[BJ Zinn]

Went to the program, was VERY disappointed. I thought it'd provide historical FACTS on the surrender of Gen. Robert E. Lee of the Northern Virginia Army only. Saying the war was over. In fact their were 5 armies of the Confederate. The last General to surrender was Brig. Gen. Stand Watie on June 23, 1865 and that was the Confederate Indians. The last naval vessel was the CSS Shenandoah surrendered by Captain Waddell to Captain Paynter of HMS Donegal on November 6, 1865 (7 months after Lee) in Liverpool, England. The Confederate flag was lowered again for the very last time, in front of the crew and a Royal Navy detachment who boarded the vessel.

Should have known off the bat it was according to the 'Yankee' version of the war just by using the name - Civil War.

The Conflict (1861-1865) between the Northern States (The Union) and the Southern States which seceded from the Union to form the Confederate States has been given many names.

The official Union designation was "The War of the Rebellion." Other names have been "The War of Secession" and "The War for Southern Independence." In the South, the conflict is called "The War Between the States."

The Congress of the United States used the term, "War Between the States" in two measures enacted into law; one measure became Public Law 834 in 1950, and a Resolution, H.580 was adopted by the House in 1944. The term "War Between the States" has been used in various reports on bills during the 70th, 71st, 72nd, 74th, 80th and 81st Congresses.

The name "Civil War" has also been widely accepted, no doubt because it is short. Actually the term "Civil War" is misleading and inexact. The war was not a class struggle, but a sectional combat, having its roots in such complex political, economic, social and psychological elements that it is difficult for historians to agree on all its basic causes.

The fact that for four years the Confederacy maintained an entirely separate government (with its own currency, commerce, army and navy) established the Confederate States of America as a separate nation.

This nation, the Confederate States of America, levied and collected revenue, enlisted its armies and issued cotton bonds which were accepted in foreign commercial marts.

Its navy, though small, fought brilliantly, and introduced with the Virginia Merrimac, a new type of warship, the ironclad.

The Confederate Flag, "The Stars and Bars" was recognized all over the world as belonging to a nation other than the United States of America. The "War Between the States" does not imply a war between individual states. The noun, "States," is used in its collective sense. the official titles of the contending parties during the conflict were the "United States" and the "Confederate States."

Therefore, since the war was between two groups of states, the United States and the Confederate States -- two separate nations -- the most exact name for that great conflict of the 1860's is "War Between the States."

[SouthOfTheBorder]

Sounds like you should have been part of the presentation.

Maybe next time.

Don

[2BNTV]

Very informative.

I may be wrong but "Team Of Rivals" by Doris Kearns Goodwin seemed to indicate this conflict started over "states rights", vs "federal rights" and then became an issue over slavery.

The southern states felt the federal government didn't have the right to tell them what to do, within their state boundaries. Should states have the right to keep slaves especially in new states that were being formed or have to set them free. This situation had been brewing for a long time, before the conflict, reared it's ugly head.

Whatever it is called or should be called, does not eliminate the fact, it was the most deadly war, as Americans were killing other Americans. IMHO

I agree this will still be studied, for many years to come.

[BJ Zinn]

Camp Douglas Prison Camp (The North�s Andersonville) By: Sue Eckhoff Grundy County Heritage Museum
April 24, 2010: Northern-Sun
Most people associate the name Andersonville with being the most horrible of all Civil War prison camps. Actually, it was just the worst in a whole line of bad � north and south alike. As a rule, prisons were more lethal than the shells of war. The North�s equivalent to Andersonville was Camp Douglas Prison, also referred to as �80 Acres of Hell�. It was located near the shores of Lake Michigan in Chicago, and was known as the northern prison camp with the highest mortality rate of all the Union Civil War Prisons, an estimated 6,000 Confederate prisoners died there from disease, starvation, and the bitter cold winters. (An additional 1,500 were reported as �unaccounted� for). The first prisoners arrived at Camp Douglas in February 1862. Conditions were horrible, 1 in 5 prisoners died. Punishment by guards was unusually harsh and cruel, and Confederate soldiers starved to death as food rations were withheld, prisoners were deprived of blankets, and lived in tents, where many froze to death in the severe weather. Prisoners were deprived of clothing to discourage escapes.

