[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by I'm Popeye!

Now you're changing your words around, you did NOT say anything like that in your post. Just Saying...

That is the crazy thing about texting, social media, and things like this forum. Hard to detect what someone is feeling. But, that is what I was meant when I typed those words. I wouldn't change my opinion based on what you typed afterwards. Your point was valid. Because of what you typed, I am going to put up a stronger guard. People with mental problems can be extremely dangerous to others and thank you for reminding me. It's just not what I meant.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

First of all - Mark doesn't have a "severe" medical or mental condition. I don't know if he's autistic or not, I just know he's on the spectrum somewhere, and he's high functioning.

Second - his shrieks are not random. He does it to the beat of the music at certain intervals, and only during certain songs, in certain spots of the songs. Usually it's not a shriek, it's a count: "THREE TWO ONE!".

Third - He is intelligent, able to hold his own in a conversation, waxes poetic on occasion, is a spiritual person, gentle and seems to be incapable of expressing anger toward anyone. I haven't tested that but I've watched a few people play the passive-aggressive "Oh look Marge, it's THAT GUY AGAIN" game in close proximity to him and he just accepts it with a gracious smile. There are some people here who would take those quips as challenges and become confrontational about it but he never takes the bait, so far as I've experienced.

Fourth - he's not inconspicuous, I don't know why BrianL99 came up with that claim that anyone here was saying he is inconspicuous. He's clearly conspicuous - he's a tall pale bald white guy wearing a long-sleeved Henley shirt, who smells like a Deadhead, sweating like a dyslexic on Countdown, wielding a conductor's baton and poking it up into the sky or spinning and dancing around the dance area.

He's only not innocuous to people who are easily offended by anyone who isn't perfect.

Years ago, I was told he had autism by a woman serving drinks in one of the huts. She gave me quite a long story about how long she has known him and had witnessed outbursts and unusual repetitive behavior. (usually associated with unexpected loud noises and music) Other than noise, she said he is harmless. If that information is incorrect, I stand corrected. Did not seem like the woman was someone who liked to gossip. Came off as someone who was concerned for another.

Autistic people are extremely intelligent and able to function. They repeat a behavior over and over because they cannot get it out of their head. You said it yourself in your post. People try to get him to stop but he just smiles at them. That is the nature of the disease. He is unable to control his behavior impulse. And, can not recognize that his behavior is odd or extreme. Music and/or noise sets his brain off. A normal person would stop the behavior when hundreds of people have asked him to do so.

This was the point of my post. Don't just discard someone and make requests to have them banned from the square without knowing about them first. I used the words severe mental problems because that is how it was relayed to me. She used the words severe autism.

[Davonu]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

…He's only not innocuous to people who are easily offended by anyone who isn't perfect.

Ridiculous.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

Years ago, I was told he had autism by a woman serving drinks in one of the huts. She gave me quite a long story about how long she has known him and had witnessed outbursts and unusual repetitive behavior. (usually associated with unexpected loud noises and music) Other than noise, she said he is harmless. If that information is incorrect, I stand corrected. Did not seem like the woman was someone who liked to gossip. Came off as someone who was concerned for another.

Autistic people are extremely intelligent and able to function. They repeat a behavior over and over because they cannot get it out of their head. You said it yourself in your post. People try to get him to stop but he just smiles at them. That is the nature of the disease. He is unable to control his behavior impulse. And, can not recognize that his behavior is odd or extreme. Music and/or noise sets his brain off. A normal person would stop the behavior when hundreds of people have asked him to do so.

This was the point of my post. Don't just discard someone and make requests to have them banned from the square without knowing about them first. I used the words severe mental problems because that is how it was relayed to me. She used the words severe autism.

No they're not trying to "get him to stop." They're shaming him and making nasty remarks, INSTEAD of trying to get him to stop. He CAN control himself. This is his method of expression. He can step away from it, or sit down, or not show up, or listen to the music in his own house instead. But this is his expression of joy. Just like my expression is to jump out of my seat and dance, without making noise, his is to dance and make noise. He does not have severe autism. Severe autism would be an inability to connect with other people at all, make eye contact, or have physical touch between themselves and other people, and is usually accompanied by being non-verbal, and the LOUD noise and crowds of the squares would be a total overload for someone who is severely autistic. They wouldn't be capable of existing in such an environment. Mark seeks it out and comes here on his own, on purpose, because he enjoys the music, and the crowds, and connecting with other people.

