[rrtjp]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

That was a terrible situation. But, imagine if it was a kidnapping and the LEO had done nothing. In todays society it is often more dangerous to do nothing that to take unnecessary action.

Maybe the caregiver should have had a positive state issued ID stating they were a license caregiver and a photo ID indicating who they were taking care of.

Well said. Maybe they were not a licensed caregiver. I would have got the license plate and called the police.

[MartinSE]

I apology to those that feel I post too often. This thread hit a nerve with me.

My wife and I went though the decision to home care or place her mother in memory care facility just a couple years ago. It was a very hard and traumatic decision. In the end, each of us has to make the decision we feel is right for us and our loved one.

Sharons mother got to the point she would wander off, leave the stove burning, and thought people were breaking in while she slept and swapping her eggs out of her refrigerator. Several times someone found her wandering and brought her home to her apartment. Thankfully there were caring neighbors.

Something had to happen. At the time we were "poor" and living on SS only, and could not provide room or the care she needed.

We struggled with how to handle it, Sharon went out to Seattle (the airline donated a flight ticket for her) to stay with her for a while and after a few months it was clear it was more than Sharon could do. So, I flew out and we visited many facilities until we found one that was excellent.

She lived the rest of her life in comfort with good care providers. They provided transport and supervision to take her on "shopping" trips, trips to entertainment, etc. They made sure she got her medications, and all her needs were take care of. We do believe she was happier there than on her own or with us.

This is a difficult position to find one self in, but it happens. I will never criticize anyone for their decision on how to care for a loved one with any form of dementia. All we can do is do our best.

But, to suggest that a retired LEO was out of line for stepping in and making sure the person screaming was safe is about as far wrong as you can get in my not so humble opinion. It was EXACTLY the right thing to do. It is what we would have wanted for Sharon's mother if it had happened.

My suggestion was simply to provide certified identification to make it easy and fast for an LEO (or anyone) to KNOW what is going on.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

Exactly, not getting involved or thinking they PROBABLY have dementia will just get people killed.

Context is important as is common sense. This was at a very large store and the person with dementia had been doing well up to a point where something set her off.

The caretaker took her charge out of the store quickly and went to her car. The RETIRED LEO-- or someone who claimed that-- followed them out to the car and demanded IDs.

That is NONE of this person's business. Alzheimer's patients yelling is a common occurrence. You take them out of the setting which our family's caretaker did. These caretakers are often in uniforms of a sort. Some do have name tags on some do not. Some wear clothing with their company's name on. Some do not.

An 80-90 woman with what to a reasonable person looks like a health care worker hardly never would be being kidnapped in that setting. Probably never anyway.

Use common sense. Most of the people in the large store did that. The retired LEO made things worse, not better. And I do not remember hearing him showing any ID whatsoever. He did call the police but the company we have called them and turned them away as far as I know. The company also called me and said they were working on getting my family member home but they did have to deal with the police.

My family member was very upset by the whole thing. That is the person with Alzheimer's. The man claiming to be a retired LEO made that day and this weekend a lot harder because of his sense of self-importance. And again I do not remember him showing any ID. He just claimed to be a retired LEO.

And some kid carrying a gun into a school is a very different matter. Some other poster tried to compare these.

A retired LEO should stop any one like that.

I have met retired cops -- some homicide ones-- here in the Villages and I doubt if they would have handled it like this "retired LEO" did. At least, they would have shown some situational awareness.

My family member with Alzheimer's caregiver does wear something that look like scrubs. She does look like many of the other caregivers I see coming in-and-out of various houses with people who need some kind of health care here in the Villages.

[MartinSE]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Context is important as is common sense. This was at a very large store and the person with dementia had been doing well up to a point where something set her off.

The caretaker took her charge out of the store quickly and went to her car. The RETIRED LEO-- or someone who claimed that-- followed them out to the car and demanded IDs.

That is NONE of this person's business. Alzheimer's patients yelling is a common occurrence. You take them out of the setting which our family's caretaker did. These caretakers are often in uniforms of a sort. Some do have name tags on some do not. Some wear clothing with their company's name on. Some do not.

An 80-90 woman with what to a reasonable person looks like a health care worker hardly never would be being kidnapped in that setting. Probably never anyway.

