[Taj44]

Originally Posted by K9-Lovers

Shadow, you shouldn't have to act defensively for merely starting a thread with a newspaper clip on a topic that is of interest to Villagers. You did nothing wrong. You provided information that is timely and is being discussed on other threads.

People take offense easily. Especially when a regular poster's ethics are questioned, like Graciegirl.

But the mere act of posting a newspaper clip on a timely and pertinent topic? Thanks for providing the info.

I agree. It is the news, and I'm interested in hearing about it. Don't kill the messenger. If you want to be angry, direct that energy to the people who committed the poaching.

Thanks Shadow, for the update.

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by pooh

You've never answered the question Shadow, why did you post the link? Do you want to keep discussion of the story going? Do you want to keep us informed as to what has happened? Do you want to take aim at the Morses or Raineys? No offense intended, I'm just curious as to your reason for the link.

Thanks.

That is a good question. Does this shadow fellow think he is doing us a community service by always posting negatively. I have read his previous postings. He is very consistent.

[bimmertl]

Here's a link to some information on Rainey Construction.

http://www.manta.com/c/mmlcrhk/rainey-construction

It indicates Rainey Construction is a private company and has annual revenue of between $20-$50 milliion. No doubt the vast majority, if not all, of it's revenue comes from construction projects in The Villages. Rainey Trail is obviously named after him.

Considering this firms involvement in the Villages, this article is news we should be made aware of. It's also something you won't see in the Daily Sun.

Thanks to The Shadow for posting the article. You can form your own conclusions regarding Rainey/Morse et al from reading the articles, but it helps to be informed as to what any vendor who does work here is involved in.

http://www.laureloutlook.com/article...ts/12poach.txt

Notice the lack of yellow journalism you see in the Orlando Sentinel story as described by the Shadow anyway.

The article from MT describes one of the allegations against James Rainey as:

"€ Two misdemeanor charges of waste of game in Big Horn County in September 2009. Rainey is accused of killing two elk, then removing only the head from one elk and allowing the meat from both carcasses to rot."

It does not go into the use of a chainsaw. This would seem to be something a prosecutor would want to point out when telling a jury about the case he or she would prove. It plays on your emotion. I cannot think of many other ways of removing an elk's head from its body except those that are just as graphic in their description.

[LuvItHere]

In November 2008, Rainey shot a male elk and directed them to take it "up the hill with a four-wheeler," then cut the legs "with a chainsaw for better positioning of the elk for photographs," Staton said.

The elk meat was cleaned and chopped but later spoiled inside an unplugged freezer. Game wardens dug up holes on the ranches where the bones — specifically ribcages and spinal columns — had been buried.

"Most Montana hunters find it totally egregious to waste the meat," Gibson said. "Most people in Montana eat what they kill."

Hunters can bring game meat to local processing plants in Montana that will clean, cut, and freeze it for a nominal fee, he said. The meat is then donated to local food banks for the hungry.

The name of this thread was obviously meant to shock us and it does. The whole lot of allegations sound repugnant. I'm an animal lover from a family of hunters, and I've hunted myself.

But in the clipping above, I don't see the difference between sawing off the legs for a picture, and sawing the legs off while field dressing the carcass or dressing it at the meat processing plant as described above.

It seems to me that the chainsaw and leg chopping was meant to inject some PETA-style "horror" into the allegations.

[samhass]

There is no gentle way to dress out an elk or any large animal. Does anyone think the elk would prefer an axe over the chainsaw?

Originally Posted by LuvItHere

In November 2008, Rainey shot a male elk and directed them to take it "up the hill with a four-wheeler," then cut the legs "with a chainsaw for better positioning of the elk for photographs," Staton said.

The elk meat was cleaned and chopped but later spoiled inside an unplugged freezer. Game wardens dug up holes on the ranches where the bones — specifically ribcages and spinal columns — had been buried.

"Most Montana hunters find it totally egregious to waste the meat," Gibson said. "Most people in Montana eat what they kill."

Hunters can bring game meat to local processing plants in Montana that will clean, cut, and freeze it for a nominal fee, he said. The meat is then donated to local food banks for the hungry.

The name of this thread was obviously meant to shock us and it does. The whole lot of allegations sound repugnant. I'm an animal lover from a family of hunters, and I've hunted myself.

But in the clipping above, I don't see the difference between sawing off the legs for a picture, and sawing the legs off while field dressing the carcass or dressing it at the meat processing plant as described above.

It seems to me that the chainsaw and leg chopping was meant to inject some PETA-style "horror" into the allegations.

[BobKat1]

Does anyone know if this is an ongoing hot topic throughout TV, or mainly here on TOTV?

I'm curious to know how widespread the topic/discussion is. Thanks.