I think maybe you've never actually had a conversation with Mark. I really hope you are able to catch him walking to Publix some day, and invite him for a short chitchat at the table outside, and get to know him. He'll lighten your day. He is a very precious soul.

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

No they're not trying to "get him to stop." They're shaming him and making nasty remarks, INSTEAD of trying to get him to stop. He CAN control himself. This is his method of expression. He can step away from it, or sit down, or not show up, or listen to the music in his own house instead. But this is his expression of joy. Just like my expression is to jump out of my seat and dance, without making noise, his is to dance and make noise. He does not have severe autism. Severe autism would be an inability to connect with other people at all, make eye contact, or have physical touch between themselves and other people, and is usually accompanied by being non-verbal, and the LOUD noise and crowds of the squares would be a total overload for someone who is severely autistic. They wouldn't be capable of existing in such an environment. Mark seeks it out and comes here on his own, on purpose, because he enjoys the music, and the crowds, and connecting with other people.

I think maybe you've never actually had a conversation with Mark. I really hope you are able to catch him walking to Publix some day, and invite him for a short chitchat at the table outside, and get to know him. He'll lighten your day. He is a very precious soul.

Like I said, I stand corrected if what I was told was wrong. I have had several conversations with him and talked about it in on this thread. To repeat, I said he was a nice and likeable guy if you take the time to talk to him. I am not condemning him. I am condemning those who want him banned from the square.

But, at the same time I understand what others have responded. One person stated, if someone hits you with a bat, you take take the bat away. So what is the solution? I have no idea. One thing is for certain, we all know he is not going to voluntarily stop using the baton... no matter how many people he nearly strikes or the inconvenience of others having to manuever away.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

Like I said, I stand corrected if what I was told was wrong. I have had several conversations with him and talked about it in on this thread. To repeat, I said he was a nice and likeable guy if you take the time to talk to him. I am not condemning him. I am condemning those who want him banned from the square. I happen to think such a request is absurd. Who is going to be the next person to be banned?

How many like him would you accept, 2, 10, 100? Then what? Looks to me from the video he frightened at least one child who was maybe 10 years old. The way he looks and acts would certainly frighten me if I was a nearby child.

The big question is where do his rights to behave disruptively, infringing the rights of literally everyone else to enjoy the music at the squares, end?

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

How many like him would you accept, 2, 10, 100? Then what? Looks to me from the video he frightened at least one child who was maybe 10 years old. The way he looks and acts would certainly frighten me if I was a nearby child.

The big question is where do his rights to behave disruptively, infringing the rights of literally everyone else to enjoy the music at the squares, end?

I guess I am more of a numbers person than you. We live in the worlds largest 55+ community. If you get rid of him, another will take his place. I have been here for 20+ years, believe me, there have been many. From what I have experienced , many more will come.

I no longer am surprised, annoyed, or want to do anything harsh like getting rid of them. Everyone in this community ages and some will get mental disorders. It is just something I believe you have to deal with if you continue to live in this community. You can get rid of 100 and 100 will soon follow. None of us are going to escape aging and/or disease.

Beware. Next thing I am going to say is harsh. If you are concerned that a 10 yr old becomes frightened in a square with aging adults, maybe you should have a conversation with his/her parents. I have seen heart attacks, people collapsing, uncontrollable drunks, loss of bodily fluids, sex acts, and one time I witnessed a woman getting her head severed off. (A man was driving a golf cart, had a medical emergency, lost control of the vehicle, and drove straight into the crowd). A person should be aware of what can and does happen in a 55+ community. Maybe, a person should think twice before bringing a ten year old into this kind of environment. I know it is harsh, but it is the reality. Again, I ask. Who will you ban next? Mark is small peanuts compared to some of the stuff I've seen.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

I guess I am more of a numbers person than you. We live in the worlds largest 55+ community. If you get rid of him, another will take his place. I have been here for 20+ years, believe me, there have been many. From what I have experienced , many more will come.

