[villagerjack]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

While pursuing a class action suit seems like what is needed, it would drag on for years and years, with lawyers on both sides getting paid, while you sit with a roof full of bad shingles and ceiling leakage waiting to happen.

I would immediately file a small claims court action, with no need for an attorney on your part. Heads roll when the defendant companies have to send in their lawyers that quickly cost more money than the actual claim (roofing labor costs) is worth.

Here's Sumter County's web page on that:
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts

Thank you. I am considering that a a course of action. Appreciate your comment.

[twinklesweep]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

While pursuing a class action suit seems like what is needed, it would drag on for years and years, with lawyers on both sides getting paid, while you sit with a roof full of bad shingles and ceiling leakage waiting to happen.

I would immediately file a small claims court action, with no need for an attorney on your part. Heads roll when the defendant companies have to send in their lawyers that quickly cost more money than the actual claim (roofing labor costs) is worth.

Here's Sumter County's web page on that:
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts

I have experienced the effectiveness of using Small Claims Court up north; by and large it was simple, cost effective (very small filing fee), and best of all successful. In one instance, an attorney became so interested in the case that she took it on based solely on a percentage settlement, so again I had no legal fees to pay upfront; they came out of the settlement.

Before undertaking a class action suit, which can be costly and, as pointed out, can drag on for years, the roofing problems ARE the issue of individuals (as opposed to a collective problem). If enough individuals file small claims, it could provoke Owens Corning to accept its responsibility, since from what I've read here it appears that the relevant departments in TV are not standing behind the residents, even though TV sold the homes with the defective roofs.

[PennBF]

It is sad that an Organization that is totally managed by Volunteers in the The Villages get so little appreciation from "some" of the residents. To clarify some of the assertions in some comments. How many know the POA was awarded $40M in a law suit because The Villages Management ignored the fact that a Rec Center was falling apart and when it came time to fix it The Village management said money had not been set aside to take care of it the Property. THe courts did not award $40M for being innocent! Is it "negative" to remind the residents of history so they do not live it again. The best prediction of the future is the history of the past. When it comes to being negative to remind the residents of the high number of Golf Cart accidents it is a classic case of not wanting to hear the bad news and risks! We have over 40,000 carts in TV's and should be aware of the problems. Why not report them for awarness? Is it negative to remind all of the dangers of ignoring cart safety. I think not. Oh yea, THE SHINGLES. We happen to be one of those who had bad shingles and Owens Corning said they would pay the 35-40% costs of the shingles and we would have to pay the 60% of the costs of labor to remove and replace them. Is it fair to report that a Contractor signed by TV's shipped, installed a defective product and passed on about 60% of the cost to repair the bad product to the home owner? Why does anyone want this stuffed under the rug other than those who don't care about the ones who are being abused.? Regarding the coment that the Developer is not responsible for what happens in the villages..Just plain not true since all key Management is the result of thier appointment. Not fiction..Just true. There is a host of other comments we would like to make but those that have decided the facts are to be hidden if they are negative will most likely not change their minds. One point to close. Does everyone relaize that the Warranty Dept of The Villages had records which pointed out the shingles which were suspect and could have notified the appropriate resident but elected to not
tell anyone and only react if a resident called. As a result quite a few could not meet the Warranty period requirement. Guess this is a negative and should not be mentioned? YOU GO POA..KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK AND DON'T BE DISCOURAGED BY NAY SAYERS.!!:

[duffysmom]

Originally Posted by eweissenbach

How did this become about Gary Morse? The Villages is designed, developed, built and managed by a complex array of corporations owned, controlled, or influenced by the Morse family. The day to day decisions are made by Gary Morse's children and other officers of the various corporations. While I am sure that GM has veto power, he is not like the Wizard of Oz, controlling all that happens in TV. That said like most corporations, they make decisions designed to further the aims of the company and make profits, which may or may not be in the best interest of all residents. That is where the POA comes in, to be the watchdog for the benefit of the residents. Why anyone not connected with the Morse corporations would want to see the POA go away, or be quiet, is beyond me. If some of their rhetoric is harsh so be it, go to the meetings and register your displeasure, but keep in mind they are your ombudsmen. While the Scwartz/Morse clan has created a retirement Mecca like no other, they have not done it out of altruism, and have and will continue to make mistakes.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Beautifully said as well as fair and balanced.

[justjim]

I believe everyone has had their say----some excellent observations and informed opinions and some not so much! The POA is what it is and the VHA is what it is----checks and balances.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by twinklesweep

I have experienced the effectiveness of using Small Claims Court up north; by and large it was simple, cost effective (very small filing fee), and best of all successful. In one instance, an attorney became so interested in the case that she took it on based solely on a percentage settlement, so again I had no legal fees to pay upfront; they came out of the settlement.

Before undertaking a class action suit, which can be costly and, as pointed out, can drag on for years, the roofing problems ARE the issue of individuals (as opposed to a collective problem). If enough individuals file small claims, it could provoke Owens Corning to accept its responsibility, since from what I've read here it appears that the relevant departments in TV are not standing behind the residents, even though TV sold the homes with the defective roofs.