Many wore sacks with head and arm holes cut out. Few had underwear. The weakest froze to death. The Chicago winter of 1864 was devastating. 1,091 lives were lost in four months, the heaviest loss of life in the camps history and equaled the deaths at the highest rate of Andersonville. Yet, it is still the name of Andersonville that burns in history, while the north had its own counterpart of shame. Camp Douglas was the prison camp story that was swept under the rug apparently. A monument erected by Southern Veterans is all that remains of Camp Douglas. The monument is located at Oak Woods Cemetery, surrounded by an untold number of confederate soldier�s graves. The monument to the dead is known as Confederate Mound, and its inscription reads �Erected to the memory of 6,000 southern soldiers here buried who died in Camp Douglas Prison, 1862-5�. There are bronze tablets on the monument that list some of the dead Confederate soldiers confirmed buried there, but how many more soldiers in the Camp Douglas Confederate Mound will always be unknown. Records of the dead at Camp Douglas appear to have been lost or miskept. For a period of time the camp contracted with an unscrupulous undertaker who sold some of the bodies of Confederate prisoners to medical schools. Some were dumped into Lake Michigan, only to wash up later on its shores. Nobody was ever held accountable for the conditions and actions at Camp Douglas, and the only Union general to gain that rank without seeing combat was an overseer of Camp Douglas.

The Union Civil War prison at Elmira, New York was another hell on earth. It was said �if there was ever a hell on Earth, Elmira Prison was that hell, but it was not a hot one, for the thermometer was often 40 degrees below zero�. Elmira prison was located on a 30 acre site along the banks of the Chemung River. There was a one acre lagoon of water called Foster�s Pond, which was backwash from the river, and served as a latrine and garbage dump. The prison was conceived on May 15, 1864, when it was determined that the former recruiting barracks could be used to house a large number of rebels recently captured. In converting to a prison they were told to make the area being enclosed by a fence big enough to accommodate 10,000 prisoners. Inside the fenced in area stood 35 2-story barracks, 100� x 20�. Two rows of crude bunks were along the walls. Behind the rows of barracks was a group of buildings converted into a dispensary and guard rooms. The first group of prisoners quickly crowded the barracks, and the subsequent arrivals lived in �A� tents scattered around the prison area. At the time of their arrival most prisoners were unaware of the deadly factor that the prison was located in New York State where for at least four months of the year the weather was bitterly cold. The prisoners were insufficiently clothed, nor did they have blankets. Medical supplies were deficient. In August of 1864 there were 9,170 prisoners housed in Elmira. Small pox broke out and as much as possible, vaccinations were performed. Late in July, the prisoners underwent a unique indignity.

A group of townspeople erected two observation platforms immediately outside the prison walls. For the sum of 15 cents, spectators could observe the prisoners as they endured life inside the compound. Winter struck early Prisoners lacking blankets and clad in rags collapsed from exposure. By early December 1,600 men with no blankets, stood ankle deep in snow to answer morning roll call. The second week of December the Federal government issued clothing for 2,000 men out of 8,400. Small pox was ever present. One prisoners wrote �there is not a day that at least twenty men are taken out dead�. Washington either ignored or denied repeated requisitions for badly needed medicines and straw for the sick to lay on. On the night of March 16, 1865, hard rains caused the river to overrun its banks. Federals and confederates alike hastily assembled crude rafts to evacuate prisoners. Others crowded the upper stories of the barracks as the water rose halfway up the first level. A month later General Lee surrendered, and the paroling of prisoners began in May. The last prisoner did not leave the hospital until September 27, 1865.

[BJ Zinn]

Camp Douglas Prison Camp (The North�s Andersonville) By: Sue Eckhoff Grundy County Heritage Museum
April 24, 2010: Northern-Sun
Most people associate the name Andersonville with being the most horrible of all Civil War prison camps. Actually, it was just the worst in a whole line of bad � north and south alike. As a rule, prisons were more lethal than the shells of war. The North�s equivalent to Andersonville was Camp Douglas Prison, also referred to as �80 Acres of Hell�. It was located near the shores of Lake Michigan in Chicago, and was known as the northern prison camp with the highest mortality rate of all the Union Civil War Prisons, an estimated 6,000 Confederate prisoners died there from disease, starvation, and the bitter cold winters. (An additional 1,500 were reported as �unaccounted� for). The first prisoners arrived at Camp Douglas in February 1862. Conditions were horrible, 1 in 5 prisoners died. Punishment by guards was unusually harsh and cruel, and Confederate soldiers starved to death as food rations were withheld, prisoners were deprived of blankets, and lived in tents, where many froze to death in the severe weather. Prisoners were deprived of clothing to discourage escapes.

Many wore sacks with head and arm holes cut out. Few had underwear. The weakest froze to death. The Chicago winter of 1864 was devastating. 1,091 lives were lost in four months, the heaviest loss of life in the camps history and equaled the deaths at the highest rate of Andersonville. Yet, it is still the name of Andersonville that burns in history, while the north had its own counterpart of shame. Camp Douglas was the prison camp story that was swept under the rug apparently. A monument erected by Southern Veterans is all that remains of Camp Douglas. The monument is located at Oak Woods Cemetery, surrounded by an untold number of confederate soldier�s graves. The monument to the dead is known as Confederate Mound, and its inscription reads �Erected to the memory of 6,000 southern soldiers here buried who died in Camp Douglas Prison, 1862-5�. There are bronze tablets on the monument that list some of the dead Confederate soldiers confirmed buried there, but how many more soldiers in the Camp Douglas Confederate Mound will always be unknown. Records of the dead at Camp Douglas appear to have been lost or miskept. For a period of time the camp contracted with an unscrupulous undertaker who sold some of the bodies of Confederate prisoners to medical schools. Some were dumped into Lake Michigan, only to wash up later on its shores. Nobody was ever held accountable for the conditions and actions at Camp Douglas, and the only Union general to gain that rank without seeing combat was an overseer of Camp Douglas.