I no longer am surprised, annoyed, or want to do anything harsh like getting rid of them. Everyone in this community ages and some will get mental disorders. It is just something I believe you have to deal with if you continue to live in this community. You can get rid of 100 and 100 will soon follow. None of us are going to escape aging and/or disease.

OK. So what if he was not a resident of The Villages? What if he was 35 years old? What if he was a teenager? Would you apply the same analysis and come to the same conclusion?

[margaretmattson]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

OK. So what if he was not a resident of The Villages? What if he was 35 years old? What if he was a teenager? Would you apply the same analysis and come to the same conclusion?

I just added more information to my last post. Please refer to that.

[fdpaq0580]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

Years ago, I was told he had autism by a woman serving drinks in one of the huts. She gave me quite a long story about how long she has known him and had witnessed outbursts and unusual repetitive behavior. (usually associated with unexpected loud noises and music) Other than noise, she said he is harmless. If that information is incorrect, I stand corrected. Did not seem like the woman was someone who liked to gossip. Came off as someone who was concerned for another.

Autistic people are extremely intelligent and able to function. They repeat a behavior over and over because they cannot get it out of their head. You said it yourself in your post. People try to get him to stop but he just smiles at them. That is the nature of the disease. He is unable to control his behavior impulse. And, can not recognize that his behavior is odd or extreme. Music and/or noise sets his brain off. A normal person would stop the behavior when hundreds of people have asked him to do so.

This was the point of my post. Don't just discard someone and make requests to have them banned from the square without knowing about them first. I used the words severe mental problems because that is how it was relayed to me. She used the words severe autism.

Ever have a song stuck in your head that just won't go away? Or a name or thought that keeps taunting you? Imagine if those mental loops were also physical, uncontrollable. Sadly, that's kind of how it is for some otherwise really nice folks.

[Chi-Town]

Ever since seeing It's A Small World at the New York World's Fair in 1964.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by margaretmattson

Like I said, I stand corrected if what I was told was wrong. I have had several conversations with him and talked about it in on this thread. To repeat, I said he was a nice and likeable guy if you take the time to talk to him. I am not condemning him. I am condemning those who want him banned from the square.

But, at the same time I understand what others have responded. One person stated, if someone hits you with a bat, you take take the bat away. So what is the solution? I have no idea. One thing is for certain, we all know he is not going to voluntarily stop using the baton... no matter how many people he nearly strikes or the inconvenience of others having to manuever away.

He's not hitting anyone with a bat. He's not doing anything TO anyone. There is no "other side" here. There is no justifying, or excusing, or explaining. Mark comes to the square regularly, he's been coming since before most of the people complaining. He's known, he's not a troublemaker, he doesn't get drunk (he doesn't drink alcohol), he doesn't confront anyone. He makes rhythmic noise to certain beats of certain songs, and dances. That's it. That's all he's doing. Anyone who has a problem with noise at an electronically-amplified musical performance should re-visit their own defects.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by fdpaq0580

Ever have a song stuck in your head that just won't go away? Or a name or thought that keeps taunting you? Imagine if those mental loops were also physical, uncontrollable. Sadly, that's kind of how it is for some otherwise really nice folks.

That has nothing to do with this thread or its topic. Mark CAN control his spinning. He likes spinning, it feels good. I asked him about it when I gave him a ride one night when I saw him a couple of blocks away from the square, we were both headed in that direction. He spins because he LIKES it, not because he's compelled to do it.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

How many like him would you accept, 2, 10, 100? Then what? Looks to me from the video he frightened at least one child who was maybe 10 years old. The way he looks and acts would certainly frighten me if I was a nearby child.

The big question is where do his rights to behave disruptively, infringing the rights of literally everyone else to enjoy the music at the squares, end?

The guy with the half-inch-thick spongey green crust on his toes scares me too. He doesn't even try to cover that nasty with a sock. Should we make all people with toenail fungus and toejam stay out of the squares?

[Davonu]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

The guy with the half-inch-thick spongey green crust on his toes scares me too. He doesn't even try to cover that nasty with a sock. Should we make all people with toenail fungus and toejam stay out of the squares?

You can avoid the toenail fungus, not the sudden unexpected screaming.