Use common sense. Most of the people in the large store did that. The retired LEO made things worse, not better. And I do not remember hearing him showing any ID whatsoever. He did call the police but the company we have called them and turned them away as far as I know. The company also called me and said they were working on getting my family member home but they did have to deal with the police.

My family member was very upset by the whole thing. That is the person with Alzheimer's. The man claiming to be a retired LEO made that day and this weekend a lot harder because of his sense of self-importance. And again I do not remember him showing any ID. He just claimed to be a retired LEO.

If ONLY everyone had common sense like you. Too bad we live in the real world. I am sorry for your family members issues. But, imagine how your post would have read if your family member had been kidnapped while people stood by and watched....

[ThirdOfFive]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

I apology to those that feel I post too often. This thread hit a nerve with me.

My wife and I went though the decision to home care or place her mother in memory care facility just a couple years ago. It was a very hard and traumatic decision. In the end, each of us has to make the decision we feel is right for us and our loved one.

Sharons mother got to the point she would wander off, leave the stove burning, and thought people were breaking in while she slept and swapping her eggs out of her refrigerator. Several times someone found her wandering and brought her home to her apartment. Thankfully there were caring neighbors.

Something had to happen. At the time we were "poor" and living on SS only, and could not provide room or the care she needed.

We struggled with how to handle it, Sharon went out to Seattle (the airline donated a flight ticket for her) to stay with her for a while and after a few months it was clear it was more than Sharon could do. So, I flew out and we visited many facilities until we found one that was excellent.

She lived the rest of her life in comfort with good care providers. They provided transport and supervision to take her on "shopping" trips, trips to entertainment, etc. They made sure she got her medications, and all her needs were take care of. We do believe she was happier there than on her own or with us.

This is a difficult position to find one self in, but it happens. I will never criticize anyone for their decision on how to care for a loved one with any form of dementia. All we can do is do our best.

But, to suggest that a retired LEO was out of line for stepping in and making sure the person screaming was safe is about as far wrong as you can get in my not so humble opinion. It was EXACTLY the right thing to do. It is what we would have wanted for Sharon's mother if it had happened.

My suggestion was simply to provide certified identification to make it easy and fast for an LEO (or anyone) to KNOW what is going on.

Excellent post, and points made. My compliments.

That is the heart of the matter. Every decision made in these kinds of situations is individual, and we can only do our best.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by MartinSE

If ONLY everyone had common sense like you. Too bad we live in the real world. I am sorry for your family members issues. But, imagine how your post would have read if your family member had been kidnapped while people stood by and watched....

My 87 year old family member being kidnapped in a Walmart in the Villages is extremely unlikely. Other Alzheimer's patients yelling "Help! Help!" or "I am being kidnapped" in Villages stores is very likely.

And in the real world, when was a Villager with Alzheimer's ever kidnapped by a stranger or even a caretaker? My guess is NEVER.

And how did the Alzheimer's patient get to Walmart in the first place? Someone had to have driven her there. Someone like a caregiver. Someone trying to do her job.

[Kenswing]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

My 87 year old family member being kidnapped in a Walmart in the Villages is extremely unlikely. Other Alzheimer's patients yelling "Help! Help!" or "I am being kidnapped" in Villages stores is very likely.

And in the real world, when was a Villager with Alzheimer's ever kidnapped by a stranger or even a caretaker? My guess is NEVER.

And how did the Alzheimer's patient get to Walmart in the first place? Someone had to have driven her there. Someone like a caregiver. Someone trying to do her job.

I'm sorry, Tal. If someone is yelling that they are being kidnapped I'm going to call 911 and follow that person until either the police show up or it's determined that they are safe. In this world you just can't take the chance that there is something else going on. You are very passionate about this issue, but most of us have little or no experience in dealing with such variables as dementia patients in public. I'll always error on the side of caution.

[Kgcetm]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

USUALLY if someone is screaming a problems exists. That it is a demented individual is rarely the case, even here. Personally, I would automatically react as if something bad was happening rather some demented person out and about was losing it. My response would be what numbskull let them out in the first place knowing this could happen and cause a disturbance or worse?

They belong in assisted living facilities and should not be out on the streets creating disturbances.

