[Laker14]

It occurred to me that if I were considering buying a place in a retirement community in Florida, and golf was a major factor for me, the conditions of the courses in TV would send me away.

TheVillages.com website markets TV as a golfer's dream. In the 6 years I've been spending my winters here the conditions of the courses has steadily deteriorated, at least during the high season. The value of having so many courses, both championship and executive, diminishes when the greens look like sandboxes in a playground.

I didn't buy my home in TV thinking of it as an investment, nor was golf the primary factor, but I don't want to see any of the amenities be allowed to deteriorate for lack of proper maintenance. I don't want, in 10 years to see the rec centers, pools, tennis courts, pickleball courts, etc not being kept up nicely. Likewise for the plantings and general common landscaping.

I would include the proper conditioning of the golf courses in all of what keeps TV an attractive option for potential buyers.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It occurred to me that if I were considering buying a place in a retirement community in Florida, and golf was a major factor for me, the conditions of the courses in TV would send me away.

TheVillages.com website markets TV as a golfer's dream. In the 6 years I've been spending my winters here the conditions of the courses has steadily deteriorated, at least during the high season. The value of having so many courses, both championship and executive, diminishes when the greens look like sandboxes in a playground.

I didn't buy my home in TV thinking of it as an investment, nor was golf the primary factor, but I don't want to see any of the amenities be allowed to deteriorate for lack of proper maintenance. I don't want, in 10 years to see the rec centers, pools, tennis courts, pickleball courts, etc not being kept up nicely. Likewise for the plantings and general common landscaping.

I would include the proper conditioning of the golf courses in all of what keeps TV an attractive option for potential buyers.

With a positive 30 year track record, I don't think a year or 2 of adverse conditions is going to seriously impact marketability. Look at down south as an example. It took something like 5 years to build the bridge the Developer "promised" and they're still waiting for their 1st real Town Square and only have 1 Championship golf course.. Folks bought into the promises and still are.

You can be sure the Developer is attuned to social media and the marketplace in general. The Developer may be many things, but the family is not stupid and they're not going to allow their assets and investments to be devalued.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It occurred to me that if I were considering buying a place in a retirement community in Florida, and golf was a major factor for me, the conditions of the courses in TV would send me away.

TheVillages.com website markets TV as a golfer's dream. In the 6 years I've been spending my winters here the conditions of the courses has steadily deteriorated, at least during the high season. The value of having so many courses, both championship and executive, diminishes when the greens look like sandboxes in a playground.

I didn't buy my home in TV thinking of it as an investment, nor was golf the primary factor, but I don't want to see any of the amenities be allowed to deteriorate for lack of proper maintenance. I don't want, in 10 years to see the rec centers, pools, tennis courts, pickleball courts, etc not being kept up nicely. Likewise for the plantings and general common landscaping.

I would include the proper conditioning of the golf courses in all of what keeps TV an attractive option for potential buyers.

So if there around 700 holes available and let’s say 100 are below par? Wouldn’t that be well above anywhere else I world for what amenities you pay for. Millions spent on golf courses, probably by far the biggest expense which lots villager’s don’t even use. So IMO not financial problem it’s management problem which in most cases the BIG problem? Maybe somebody at top of food chain needs to be fired cause not only golf it’s bleeds to other activities. Money there management not IMO.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

With a positive 30 year track record, I don't think a year or 2 of adverse conditions is going to seriously impact marketability. Look at down south as an example. It took something like 5 years to build the bridge the Developer "promised" and they're still waiting for their 1st real Town Square and only have 1 Championship golf course.. Folks bought into the promises and still are.

You can be sure the Developer is attuned to social media and the marketplace in general. The Developer may be many things, but the family is not stupid and they're not going to allow their assets and investments to be devalued.

I should have been more clear about my concern. I agree with you in that the developer will do what needs to be done to keep selling new houses in new villages. What I meant to express was a question on how deteriorating conditions in the established areas, where most of the courses are, might negatively impact the values, say, north of 44, or between the 6s.