[SALYBOW]

We oftentime rise to a topic here in a bit of a rabid manner. We are then rewarding people for inappropriate behavior. Possibly we should incorporate the oft used teacher strategy of "planned ignoring." That behavior which doesn't evoke a reaction is often not repeated. Works well with adolescent behavior, I can vouch for that.
Since we have opened up this can of worms, might I ask a few questions?
1. Why do we need to know this? If, in fact, we were going to be on the jury which tries him we would have the facts spelled out for us in a Montana court. But chances are slim to none that we will called to jury duty in Montana, I don't see the need for this information..

2. Shadow, could you share with us where you live? Is it in TV or not?

3. Does anyone know the definition and the consequences of slander, lible and defamation of character?

4. Most importantly, does a dead moose actually feel the chainsaw?

Just MHO. TY

[Larry Wilson]

Breaking the law in this case is a sign of a man's character. Yes, dead animals feel pain as they are dying. Yes, this is talked about in sport groups, golf groups, and social groups in the Villages. No, hunters do not cut off legs and leave them in the field. No hunter with a conscience wastes food, especially from a state which has a high level of poverty.

[Taj44]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac

http://www.laureloutlook.com/article...ts/12poach.txt

Notice the lack of yellow journalism you see in the Orlando Sentinel story as described by the Shadow anyway.

The article from MT describes one of the allegations against James Rainey as:

"€ Two misdemeanor charges of waste of game in Big Horn County in September 2009. Rainey is accused of killing two elk, then removing only the head from one elk and allowing the meat from both carcasses to rot."

It does not go into the use of a chainsaw. This would seem to be something a prosecutor would want to point out when telling a jury about the case he or she would prove. It plays on your emotion. I cannot think of many other ways of removing an elk's head from its body except those that are just as graphic in their description.

I don't know that I'd call it yellow journalism - that tends to be sensationalist headlines, which is certainly the case here, but yellow journalism also implies lack of factual basis, poor research, faked interviews, unnamed sources, etc. In this case the headlines, although sensationalist, appear to be true. They are based on affadavits that are a matter of public record.

Unfortunately, everything lately from the media seems to be sensationalist - that's how they grab everyone's attention. Look at this recent headline in the national news: "Condit's DNA found on Levy's Underwear", like we needed to hear that. The Orlando Sentinel isn't doing anything different than any other media source is doing, its trying to sell papers and stay afloat financially. I don't care for the sensationalism, but I do think they are presenting the facts in the matter.

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson

Breaking the law in this case is a sign of a man's character. Yes, dead animals feel pain as they are dying. Yes, this is talked about in sport groups, golf groups, and social groups in the Villages. No, hunters do not cut off legs and leave them in the field. No hunter with a conscience wastes food, especially from a state which has a high level of poverty.

I never heard of a dead animal feeling pain. I recently moved to Pennecamp and have talked to many new neighbors. You would be surprised at how many people never heard of Gary Morse or TOTV.

[Larry Wilson]

Two points. I said animals feel pain as they are dying. They lose control of their bowels and often let out a death cry. Its not like television. I have seen many animals shot and it is sickening. Plus they said some of these animals were wounded which is even worst but happens in hunting.
Second - I don't think many villagers heard this story from TOTV but rather from newspapers and TV.

[redwitch]

Sorry, Shadow, I can't say thanks for the link. I don't think it has any relevance. It is nothing really new. We already knew Rainey left the carcass and kept the trophy head. The fact he cut off the legs is disgusting, cruel, ugly, but irrelevant.

I sincerely hope that Morse, Rainey, et al., get whatever is deserved. I know it is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but everything I've read screams guilty. If I were on a jury in Montana for this case, I would have to be excused because I do believe all of the events occurred and I know them to be illegal.

As to Gracie, she really is as sweet as she sounds. She can (rarely) get cranky and even occasionally snaps, but on the whole she tries very hard to see the best in people. Heck, she even talks to me and gives me much needed hugs even though she knows I'm no fan of the Morses (TV, yes; the Morse family, no).

As to discussions in TV about this incident, it is definitely talked about. I play Mah-Jongg with a group of ladies whose knowledge of the internet is somewhere between slim and none. None of them have ever gone near TOTV that I know of. They all knew about the poaching. Three of them were upset about it; two really didn't see that it mattered in the grand scheme of TV; two didn't believe it all. So, if these seven women knew about this incident, I'm guessing it is pretty much common knowledge in TV.

[Ajack]

Originally Posted by Larry Wilson

Two points. I said animals feel pain as they are dying. They lose control of their bowels and often let out a death cry. Its not like television. I have seen many animals shot and it is sickening. Plus they said some of these animals were wounded which is even worst but happens in hunting.
Second - I don't think many villagers heard this story from TOTV but rather from newspapers and TV.

I only quoted what you said. Also many of my new neighbors never heard of Gary Morse or the so-called incident.That must tell you something.

[Ajack]

I have one question for all that says that "character matters" If it was discovered that the Morses were mass murderers, would you sell your house here in The Villages? Would it make this place any worse? What really is accomplished here by all this gossiping?

And for the people who love it here but "hate" Mr. Morse: Do you really know the man? If you hate him so much, then show some "character" and leave.