As I have mentioned in a previous post, I sent out several email and made several phone calls in my quest to find out why some of our executive course greens are in such poor condition. I have already explained my conversation with Mr Basso. Well I just recieved another email in response to my email to the VCDD customer service center. My message was picked up by Carrie Duckett the supervisor of that agency and forwarded to Sam Wartinbee Director, District Property Management, his message to me is as follows:

Good afternoon,

I just finished looking at the greens with Ed Keene the superintendant for Valley Crest Golf at Amberwood and Oakleigh, I agree that they are not in the best of shape, however they have improved since I looked at them last month. Ed will be lightly verti-cutting them in the next two weeks and then lower the height of cut which will improve the roll of the ball. Regarding the greens at Baseline they are overseeded with rye grass which is much thicker than Poa Triv which we use at The Villages. The reason The Villages uses Poa Triv instead of rye is it will transition better (the Poa Triv dies out and the Bermuda grows) in the spring.
If you have any further concerns or questions please feel free to call me.

Sam Watinbee

Director, District Property Management
352 753 4022


There you have it. In my humble opinion I thought that Mr Basso's answer was more genuine then Mr. Wartinbee's. The greens at the aforementioned two courses have gotten a lot worse in the last month. To state that they have gotten better is just not so. If Mr. Wartinbee would check my past playing schedule he would see that over the last month I have played those courses many times and the only reason that I started this thread is because they and others have gotten much worse over the last thirty days. I will call or email Mr. Wartenbee tomorrow and let my feelings be known. I will keep you posted, or some of you can call him and keep all of us posted.

I agree with you and think that too many people moving in here expect things to be like a private country club.
Yes, the courses could look a lot better........so can my own landscaping!
How many residents have a nice lawn and nice green landscaping right now???
Sure will be glad when around June comes along and most of the whining stops.:clap2:

The thing is, the Villages has advertised itself as a country club, so naturally people expect country club conditions. And the purpose of the overseeding is to keep things nice and green. You could have a green lawn now if you overseeded it.

This is how the Villages advertises the executive golf courses: "The Villages Executive Golf Trail consists currently of 24 (and growing yearly) nine hole courses unique to The Villages. These courses are primarily par 3 holes with the occasional par 4 or par 5. Unlike many “executive courses” outside The Villages, ours are maintained at a high standard. "

This is what they advertise for the championship courses: "Savor the challenge and the variety of nine championship golf courses, each complemented with the dining and amenities you'd expect from a first class resort country club. As a Villages resident - you're automatically a member!"

So when people play golf at a public course like Baseline and find it to be in better condition than our courses here, naturally people are going to complain. We'd be foolish not to.

Anyone
 

Is there anyone who actually believes that once you buy a home in The Villages that Executive golf is free for life? How are the costs associated with maintaining the course, paying the Ambassadors, etc. covered? The question is not if all are paying but how all are paying. It may be in the amenity fees, or some other method of raising revenue but somehow, somewere money is being raised to cover the expenses. I am surprised that in the TOTV notes questions are not raised as to where the revenue comes from and how it is being used?:popcorn:

REH.... it's public information. Exec golf course maintenance is funded by a portion of the amenity fees, the trail fees, guest fees. I've not yet come across a detailed budget from the central CDDs (who manage the amenities) that shows how much is spent on overseeding, funds for Pelican vs Amberwood, etc but there are budget statements that show sources of revenue and broad expense categories.

As has often been stated on this forum, "free for life" is not totally free. Something has to pay for the courses and their maintenance and operation. "Free" yes in that you don't have to pay a fee for each round you play if you walk and you are a resident. In my mind, it's quite a bargain.

Golf
 

I'm still hearing that less seed of a cheaper quality is being used to save $$$$
on the greens and the tee boxes. When you speak to the powers that be, will you please inquire if this is so.

:agree: Good points, Dillywho and Otherbrudda.

This point also adds positively to the discussion, although I personally don't agree. Close to 80,000 people have moved here on the premise of "free golf" and an affordable retirement lifestyle. Undoubtedly "free golf" means "included" in the "affordable lifestyle" fees. The championship courses inside TV and the dozens of courses nearby are easily accessible to residents who are not interested in playing "free golf," with it's self-evident quality differences.