As ownership of the executive courses turns over from the developer to the districts, their maintenance becomes the property owners' responsibility. As the next decade goes by, and those of us in the older established villages age, and maybe age out of TV, we will be more and more in competition with the new developments. If our amenities look old and untended, be they rec centers, pools, golf courses, landscaping etc. we will lose that competition, and badly.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

So if there around 700 holes available and let’s say 100 are below par? Wouldn’t that be well above anywhere else I world for what amenities you pay for. Millions spent on golf courses, probably by far the biggest expense which lots villager’s don’t even use. So IMO not financial problem it’s management problem which in most cases the BIG problem? Maybe somebody at top of food chain needs to be fired cause not only golf it’s bleeds to other activities. Money there management not IMO.

I don't know the precise percentage of total number of golf holes that are way below acceptable. It seems to me that it's a lot. The executive course that is in good shape is a rarity. I'd say less than 10%.

I agree with you that just throwing more money into it might not be an effective answer. What we do know is that some courses are good, some are bad, and the climate is the same for all. And a bigger point I'm presenting is that whether or not you actually play golf, you have a vested interest in the condition of the courses.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I should have been more clear about my concern. I agree with you in that the developer will do what needs to be done to keep selling new houses in new villages. What I meant to express was a question on how deteriorating conditions in the established areas, where most of the courses are, might negatively impact the values, say, north of 44, or between the 6s.

As ownership of the executive courses turns over from the developer to the districts, their maintenance becomes the property owners' responsibility. As the next decade goes by, and those of us in the older established villages age, and maybe age out of TV, we will be more and more in competition with the new developments. If our amenities look old and untended, be they rec centers, pools, golf courses, landscaping etc. we will lose that competition, and badly.

I wondered the same thing, before I bought in TV. I don't worry so much anymore, as I understand the Developer's business model much better.

What happens in other areas of TV (older vs new), reflects on the community as a whole. Looking at TV from the outside looking in, there is no "south" or "north". It's all The Villages. The Developer knows this and will protect his best interests, without regard to new vs old (I think). The CDD's generally do what the Developer wants done. Drive around the Glenview area and see how that "older section" has "deteriorated".

My take on the subject, is here: FL Senate Bill 280 heads to DeSantis to sign

[pokeefe45@aol.com]

I agree with the premise that 'course' conditions will eventually affect, adversely our property values. And I also would agree that positive course conditions will affect them positively. Which means that -all social media 'noise' aside-most of us are benefiting from golf courses in our general community area-not all-but most of us. What's not been discussed much is the management of the courses, and the different companies that handle them. 'El Nino' didn't just appear between 466 and 466A-it didn't skip Marion County or south of 44-it happened everywhere-It's how the different landscape management companies reacted is where I believe the difference lies. Some courses are managed by 'ASG'-some by 'DTE' and some directly by employees of TV (there may be others in the mix I'm not aware of). I don't have specific knowledge of which ones-but generally do know/think that one company managed most of the courses between the '6's', and also most of the ones that are suffering the most-whether it's cross contamination, or wrong reaction to conditions or just that those courses share agronomy characteristics that led to the 'fungus' situations-I don't know. What I do know is that there is GREAT awareness by the developer, District Gov and the Exec. and Champ. management about the issue-and everything is and will be done to rectify. The stakes are too high not to correct as soon as possible.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Laker14

I don't know the precise percentage of total number of golf holes that are way below acceptable. It seems to me that it's a lot. The executive course that is in good shape is a rarity. I'd say less than 10%.

I agree with you that just throwing more money into it might not be an effective answer. What we do know is that some courses are good, some are bad, and the climate is the same for all. And a bigger point I'm presenting is that whether or not you actually play golf, you have a vested interest in the condition of the courses.

IMO 90% time it maintenance failure, lack of, or management problem. Which we have no control over. I agree we are not getting or money worth invested. Again that points directly to management.

They get paid same whether they do good job or bad. I still say buck stops at top, whether that be at rec center, district, or main person in charge. It’s same all activities, some (not all) are below standards due to that rec center personnel. Some times it contractors fault also which IMO usually not monitored enough to see if the are doing good job or doing it at all?

I use to play League billiards at certain rec center the table were disgusting dirty and chalk was in bedded in rails and cloth which turns them green in grain. When I brush sweep the table due to chunks of fine chalk on cloth so ball had half way chance going straight I created up dust storm. My hands was green from all chalk dust in table cloth after play every time (kind of like golfers not repair divots)(pool players grinding chalking tips over the table creating most of problems) So, it’s not just golf. Yes sometimes complaining (several) does eliminate a problem for awhile. At that rec center it just came right back after the one time contracted cleaning. The condition of tables disguised me so much I quit.