It's interesting that, of all the lawyers advising, leading and defending the POA members and residents in the settled lawsuit and on current issues, none of these lawyers has apparently advised roof owners to use the less expensive "people's court" option of Small Claims Court actions they could file without a lawyer's fees. But then, the lawyers' past and future legal fee potential would be much less if all individual homeowners took their own roofing cases en masse to "the people's court".

"A Small Claims case is a legal action filed in county court to settle minor legal disputes among parties where the dollar amount involved is $5,000 or less, excluding costs, interest, and attorney fees. Because Small Claims court is considered a "people's court," it is not necessary to have an attorney to file a claim. Forms to file a small claims case are available at the County Civil Department at the Clerk's Office and here on our website. Attorneys are not precluded from this court, but are not required."
Small Claims - Sumter County Clerk of the Courts

"...The case concluded last week in Lake County, where Circuit Judge Lawrence Semento approved a settlement agreement that requires the developer to pay about $40 million over the next 13 years to replenish accounts used to maintain facilities and pay pool monitors, after-hours golf ambassadors and Neighborhood Watch staff.

The settlement also requires the defendants to pay $50,000 each to Dreidame and four other named plaintiffs and $6.7 million to the plaintiffs' brother-sister legal team, Dougald McMillan and Carol McMillan Anderson."

Villages developer to pay $40 million for recreation upgrades to settle a lawsuit - Orlando Sentinel

[PennBF]

It should be added that yes Elaine + 4 others did receive $50K as part of the settlement. What was omitted was that (a) each of these person(s) put up the funds to file the suit and took the risk on behalf of the residents. (b) As a result of them taking the risk the residents won $40M to put the rec center back to what it should be and to perform other actions in support of the residents with the remaing funds, (e.g. redo carts paths, etc.etc.). How many residents were willing to use personal funds to support their neighbors with no assurance they would get their investments back.

[graciegirl]

///

[Advogado]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your https://www.talkofthevillages.com/fo...ath.gifLawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf

Is there anything in the POA Bulletin that is untrue? If not, what is your complaint?

In most instances, the interests of the Developer and those of the residents coincide. However, when they do not, the Developer, has from time to time, tried to do some pretty outrageous things to the residents to further his own interests. Some of those things have been listed in several of the posts above, as well as in the latest POA Bulletin that you criticize. (I would add to that list the Developer's subsidization of his front organization, the VHA, in a partially successful attempt to weaken the POA.) In the situations where the Developer has behaved badly, we have been very fortunate to have the POA. To deny that fact is to shut ones eyes to the reality of the history of this place.

We may also have a real need for the POA in the not-too-distant future. Ask yourself what happens to our amenity system if the IRS prevails in its dispute with the Center Districts/Developer or we have a huge increase in the minimum wage, as is being proposed in Congress. If either possibility materializes, there would be a real risk to the continued financial viability of the amenity system, and somebody (the Developer or the residents) is going to have to make up the shortfall to keep the system going. In that case, we will count ourselves lucky to have the POA to represent our interests. In fact, we will have no one else to do so.

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

This month's POA Bulletin was on our counter, and I don't remember it standing out for being as negative--and even venomous--as this month's edition does.

In huge print the front-page headline reads: 2012-2013 Golf Cart Related Fatalities and Serious Injuries in The Villages

Then, underscored in a blue box above the fold it says in all caps: "Your Lawsuit Settlement Dollars at Work".

Below that is "Owens Corning Defective Shingles Update"

Beside that is POA Meeting announcement with the topic in large print: "Sinkhole and Golf Cart Insurance Things You Need to Know".

And the ugliness goes on from there. Now. I'm not saying these are not valid topics nor that the Daily Fun is all one needs to read here.

What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe.

http://poa4us.org/bulletins_files/bulletin201402.pdf

These are very serious issues and we all benefitted by the POA playing a huge part in the solutions. It's not their axe to grind, it's yours and they are doing it for you. Do you kniow why the law suit even came about, and the resulting major improvements that have occured ??

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by rubicon

Let me get this straight some folks here believe the raison deter for organizing the POA was solely because they desired to spew negativity and hatred toward the Developer...that's your position. You cite as evidence negative stories such as golf Cart accident stats, continuation of the facts surrounding the amenity lawsuit, et al.

Those of you who do might take time to go back on the history of why the POA was organized and follow through to present day rather than take comfort in your confirmation bias because the POA saved your bacon more than once. The POA attempted several times to work with both the Developer and the VHA and their attempts were directed out of hand. Why because the Developer knew they would work to keep him to satisify the promises he made and to honor his responsibilities.

In essence the POA was an invention made out of necessity

If you believe that the aforementioned headlines cited by the OP are negative for the sake of negativity then those with that thought ought not to read a single newspaper, watch a single TV news program or listen to a single radio news broadcast because if golf Cart Accident statistics get your goat what is happening to you with some of the political and economic headlines for the last 10 years. Are those stories negatively created by their writers for the sake of negativity?

I find it incredulous that people have this perception of the POA and feel badly for those in leadership at the POA who have worked so hard on residents behalf only to be besmirched, ridiculed and unfairly judged.

