[beartrack]

I was just listening to The Villages radio station. The talk show host and the golf pro from Arnold Palmer Golf course were discussing the condition of the course's greens. The pro was saying that they were in pristine condition and that they were lightning fast because they have been double cut. I have a question that I hope that some of you more experienced golfers can answer for me.

Yesterday I played one of my favorite exec. course's, Amberwood. All I can say about that course is that it is a wonderful and challenging course except for the greens. They are in horrible condition. So bad in fact that even a short putt would be no more then a lucky stroke. I find that many of our exec. have similar problems albeit not as bad.

My question is: If they can keep the Champion course greens in such good condition, then why not the same conditions at the exec. course's?

[Regor]

Do you pay an "Extra" $30+ to play the executive courses? You do on the championship courses. Plus another $1000 priority per year.

[ajbrown]

Originally Posted by beartrack

I was just listening to The Villages radio station. The talk show host and the golf pro from Arnold Palmer Golf course were discussing the condition of the course's greens. The pro was saying that they were in pristine condition and that they were lightning fast because they have been double cut. I have a question that I hope that some of you more experienced golfers can answer for me.

Yesterday I played one of my favorite exec. course's, Amberwood. All I can say about that course is that it is a wonderful and challenging course except for the greens. They are in horrible condition. So bad in fact that even a short putt would be no more then a lucky stroke. I find that many of our exec. have similar problems albeit not as bad.

My question is: If they can keep the Champion course greens in such good condition, then why not the same conditions at the exec. course's?

I have not been on the execs lately and I have not played Palmer for a month+.

Lightning fast in TV means they are running at 8

I played Tierra and Havana (Kenya/Hemingway) this weekend. The greens are ..... ok... say 7 of 10, but pristine would be an overstatement . As I said, I have not been on Palmer for a bit, so cannot comment there...

Tierra's greens were better on average than Havana.

I have said before I think this winter has really affected the course conditions. Conditions will vary from course to course quite a bit exec or championship, so because Amberwood is having issues, does not mean that Pelican is...

I did however get to play in shorts with no stocking hat or turtle neck. I cannot remember how many times I said "WOW it is nice out". I do not remember once saying " I wish the greens were better"

[golf2140]

The pro at Palmer would say it's a beautiful day in the middle of a hurricane!!!!!

[Bogie Shooter]

The number of players on the exec's is far greater than on any of the champion courses. Add to that the sub freezing temps we have had....we are lucky to have grass!

[beartrack]

I did not ask my question to create a problem. Regor is telling us that if we pay more we would have better greens. Sorry regor but, I pay what is asked of me. The course conditions, in my humble opinion, are the result of poor maintenance.

Played at Baseline the other day and the greens were fine. I can't understand why the weather conditions would affect one green more then another. I also do not understand why it sometimes takes five shots to get there

[Regor]

But don't you feel that if they had more money, they could spend more to keep the greens in better shape? I have almost always noted that if I pay $100 for a round of golf, the course is generally in better condition than say a course where I pay $15 or so.

If instead of free golf, I feel that The Villages could have much better course conditions if they charged an additional fee for golf on the executive courses.

[Halle]

Originally Posted by Regor

But don't you feel that if they had more money, they could spend more to keep the greens in better shape? I have almost always noted that if I pay $100 for a round of golf, the course is generally in better condition than say a course where I pay $15 or so.

If instead of free golf, I feel that The Villages could have much better course conditions if they charged an additional fee for golf on the executive courses.

Please No additional cost. I would rather play for the cost of my monthly amenities fee then have an extra fee to have the courses in better condition. The courses work great for me and I love the "Free Golf".



Double Par Halle

[BB14616]

Please don't assume that all the Championship courses are in good condition. It just is not so. I played Orange Blossom a couple of weeks ago and it was horrible. Their greens used to be the best around, since the course is mature, but no longer. I happened to play with a fellow who personally knows the crew chief from OneSource who maintains the course, and apparently the chief was told to cut back this year on the overseeding(the courses are overseeded with rye in the winter. The rye is cold hardy, and gives us green fairways, greens and teeboxes in the winter when the bermuda or whatever the undergrass is, goes dormant). You really can see it on OB - the greens and fairways look like they have the measles - little spots of rye on the dormant undergrass. Mallory is in okay condition - I'd give it a 6 out of 10. Hacienda is pretty good but there are some bare spots on the greens, Cane is pretty good - maybe an 8 out of 10. Palmer charges the premium greens fees and they put the potential home buyers out there so they're going to keep up the conditions of that golf course. If you notice, other greens on golf courses in the area are in better condition than those in The Villages, and they have all experienced the frost. As the guy from OneSource said, if they had been overseeded properly, the frost would not be much of a factor. I noticed that the practice putting green at Sarasota is in fine shape, so they must have overseeded it properly, and obviously it wasn't hurt by the frost.