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I wondered the same thing, before I bought in TV. I don't worry so much anymore, as I understand the Developer's business model much better.

What happens in other areas of TV (older vs new), reflects on the community as a whole. Looking at TV from the outside looking in, there is no "south" or "north". It's all The Villages. The Developer knows this and will protect his best interests, without regard to new vs old (I think). The CDD's generally do what the Developer wants done. Drive around the Glenview area and see how that "older section" has "deteriorated".

My take on the subject, is here: FL Senate Bill 280 heads to DeSantis to sign

I think the area around Glenview and Lopez is wonderful, and Glenview is always in good shape, which underscores my concern. Same climate. Why are those courses nice, and the courses such of 466 generally not?

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I wondered the same thing, before I bought in TV. I don't worry so much anymore, as I understand the Developer's business model much better.

What happens in other areas of TV (older vs new), reflects on the community as a whole. Looking at TV from the outside looking in, there is no "south" or "north". It's all The Villages. The Developer knows this and will protect his best interests, without regard to new vs old (I think). The CDD's generally do what the Developer wants done. Drive around the Glenview area and see how that "older section" has "deteriorated".

My take on the subject, is here: FL Senate Bill 280 heads to DeSantis to sign

What are you insinuating? I don’t see any deteriorated areas in Glenview……..
Why would you even post such drivel?

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

What are you insinuating? I don’t see any deteriorated areas in Glenview……..
Why would you even post such drivel?

I was being facetious. The Glenview area is spectacular ... which is why "deteriorated" was in quotation marks.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by pokeefe45@aol.com

I agree with the premise that 'course' conditions will eventually affect, adversely our property values. And I also would agree that positive course conditions will affect them positively. Which means that -all social media 'noise' aside-most of us are benefiting from golf courses in our general community area-not all-but most of us. What's not been discussed much is the management of the courses, and the different companies that handle them. 'El Nino' didn't just appear between 466 and 466A-it didn't skip Marion County or south of 44-it happened everywhere-It's how the different landscape management companies reacted is where I believe the difference lies. Some courses are managed by 'ASG'-some by 'DTE' and some directly by employees of TV (there may be others in the mix I'm not aware of). I don't have specific knowledge of which ones-but generally do know/think that one company managed most of the courses between the '6's', and also most of the ones that are suffering the most-whether it's cross contamination, or wrong reaction to conditions or just that those courses share agronomy characteristics that led to the 'fungus' situations-I don't know. What I do know is that there is GREAT awareness by the developer, District Gov and the Exec. and Champ. management about the issue-and everything is and will be done to rectify. The stakes are too high not to correct as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by Laker14

I think the area around Glenview and Lopez is wonderful, and Glenview is always in good shape, which underscores my concern. Same climate. Why are those courses nice, and the courses such of 466 generally not?

1st off, ALL championship courses are contracted out for maintenance, except perhaps, Southern Oaks. That will likely be contracted out, when the Developer turns that area over to a CDD.

As for the question of why Glenview is typically in good condition, there are (2) answers.

A. Courses North of 466 (approximately) are operating under a different Water Withdrawal Permit, than the courses south of 466. Different counties. Glenview can use more water (regardless of its source) than Palmer Legends can.

B. The Courses in the North (I believe the contract includes GV, LL & OBG) have a contractor that does a better job than the (2) contractors who maintain the other courses. Unfortunately, the northern contractor has be re-tasked as of 2 months ago and moved to the south to (I believe) handle some issues with Southern Oaks and assist with the new courses under construction.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

I was being facetious. The Glenview area is spectacular ... which is why "deteriorated" was in quotation marks.

The casual reader of TOTV might not get your little game, and if they were looking to buy in that area and now would not. Not a favorable effect to a homeowner selling in Glenview area.

[BrianL99]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

The casual reader of TOTV might not get your little game, and if they were looking to buy in that area and now would not. Not a favorable effect to a homeowner selling in Glenview area.

Then they should go look for themselves and decide.

To paraphrase Forrest Gump, you can't fix stupid.

It is unfortunate that their closest square is not aging well and apparently not a priority. It's why I didn't buy up there.

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by BrianL99

Then they should go look for themselves and decide.

It is unfortunate that their closest square is deteriorating, not aging well and apparently not a priority. It's why I didn't buy up there.

You can't fix stupid.

/////////