So much for my 2-cents. My larger (3-cent?) comment is that, to me, this is a model thread, thanks to all participants who have discussed and debated, agreed and disagreed, made points and counterpoints, without hostility or personal attacks. Those who felt strongly that changes were needed have taken action. Peeps on all sides of the issues raised have advocated well for their positions.

Here's to more discussions like this...
:beer3:

Thanks PTurner for your comments. The only post that I thought was rude, was off target, and I do not believe that voicing a concern in a civil manner should be described as " Whining " Too bad, but I surrender!!!!

Over and out.

I have to ask, where are you hearing this?

Never Said
 

Villages07..I did not say nor imply that it was not a bargin or is a bargin and hopefully that is understood. There would have to be a lot more details to make that judgement. If you own a home in The Villages you pay an amenity fee regardles whether you walk or ride and allegedly part of these fees go to maintain and cover the costs of the Executive Courses.. I am completely happy living in The Villages but that does not mean I have lost looking at the accuracy of reports and questioning the accuracy.:wave:

When I spoke with Mr. Basso, I brought that up, and he said it was being investigated. He said The Villages has certain standards about how much seed has to be put down in the overseeding process, but reading between the lines, the companies that do it may have skimped. They are analyzing all the data. Obviously some courses are in better shape than others, and some are maintained by different companies. Basso appears to be on top of things. the proof will be in the pudding next winter.

I am sure the frigid weather this winter did not help with the condition of the greens and T's on both the Execs and Championship courses. As far as the Execs are concerned....i know first hand...that if the golfers would sand fill a divit or repair a ball make on a green once in awhile, the courses would be in much better condition and maybe sinking a putt would not be luck after having to bounce over all the unrepaired ball marks. Contrary to what at times appears to be the popular belief, these types of course repairs are the golfers responsibility, not OneSource or the Ambassador.

:agree: Please, let's all fix our divots and ball marks!

Of course as every avid golfer knows, or should know. If you love playing golf then you need to have good course manners. It is your responsibility to rake traps, fill divots and repair ball marks. We should all take good care of the courses for our fellow golfers and for the love of the game.

I have read all the posts on this thread, some stuck to the subject matter " The executive course greens " some were off. Like talking about fairways and then the Championship courses but most stuck to the issue.

I do not expect to go out on our exec courses and find greens like Augusta National or Pebble beach. All I ask for is playable greens. It breaks my heart when I finally hit one on the dance floor and watch my putt bounce up and down and then make a left turn after hitting a clump of weeds.

I am no expert, nor do I pretend to be. I do not believe that anyone of us on this thread are. That said however, no matter what comments were made here, I had the privilege to speak to the real expert. The Superintendant of Golf Operations in The Villages Mr. Todd Basso. Much to my surprise, he agreed with me that some of our greens are in deplorable condition. He was man enough to admit that the weather was bad but, the maintenace was worse. He said how sorry he was and he would see to it that it would never happen again. This man has gained my respect and I take him at his word. I look forward to much better playing conditions in the future.

All we can ask for is accountability. Thanks.

Can a divot club be created
 

Is it possible to create a club that would walk a few fairways at the end of the day an fill the divots with seed and sand, repair ball marks on greens. With instruction such volunteerism would be appreciated by course management .

Hole Changes
 

It may be appropriate for the person who moves the holes, (hopefully each day) that they also spend a few minutes checking divots and repairing them.
Also, expand the Ambassador's responsibility to check and repair divots. That is probably the best fix to the problem and it is not unusual to have this responsibility given to the Rangers or in this case Ambassadors.:)

As Russ says all we ask for is some accountability.
Fix your own ball marks and divots!

:agree:Kinda goes along with the signage we had up at work in our break area: "Your mother does not work here....clean up after yourself."

Absolutely!!!

And rake the mess you made in the sand trap.

Great idea. I have a friend who is a Disney castmember. He used to work at Osprey Ridge. He told me that every day, after the last foursome of the day was off the first tee and out of sight, a number of Osprey Ridge castmembers were given carts and lots of divot mix and they were tasked to fill every divot they cound find.

Disney courses are not perfect, but they are pretty darn nice.

Dirigo

Fixing yours, and at least one other, would go a long way towards improving course conditions.