I think OneSource cut back on the overseeding to save some money, and I hope to heck someone is keeping an eye on them.

Another maintenance issue I noticed the other day was out at Lopez. I don't remember which hole it was, but I was in a greenside bunker and the sand was completely filled with little pebbles, probably one about every 2-3 inches. That is a real no no. You can damage your club, and you can't hit the sand before the ball - you'll hit a pebble instead. They must have gotten a cheap load of sand somewhere. The other bunkers were fine, and I've never noticed that problem anywhere else in The Villages, but again, possibly another cost cutting measure. The Villages pays OneSource to maintain these courses, and if they do a crummy job, we need to either let them know, or else find another company that can do a better job.

I don't play Executive golf so I can't comment on the conditions, but this place is advertised as a golfing community. If they don't maintain the courses, our properties will lose value to communities that have nice courses. I'm a golfer, and frankly, if all the courses are going to be like this, I will be moving. I don't think it is a question of us paying more - I think it is a question of having OneSource do the job they are already paid to do. The sad thing is - if you let things go, it becomes harder to get them back in good shape. Kind of lilke maintaining your house - if you keep at it and do the upkeep its much easier than having to replace things down the road. Sorry if I seem grumpy - I love The Villages and the golf here has been wonderful, but I'm really disappointed in the conditions this year.

[schotzyb]

Originally Posted by beartrack

I was just listening to The Villages radio station. The talk show host and the golf pro from Arnold Palmer Golf course were discussing the condition of the course's greens. The pro was saying that they were in pristine condition and that they were lightning fast because they have been double cut. I have a question that I hope that some of you more experienced golfers can answer for me.

Yesterday I played one of my favorite exec. course's, Amberwood. All I can say about that course is that it is a wonderful and challenging course except for the greens. They are in horrible condition. So bad in fact that even a short putt would be no more then a lucky stroke. I find that many of our exec. have similar problems albeit not as bad.

My question is: If they can keep the Champion course greens in such good condition, then why not the same conditions at the exec. course's?

I would think that I am not as knowledgeable as a Club Pro but one thing for sure, my definition of pristine is not even close to his definition. Fast, yes, because the grass is so thin on the greens it is like putting on plain dirt. Whenever you see "black" thru the grass then the grass is too thin. These greens are anything but pristine. I play the various Championship courses 3 times weekly and these greens are worse than Hacienda Hills , Mallory Hill or Cane Garden.

[waynet]

I'm coming down in March to buy but not if the golf courses are as bad as they are. It is a golf community and with out good greens the place will be in trouble.This really should be looked into.I was down last October and the greens and golf courses were in really good shape. It's what got me to return. Renters not just buyers will be affected.

[beartrack]

waynet and bb14616 are making my point much better then I did. They basically said all the things that I was thinking when I started this thread. It was the great "free" golf that enticed us to buy here and I am sure the same could be said for thousands of other folks that live here or will live here in the future. This golf amenity is advertised and promoted by the developer. It is not something that was demanded by the residents. I think that the developer should be congratulated for the wonderful lifestyle here. All I am pointing out is one flaw. Simply stated, One Source or whoever is responsible for the maintenance of the greens, needs to do a better job. Our golf experience here and our property values depend on it.

[Thnonne]

The golf is free on the executive courses, they are challenging layouts with some beautiful scenery. The greens change from excellent to just okay, like championship courses. Our amenity fees pay for these courses and I feel we are getting our money's worth considering the price FREE! I live in a retirees paradise, many free (due to our amenity fee) activities. PLEASE DO NOT SUGGEST CHARGING FOR THESE ACTIVITIES!!!

[Whatever]

My thought is that there is less seeding per sq. ft. and may even be a cheaper variety of seed. Unless we make our gripes known to the powers that be, nothing will be done. I'm glad to see that word is getting out to prospective buyers as this may have an impact on the companys that do the course maintenance. (and that includes the execs). In turn the developer may find it useful to get more involved in this issue.

[GatbTester]

We all have specific complaints regarding the quality of grass, quality of seeding, etc. My area of specific complaint is in regards to the Ball Washers at almost every hole, they contain the filthiest, non soapy water you can imagine. It is terrible to use when cleaning your golf balls, as well as the lousy towels they use. Call them what you will. They lack the little touches that make big differences to me.