Alzheimer's patients do not necessarily "belong" in assisted living facilities. They do, however, require love, care, touch and time. I hope you never have to watch as the disease gradually takes away 80 years of memories in a short 10 final years.

[Taltarzac725]

Originally Posted by Kgcetm

Alzheimer's patients do not necessarily "belong" in assisted living facilities. They do, however, require love, care, touch and time. I hope you never have to watch as the disease gradually takes away 80 years of memories in a short 10 final years.

It is very hard to watch. And Alzheimer's patients do deserve trips out like to parks, stores, restaurants, etc.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Kgcetm

Alzheimer's patients do not necessarily "belong" in assisted living facilities. They do, however, require love, care, touch and time. I hope you never have to watch as the disease gradually takes away 80 years of memories in a short 10 final years.

I agree with you and have unfortunately observed the disease progress in people I have known several times.

Again, I was referring ONLY to those patients prone to create serious disturbances in public by screaming for help, they are being kidnapped or such to the point where strangers might react strongly.

[Villagesgal]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

Someone close to me was out and about with her caregiver and started yelling she was being kidnapped. She was not but some busybody retired LEO decided to follow them out to the caregiver's car and then demanded ID and the phone of the patient from the caregiver. The caregiver called her company and the company made other calls. Lots of headaches because of a overzealous retired LEO.

Once they were out of the store it should not have been anyone's business.

People do get kidnapped but use some common sense and do not jump to conclusions especially if there is a person with dementia involved. Pay attention to details in other words.

Someone yelling they are being kidnapped is everyone's business. You were a bit harsh saying the individual was overzealous in trying to make sure all was OK. If it were you and the kidnapper said, "oh, she has dementia, pay her no mind," and allowed you to be kidnapped, you'd be screaming that the guy could have helped and didn't. Be glad someone was concerned about the lady. My husband suffered from Parkinsons dementia before he died and sometimes said odd things in public including that he didn't know who I was or why I was with him. I was always appreciative that people were concerned enough to want to help him, even if it was awkward for me. Be thankful there are people out there who care enough about total strangers to get involved in trying to help them. You may need one yourself some day.

[Taltarzac725]

https://thedawnmethod.com/dementia-a...grocery-store/

This is a very useful link.

[Taltarzac725]

An Alzheimer's patient yelling is her caretaker's business. And a woman or man in a kind of or actual uniform assisting her should suggest to people that is what is going on.

Originally Posted by Villagesgal

Someone yelling they are being kidnapped is everyone's business. You were a bit harsh saying the individual was overzealous in trying to make sure all was OK. If it were you and the kidnapper said, "oh, she has dementia, pay her no mind," and allowed you to be kidnapped, you'd be screaming that the guy could have helped and didn't. Be glad someone was concerned about the lady. My husband suffered from Parkinsons dementia before he died and sometimes said odd things in public including that he didn't know who I was or why I was with him. I was always appreciative that people were concerned enough to want to help him, even if it was awkward for me. Be thankful there are people out there who care enough about total strangers to get involved in trying to help them. You may need one yourself some day.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725

An Alzheimer's patient yelling is her caretaker's business. And a woman or man in a kind of or actual uniform assisting her should suggest to people that is what is going on.

Criminals even wear fake police uniforms. A kidnapper might be dressed as an attendant. You just never know these days.

What about patients who scream profanities or behave unexpectedly violent at times, such as striking strangers with their fists. Should they be taken out in public?

[Holpat39]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

USUALLY if someone is screaming a problems exists. That it is a demented individual is rarely the case, even here. Personally, I would automatically react as if something bad was happening rather some demented person out and about was losing it. My response would be what numbskull let them out in the first place knowing this could happen and cause a disturbance or worse?

They belong in assisted living facilities and should not be out on the streets creating disturbances.

Not all dementia patients should be locked up in a facility and why shouldn't they be allowed to be out with a caregiver. Your post "what numbskull let them out in the first place" makes it sound like taking out the dog. Some of the loud mouth drunks in town square shouldn't be out in the streets since they create a disturbance. If you know a dementia person in a nursing home you would not want them to be there since so many facilities are short handed and the person will not get the care they need. I speak from experience dealing with a Parkinson patient. One week in a nursing home and I brought him back home. Minimal care where he was placed..