That's what my foursome does (not that course superintendent ever notices or says thanks).

Dirigo

Amen...

I'm always very diligent about repairing ball marks, my own and others I see, and once about a year or so ago, after repairing a number of ball marks out at Orange blossom, one of the course rangers gave me a gift certificate that said something about being courteous golfer on it. I think it was for around $5. I thought that was a nice gesture.

Ball Marks !!!
 

Many years ago following the Buick Open at Grand Blanc Michigan I had the opportunity to play three holes of golf with the The King , Arnold Palmer ,,,
First thing I noticed was how many ball marks he repaired on the greens...Thats when I decided that if the King can do it , then so can I ...from that day forward I fix every one I find..........

fumar with a repair tool:coolsmiley:

a lot of good suggestions here. if i am waiting on the tee i always open the divot box and fill as many divots as i can while waiting for the group ahead to clear, it beats standing there just watching the group ahead, and i also repair every ball mark i see on a green, only takes a couple seconds....gn

a tee suggestion
 

How about geting them to install some sand bottles on the tees. Visible and handy sand bottle might get used.

Executive course maintenance
 

I understand some of your concerns....I have a personal friend that works as an ambassador and starter on 4 of the finest executive courses in TV and he assures me that the same group maintains the executive courses as do the championship courses and there are no measures taken than do not apply to all of the courses.

There are several of factors that figure into some of the greens' conditions. The number of players on the executive courses fill up practically every t-time available, which leads to some deterioration....they get a lot of play. Too, a lot of the players on the executive courses are not "experienced" and do not know how to properly take care of their courses. Also, the executive courses receive an inordinate number of "seasonal residents" as well as renters, who don't appreciate their responsibility of take care of the courses and, unfortunately, some who just don't care. Nonetheless, we want to do everything possible to provide you with beautiful courses that are enjoyable to play.

All of the employees of the Golf Management Systems (the personnel that work at the courses) take pride in our courses and will do all we can to see that our golf-guests have an enjoyable round of golf. Our mission is: TO PROVIDE THE FRIENDLIEST GOLF AND COUNTRY CLUB EXPERIENCE IN THE WORLD. If we do not live up to that commitment, we want to know about it. Report poor course conditions to the club professional and maybe something can be done to improve them. If something can be done, it will be done.

Enjoy TV golf courses....they are there for only one purpose...for your enjoyment.

I play both Executive and Championship courses. The greens are in terrible shape on ALL courses. Generally, the traps are better on Championship because players tend to rake them better.

I am barely on the edge of this threads subject line and proceeding gently..... but here goes.... :laugh:

Just so I understand your rating system versus mine for future posts. Does the comment about the greens include Tierra recently?

I played Briarwood today and all of the greens were sanded. I think it is a start to getting the greens back in shape after this lousy winter.

Looking over at Walnut Grove it looked like they were sanded also.

The easiest and best way to voice your concerns about the conditions of TV golf courses is to fill out your owners survey. Be sure to list all of your complaints (concerns).

The district maintenance managers are well aware of the problems on the golf course. They have virtually no control over the course conditions. The major concern of the Golf Management Systems, is the loss of potential tee times. No major repairs will be started until late March. After March we all can look forward to the annual reseeding of all the greens in TV. Oh Joy.

check previous posts, i think tony basso is the point person, do a search...gn

Executive Golf Course
 

They did an excellent job on the Chula Golf Course, I think it is time to bite the bullet and close Mira Mesa until you get it in playing condition. I know you will probably get a lot of complaints from golfers, but it is really in bad shape and needs to be close for as long as it takes. Greens are in terrible shape, no markings on the Tees on some of the holes, in general the entire course is a wreck.

thank you for listening.

Jackcis, thanks for your post. I encourage you to call 753-3396 and ask for Mr. Basso, who is the Golf Operations Manager for the Villages and let him know your concerns. Others on this forum have done so. I've played Mira Mesa in the past, and agree with you. I love the layout, but it is in terrible condition. We can voice our complaints here, but it doesn't really do much good other than allowing ourselves to vent. We, as players, need to let golf course Management know, so they can fix things. Beartracks, BB14616, and myself have called Mr. Basso in the past, and you know how it works, the squeaky wheel gets noticed. Thanks!