things he tells me.

P.S. I tried to get an appointment at Publix at Marion County but now they are all booked up.

I know, knowing people as I do, that there will be some who use sneaky, underhanded ways to get ANYTHING they want. But most Villagers do not. I don't know why. As a group most of us are pretty good scouts.

[biker1]

Huh? Lots of people in The Villages have received the vaccine. For example, my wife.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

WHERE have you heard for sure that ANYONE in THE VILLAGES GOT THE SHOT at all? I did hear yesterday that one of my friends who lives in The Villages was able to book an appointment for the Covid-19 vaccine at a Publix in Marion County.

I did hear that our Sumter county first batch of vaccines meant for us, somehow got redirected to Gainesville for their medical staff. I cannot prove that, but my husband told me that and he is usually quite good at checking the veracity of things he tells me.

P.S. I tried to get an appointment at Publix at Marion County but now they are all booked up.

I know, knowing people as I do, that there will be some who use sneaky, underhanded ways to get ANYTHING they want. But most Villagers do not. I don't know why. As a group most of us are pretty good scouts.

[PennBF]

If you check the Archives at the Village Sun Newspaper you will see some pictures of the alleged 5-6 politically or developers connected people getting the vaccine shot along with the Governor watching the proceedings! If that fails you can see the picture in the Electronic News.

[TCNY61]

Originally Posted by PennBF

To clarify some misinformation in some responses. ALL employees that wanted the vaccine got it in the medical facility in New York!! Not just one! It's pretty bad when there is a "rush" to justify not giving available vaccine to the ones that need it, (e.g. Assisted Living Elderly, Health Care workers, et al) and trying to support those that pushed them out of line for themselves. Because no reasonable person or caring person would justify that action then it is reasonable to assume the ones behind the attempt to hide the issue are receiving some form of "payback".

My mother in law is in a nursing home in NY. They have not all gotten the vaccine yet. They were not going to give it to her because they didn't have enough but my wife convinced them to give it to her this past Monday. Many more are still waiting.