I have been in disagreement with some issues handled by the POA but at least they cared enough to attempt a resolution

Rubicon, you have it exactly right. I bet those that are getting new roofs, AC lines, rec center upgrades, replaced siding and the such would not see much negative in the POA paper.

[Warren Kiefer]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I don't. But I also have a real problem with an entire group of people who think that being successful and becoming rich automatically makes you a bad person. This is the first time in my life that I have run into that attitude and I think it is just as wrong as thinking that all poor people are lazy.


I don't know Gary Morse at all but he is a couple of years older than me and by damn the man is a genius and he could have made a heck of a lot more money off of us if he was as suspect as some think he is.


I see a lot more evidence that he is an American success story and he certainly has built a place on this earth like no one has ever seen before.


Count your money, Gary, You deserve every last penny.


I am really. really, really angry.

You have blinded yourself to a couple of facts. The Villages was not built by a genius, he simply got the opportunity to use the CDD provisions to his benefit. You also should realize he is not the only person to build such a place. Disney was able to use the same CDD laws to build his empire. I will say that I actually saw Harold Schwartz in the community, I have never laid eyes on Gary Morse.

[ilovetv]

Originally Posted by Advogado

Is there anything in the POA Bulletin that is untrue? If not, what is your complaint?

In most instances, the interests of the Developer and those of the residents coincide. However, when they do not, the Developer, has from time to time, tried to do some pretty outrageous things to the residents to further his own interests. Some of those things have been listed in several of the posts above, as well as in the latest POA Bulletin that you criticize. (I would add to that list the Developer's subsidization of his front organization, the VHA, in a partially successful attempt to weaken the POA.) In the situations where the Developer has behaved badly, we have been very fortunate to have the POA. To deny that fact is to shut ones eyes to the reality of the history of this place.

We may also have a real need for the POA in the not-too-distant future. Ask yourself what happens to our amenity system if the IRS prevails in its dispute with the Center Districts/Developer or we have a huge increase in the minimum wage, as is being proposed in Congress. If either possibility materializes, there would be a real risk to the continued financial viability of the amenity system, and somebody (the Developer or the residents) is going to have to make up the shortfall to keep the system going. In that case, we will count ourselves lucky to have the POA to represent our interests. In fact, we will have no one else to do so.

If you had actually read all of my comments on this thread, you would have seen and realized that it was not the issues mentioned (about which I agree with the POA), but the "tabloid, sensationalized layout" that "is scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they made the worst mistake of their lives by buying/coming here".

Also, never once did I say the POA should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. Nor did I ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article I linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of David against Goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much.

I did, however, say that NOW, the lawyers for the POA are at least allowing--if not not promoting--the possibility of a class action suit for the homeowners' labor costs of re-roofing with Owens-Corning-provided new replacement shingles......when the individual homeowners could quickly and efficiently file a Small Claims action for these costs, without paying hefty lawyer fees and without waiting years to get relief.

Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts.

[Bogie Shooter]

[Easyrider]

Originally Posted by ilovetv

If you had actually read all of my comments on this thread, you would have seen and realized that it was not the issues mentioned (about which I agree with the POA), but the "tabloid, sensationalized layout" that "is scaring newcomers and new buyers into thinking they made the worst mistake of their lives by buying/coming here".

Also, never once did I say the POA should not exist, nor that they were wrong in the class action lawsuit about rightly making the developer do what he was supposed to do for our community facilities. Nor did I ever say that lawyers and the leaders of the lawsuit filing should not be paid. I agree with the article I linked above from the time of the judges' decision, saying this was "a case of David against Goliath". I'd be the first to say "sometimes you have to fight fire with fire"......and sometimes you have to fight the big guys' lawyers with lawyers getting paid just as much.

I did, however, say that NOW, the lawyers for the POA are at least allowing--if not not promoting--the possibility of a class action suit for the homeowners' labor costs of re-roofing with Owens-Corning-provided new replacement shingles......when the individual homeowners could quickly and efficiently file a Small Claims action for these costs, without paying hefty lawyer fees and without waiting years to get relief.

Sometimes opponents purposely miss the point in order to promote theirs, and that has happened in this thread with some of the accusations made or implied about my posts.

QUOTE: Original Post

"What I keep asking myself about this group and editor is, "If TV is so terrible, why do they continue to LIVE here????"

To me it seems like they're looking for a new/different axe to grind. And the developer is always here to hate and loathe."



Sounds a little like the POA should not exist to me?

Always heard you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Trying to sugar coat the truth won't get a response from OC or any other matter where nothing is being done. Sometimes knowing the aggrieved party is willing to go to these lengths is what it takes to make the process move along. I would say if my roof or your roof was defective we would see things a lot differently.

As a new perspective resident I was more than happy to know there was an organization here looking out for the residents interests and I was directly helped by the extension of the AC line set warranty to 10 years. After all The Villages is just another big business selling it's product just like any other business. Sometimes businesses don't always follow the rules with which they agreed and someone has to remind them of that fact.

I would say the POA would be open to anyone's help if someone feels the need to do so. Complaining about the POA and bashing their practices here will likely not change a thing.