Originally Posted by Marathon Man

Sorry. But I was lost with the opening statement. Not a good way to get me onboard.

"How much money do you waste on designer items or tickets to sporting events or even expensive cars but you refuse to pay a few more dollars to pay the first responders? The people who come day and night when you have a medical emergency or are in an accident, or set your house on fire or have to respond to a shooting or bombing. Really people?"

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by fw102807

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

Your thoughts and feelings are good. Best of luck.

[kcrazorbackfan]

Originally Posted by fw102807

I've already been told I don't belong in politics. Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, most people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, [COmost people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. LOR="Magenta"][/COLOR] My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

That isn't an option in this instance. She has been told by many of us that we are supportive of an increase, but in a CDD form of government, it doesn't come to a vote. She isn't helping this cause, which she says no longer affects her directly, as she is the wife a retired Fireman. Talking about minimum wage to a group of people who have lived very carefully, for the most part, saved and sacrificed themselves, also worked long hours or two jobs,doesn't win sympathy. We may NOT have walked in the footsteps of first responders but we have lived long enough that we don't have to have a house fall on us to understand a situation. Many of us have uncles, brothers, sisters, and friends who are in Law Enforcement or EMS or Firefighters. We get it. We really do understand. There is no need to stir the pot and make us feel as if we are adversaries, when we are not.

[Marathon Man]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

That isn't an option in this instance. She has been told by many of us that we are supportive of an increase, but in a CDD form of government, it doesn't come to a vote. She isn't helping this cause, which she says no longer affects her directly, as she is the wife a retired Fireman. Talking about minimum wage to a group of people who have lived very carefully, for the most part, saved and sacrificed themselves, also worked long hours or two jobs,doesn't win sympathy. We may NOT have walked in the footsteps of first responders but we have lived long enough that we don't have to have a house fall on us to understand a situation. Many of us have uncles, brothers, sisters, and friends who are in Law Enforcement or EMS or Firefighters. We get it. We really do understand. There is no need to stir the pot and make us feel as if we are adversaries, when we are not.

Extremely well said.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by fw102807

Just think it is very sad what they make for saving lives is considered by many as minimum wage.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

I agree with everything you've said. Although there are a LOT of retired Firefighters and Law Enforcement Officers (2 in this family) here in TV, most people do not know what it's like to walk in the shoes of a Firefighters or Law Enforcement Officer; how a lot of these Public Servants have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for their families. My wife and I are fortunate to have made some good investments over the years and are able to help out our son (a KCPD SWAT Team member) and his family from time to time. We are big proponents any time an increase in a tax to fund a raise for these underpaid people comes up for discussion.

I don't think anyone has disagreed that firefighters or EMS deserves more money. The question is what is reasonable. I don't know, and no one has published what are comparative wages for firefighters and EMS personnel in central Florida. You can't compare the cost of living in Kansas City or New Jersey to that of central Florida. If an increase of 5% will put our firefighters or EMS at the top of the pay scale in this area then let's do it. However, without comparative numbers, this discussion is just all emotion.

[GaryW]

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and

[Biker Dog]

Originally Posted by GaryW

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and

AMEN!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by GaryW

Being a Marine I understand just about every post in the forum. I have never understood a few things. Why a service man can be sent to a foreign county, fight for something he may or may not believe in, get shot, a limb blown off or worse. Then come back to the good ole USA, and have to have charities raise money for their medical expenses. I. E Wounded Warriors and so on. NEVER HAVE UNDERSTOOD THAT, NEVER!!

Next would be why teachers make chicken feed except where you work, it may be Hen feed then. Unless you coach footbal, then you make a killing at the expense of the students tuition.

Then you have LEO-FIRE RESCUE. Why?? THese cats deserve what ever we can give them. You call them,, they are there!!! Like the post man. EXCEPT these cats really do show up in all types of weather extremes and conditions. I really do all First Responders. Many of my friends are FHP and local law enforcement. And now my Daughter is attending the Fire Academy for Fire-EMT. Now I understand even more what they do. All I can say for my daughter and all that are First Responders is this Love Ya, and

[blueash]

Originally Posted by Chatbrat

-A fire fighter or policer who puts their lives on the line deserves much better pay than a roofer or a landscaper

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death and estimated 1 million police]

and Firefighters 58

[Chatbrat]

Even IMHO, more important than the $$ is the staffing--2 persons per engine and truck is a joke; how can you do an immediate search for a victim or victims without a charged line prior to making an entry..

4 persons should be the minimum/ 3 is a band aid--in most fires here the primary goal is not to save the structure but prevent it from extending to neighboring structures, the insurance industry most likely doesn't know the staffing of the apparatus inTV

[Nucky]

Cut back on a Palm Tree here and there and give these people a better wage. They deserve it. When I got hit in my cart they were there to help in minutes and deserve our financial support. Give them what they need to do the job properly. Within reason.

Originally Posted by blueash

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death and estimated 1 million police]

and Firefighters 58

To me it's about the lives they save. If I have any kind of emergency I don't want to rely on an understaffed dept of rookies.

[Barefoot]

Originally Posted by blueash

Just to keep things in proper perspective. I am not sure why you think a roofer or a landscaper does not put their life on the line.

Here are the death data:
There are about 1.2 million firefighters in the US not including private and federal. There are about 70 deaths per year in that group and more than half are heart attacks or stress and this includes things like a 66 yo who died after 20 mins on a treadmill which is not clearly a job related death. A death rate including all 70 as job related gives 58 per million.

Roofers have a death rate of over 300 per million or more than six times that of firefighters, and 12 times if you don't include sudden death from heart disease.

So if risk of death is going to be brought up as a main criteria then roofers have a much better argument for a huge pay raise.

Landscapers? I don't have data for the workers but I do for the supervisors. Fatality rate of 181 per million on the job, or double that of firefighters.

Do I think our public servants are underpaid, yes. But the risk of firefighting is much lower than many other fields. And the risk in the Villages is certainly lower than in most other departments.

Just FYI here are the highest fatality risk occupations and deaths per million in 2015
Logging 1327
Fishing 548
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 404
Roofers 397
Refuse collection 388 yes the "garbage man" is five times more likely to die doing the job than a firefighter
Iron and steel workers 298
Drivers 243
Farmers 220
Electrical install and repair 205
Supervisors of landscapers 181

Estimating this one
Police 145 [2016 data 145 death and estimated 1 million police]

and Firefighters 58

These statistics show that Firefighters are well trained and well prepared for their job, and have adequate PPE.