The Union Civil War prison at Elmira, New York was another hell on earth. It was said �if there was ever a hell on Earth, Elmira Prison was that hell, but it was not a hot one, for the thermometer was often 40 degrees below zero�. Elmira prison was located on a 30 acre site along the banks of the Chemung River. There was a one acre lagoon of water called Foster�s Pond, which was backwash from the river, and served as a latrine and garbage dump. The prison was conceived on May 15, 1864, when it was determined that the former recruiting barracks could be used to house a large number of rebels recently captured. In converting to a prison they were told to make the area being enclosed by a fence big enough to accommodate 10,000 prisoners. Inside the fenced in area stood 35 2-story barracks, 100� x 20�. Two rows of crude bunks were along the walls. Behind the rows of barracks was a group of buildings converted into a dispensary and guard rooms. The first group of prisoners quickly crowded the barracks, and the subsequent arrivals lived in �A� tents scattered around the prison area. At the time of their arrival most prisoners were unaware of the deadly factor that the prison was located in New York State where for at least four months of the year the weather was bitterly cold. The prisoners were insufficiently clothed, nor did they have blankets. Medical supplies were deficient. In August of 1864 there were 9,170 prisoners housed in Elmira. Small pox broke out and as much as possible, vaccinations were performed. Late in July, the prisoners underwent a unique indignity.

A group of townspeople erected two observation platforms immediately outside the prison walls. For the sum of 15 cents, spectators could observe the prisoners as they endured life inside the compound. Winter struck early Prisoners lacking blankets and clad in rags collapsed from exposure. By early December 1,600 men with no blankets, stood ankle deep in snow to answer morning roll call. The second week of December the Federal government issued clothing for 2,000 men out of 8,400. Small pox was ever present. One prisoners wrote �there is not a day that at least twenty men are taken out dead�. Washington either ignored or denied repeated requisitions for badly needed medicines and straw for the sick to lay on. On the night of March 16, 1865, hard rains caused the river to overrun its banks. Federals and confederates alike hastily assembled crude rafts to evacuate prisoners. Others crowded the upper stories of the barracks as the water rose halfway up the first level. A month later General Lee surrendered, and the paroling of prisoners began in May. The last prisoner did not leave the hospital until September 27, 1865.

[redwitch]

Any time you'd like to give a presentation, please let me know. Would love to be there. Thanks for a very informative post!

[NotFromAroundHere]

Originally Posted by BJ Zinn

The fact that for four years the Confederacy maintained an entirely separate government (with its own currency, commerce, army and navy) established the Confederate States of America as a separate nation.

This nation, the Confederate States of America, levied and collected revenue, enlisted its armies and issued cotton bonds which were accepted in foreign commercial marts.

Its navy, though small, fought brilliantly, and introduced with the Virginia Merrimac, a new type of warship, the ironclad.

The Confederate Flag, "The Stars and Bars" was recognized all over the world as belonging to a nation other than the United States of America.

What foreign nations recognized the Confederacy? The ironclad was introduced in Europe before the Civil War.

[BJ Zinn]

Not officially support, but did business or supply soldiers with the Confederacy: Great Britain and the other industrial nations of Europe, Ireland, France, Spain, Mexico, South America, China

[Bogie Shooter]

What Civil War program?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

What Civil War program?

I don't know but I am totally confused as to why the OP is upset.

I think being from Ohio and having an ancestor who captured the last flag at Appomattox may not impress the OP who seems to be on the other side of "The Recent Unpleasantness".

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I don't know but I am totally confused as to why the OP is upset.

I think being from Ohio and having an ancestor who captured the last flag at Appomattox may not impress the OP who seems to be on the other side of "The Recent Unpleasantness".

There you go! Well done.

When we lived in Nashville I became the only Yankee on the board of Carnton Plantation in Franklin, TN. Carnton was at the center of the Battle of Franklin in terms of the medical care provided to the wounded from the adjacent battlefield. 5 generals from both sides died on the porch of Carnton after the battle. They still maintain a private military graveyard on the grounds of the plantation. Both sides have dead buried there.

My favorite story relates to the siege of Vicksburg Mississippi. The city fell on July 4th and therefore did not celebrate that national holiday until well into the 20th century. I believe it was well into the 1970's.